Know Thine Enemy: Week 17 - Green Bay Packers

[SuperSpck]

[FONT=&quot]Know Thine Enemy: Week 17 - Green Bay Packers[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
What the what? This isn't Rugby![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yeah... sorry in advance. RBY's on the injury report this week and has asked me to sub in. I'm a huge fan of his weekly thread and while I can't match his skill, I'll offer what I can.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Green Bay Packers: (10-5)[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]

Depth Chart: http://www.nfl.com/teams/greenbaypackers/depthchart?team=GB

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Team Stats:[/FONT] [FONT=&quot] http://www.nfl.com/teams/greenbaypackers/statistics?team=GB

Injuries: http://www.nfl.com/teams/greenbaypackers/injuries?team=GB

Quick Breakdown:
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Packers are on a hot streak. Offensively they're clicking inside their west coast scheme and defensively they're on fire.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Much like the Cardinals, statistically the Packers have benefited from being in the same division as the Bears and the Lions (this parallels the sad Rams and slumped Seahawks).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]At first blush these teams have more in common than they have differently. Playing each other's division is also a good basis for comparison.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Offense:
For fun, let's do a comparative (I'll go light on the Cards commentary, we know us):[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]QB- advantage GB; Rodgers is "in the zone" in a way that few QBs could hope for, not comparing careers, just this season. Rodgers already has 4k yards and 29 TDs to 7 INTs, completing 66% of his passes. He can make all the passes, has strength and touch, and he finds the open man. His tracking chart is ridiculous. Check it here.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Ready for the fun stuff? He leads all NFL QBs in rushing with 280+ yards. Good enough to have the 58th most rushing yards. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]RB- push; I think that Beanie and Timmy combined will better than Grant, Jackson and Green in the future, but for now, their upside is hurt by fumbling and inconsistency. I trust the Cardinal rushing attack more in the redzone.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]WR- advantage AZ; Donald Driver is timeless and underrated, Jennings is explosive, James Jones is an excellent contributor providing valuable depth; speaking of good depth I really liked Jordy Nelson coming out of school and he hasn't disapointed, but there is no team in the league with the depth and star power combination of our Cards.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]TE- advantage GB; they actually target them and design plays to get them the ball. Both Lee and Finley have soft hands. Neither are known for their run blocking ability.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]OL- advantage AZ; yup, even with a backup LT and an... obvious RT (standing out on the line = bad) the Cardinals have had much better overall showing this season than Green Bay. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]NO TEAM IN THE NFL HAS GIVEN UP MORE SACKS THAN THE PACK. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Rodgers has been hit 91 times (3rd most in the league). RT Barbre and LG Colledge have had notoriously bad years. Because of injuries they've had a number of combinations, none of which can be called "working". [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Defense:[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]

DL- push; GB has a deep and talented 3-4 defensive front. Raji did a nice job substituting for Pickett at NT last week and has played both DT and DE this season, the notable upside is that there are a lot of walking wounded with Jenkins, Jolly, and Pickett all being limited, or out, recently.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]LB- advantage GB; they've gotten some fantastic play from their youth movement. Rookies Mathews and Jones (starting for Kampman on IR) have been playing very well, 4th year pro AJ Hawk, while perhaps not living up to his draft status, is active. Barnett continues to be his usual underrated self. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]But, let's take a moment to talk about Chillar, the Cardinal-could-have-been. If you don't pay attention to the team you may not have noticed that because of his exceptional flexibility and all-around good play Chillar was rewarded a 4 year $21 million deal ($7 guaranteed). He's been a spot starter because of injury, contributed on special teams, and has had a very successful season.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In short, he was everything the Cardinals absolutely needed and didn't get.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]DBs- advantage AZ; but like all of these comparisons, it's a heck of a tough call. Right now there may not be a better CB than Charles Woodson, he's a playmaker. The man playing across from him, Tramon Williams, has also had a nice season, but has been injured as of late. Backup CB Michael Bush... has been erratic and can be taken advantage of. SS Atari Bigby has a great name, and can lay serious wood, but still struggles in coverage. In 2005 he turned a lot of heads with great post season play, but disappointed the following year. He's been slightly better this season, but be warned, he may be one of those players who just turns it on when the nation is watching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]FS Nick Collins has good range and can defend the pass nicely. The last two season's he's been a model NFL free safety.[/FONT]

Final Thoughts
[FONT=&quot]So... two probable games in a row? Yeesh. The best thing AZ can do is make it out of this game healthy. Green Bay has a lot of banged up guys and the Cardinals will have a great advantage if they don't lose players in what amounts to a meaningless game.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Don't overlook the GB victory against the Seahawks last week, it was the same team and the same type of game that allowed the Cardinals to build momentum for a playoff push last year.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I hope for something north of vanilla and a game that can build confidence for the Red, a win is an important thing, but fans of both teams should be nervous if they see each other the game after. Who can predict the way either will go?[/FONT]

 

[Catfish]

Waayyyy to go Spck: Wow, what a fill-in. The more I read, the more excited I got. Muffin must surely be proud of you for representin'------I sure am. Good stuff for us to digest here. I was aware that Rogers was decent, but you have put a whole new perspective on things. Wow, what a year he is having. I really like the LB thing they have goin' on there in GB. Maybe in another year, we can have some youth movement here at that spot. I am amxious to see how Davis comes back from injury. That would be a nice start. Thanks for your time and effort. Hey everybody, Muffin has a stand-in----------

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Pfft...you are not the Muffin-Man!

 

[BTP]

The man playing across from him, Tramon Williams, has also had a nice season, but has been injured as of late. Backup CB Michael Bush

Tramon Williams has not been hurt and burnt toast boys name is Jarret Bush. However to give him a little credit he has played better the last three four games. He has a couple of mishaps durning the Steeler game. Sheessus he was bad that game.

 

[SuperSpck]

Tramon Williams has not been hurt and burnt toast boys name is Jarret Bush. However to give him a little credit he has played better the last three four games. He has a couple of mishaps durning the Steeler game. Sheessus he was bad that game.

Thanks for the correction, I'd had it in my head Bush was forced into starting two games recently, but I thought he was subbing for Williams. Now I realize it was probably for Woodson/Harris injuries.

 

[BTP]

Woodson hasnt be injuried either. Bush is our nickel back. Tramon Williams was our nickel back(a very good one at that) and was moved over to starting corner once Al Harris went down. Forcing Jarret Bush to be our nickel back now.

 

[SuperSpck]

Woodson hasnt be injuried either. Bush is our nickel back. Tramon Williams was our nickel back(a very good one at that) and was moved over to starting corner once Al Harris went down. Forcing Jarret Bush to be our nickel back now.

Now I know advanced age is getting to me, for some reason I thought Bush has stared a couple of games. I suppose starting at nickle does count, especially as much as a NCB will see the field, but...

Anyway, as the resident Pack fan, educate us using your perspective!

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Thanx 4 the help S-Spock.

Great write up

 

[DevilDon]

Huh?

I would say you underestimate the Packers, I'm not being disrespectful, but I've been reading this board and everyone is talking about the Cowboys. The Packers nearly shut out the 'Boys until a meaningless TD at the end of the game.
Ryan Grant is ranked 8th, where is your best back? Driver and Jennings have more yards than your two receivers. As for not having the scores, the Packers do it with running backs, receivers, tight ends. Scoring is a team affair.
You also suggest you have a push on the D-line. I really doubt that, with all players healthy, Packers have more power easily. We lead the NFL in interceptions too so it's funny you don't give more respect to Wood and Co. But you're right about that, Bush was rough, but he's turning it around.
There was talk on another thread about fearing Dallas D, Packers have number 2 and number 1 against the run. Good luck, we have NO fear of Dallas, would much rather face them than you guys.
All in all, I love your team and your organization. I love to watch all the ex-Packers do as well as KW.
I am a Packer fan , but if my teams not winning, I'm all for big Red, I love the underdogs. Good luck guys, this is as much fun as a fan can ask for.

 

[SuperSpck]

I think the Packer have a true NT.
The Cards haven't found "the future" there, although I'm as comfortable taking Dockett, Campbell, and Branch in the rotation as I would be with any 3-4 DE's in the NFL.

They have 16 of the team's 42 sacks by themselves. Compare that to the 7 1/2 on your entire line and I'd say that's worthy of a push.

I also understand that not all 3-4 schemes have the same initial responsibilities (penetration vs gap control). In this case it's playing the Cards' strength (line) against weakness (linebackers).

As far as RB's go, while they may not have the output in yardage Grant does, the Cardinals only have 2 less rushing TD's and the league's best Red Zone efficiency.
Your YPC is better, but Grant's isn't without his rough days (MIN, DET, BAL and CIN spring to mind).

We also have to acknowledge that the Packers try harder to run the ball. They've got 50 more attempts than the Cardinals. If anything I'm a little envious of that fact. That commitment helps open up the game.

When looking at receivers and yardage you're looking at the number of "big plays" which the Packers get more of, far and away, but that has as much to do with the QB as it does the WRs. Kurt, compared to Rodgers, is having an off year and hasn't had the chemistry he did last year with his guys (not a bad year, just not as good).

Bottom line, Driver is very good and very underrated and Jennings is solid, but as individual players they are not better than Fitzgerald or Boldin. I love the Packers depth, but I think the Cardinals are as good and can go ridiculously deep if needed.

I called Woodson the best CB in the NFL. That's about as much respect as you can get. I believe in Nick Collins to get the job done and called him a model NFL player. The rest are fine. If Al Harris was in you'd probably get the nod, but he's not.

Tremendous respect to the Packers. Living in Minneapolis, with the crushing number of fairweather nancys, has always giving me a reason to root for the Pack. Good luck, good game.

 

[Second Deck]

It will be interesting to see how both teams play this game. I would think if there is the slightest injury to a player they would sit for this game. Ater the way last years playoffs went I am not sure there is an advantage to having a bye week if the team is heathly.

 

[DevilDon]

I thought you were fair SuperSpck, but you're probably as unfamiliar with our team as I am with yours.
Our D-front with Jolly, Pickett and Jenkins is a formidable group, add in BJ Raji working in relief and I honestly don't think there's a better front in the game, you'll see. Their responsibility is to take on blocks so the LBs can attack. Look at Matthews sack numbers, Jones, Hawk and especially Nick Barnett are devastating, you can now see why we are so stout against the run.
The backfield as you suggest would be far more impressive with Harris, but the safeties are very active, even Bigby has been solid so I don't think we lose much to that injury, you don't hear much about Tramon Williams because he is very good, it's only when you get to the nickels and dimes when we're a little rough, but they are improving.
On offense, it's pretty clear GB has the advantage at RB, I like Wells and I think he might be better some day, just not now. GB had 5 touchdowns from RBs last week. I don't think we work at being a running team as you suggest, we just use what works. We ran very little against Pittsburg.
I'd say a push between your two top receivers against ours, but Jones and Nelson can deliver and when you put Finley (TE) in that group, we get the nod. GB uses him like a third receiver, you will see, he's gonna be a nighmare and a superstar in this league. Add in that our only pass TD last week went to a RB and you can see the Packers are a threat to score form any position, I don't think anybody does it better.
I'll give you the O-line argument all day, but they are better with Tauscher and Clifton back, don't let stats fool you, they were horrible in the early part of the year but much improved.
As for RB, no use arguing that point, your back may be even or better some day, just not now. Ours don't fumble the ball, and when you have to put the whole team on their back, they come through, look at last week's game against Seattle. We'd get more form them if we used them more, but why would you if you had Aaron Rodgers?
Finally, I can tell you form a fan's perspective we'd rather face Minnesota, New Orleans or Dallas before you guys, so here's hoping you move up the ladder. We'll knock off some before meeting you second time, then it's just one game.
I believe if it's not us, it's gonna be AZ or Philly (which would make me sick)
Good luck!

 

[PJ1]

I would say you underestimate the Packers, I'm not being disrespectful, but I've been reading this board and everyone is talking about the Cowboys. The Packers nearly shut out the 'Boys until a meaningless TD at the end of the game.
Ryan Grant is ranked 8th, where is your best back? Driver and Jennings have more yards than your two receivers. As for not having the scores, the Packers do it with running backs, receivers, tight ends. Scoring is a team affair.
You also suggest you have a push on the D-line. I really doubt that, with all players healthy, Packers have more power easily. We lead the NFL in interceptions too so it's funny you don't give more respect to Wood and Co. But you're right about that, Bush was rough, but he's turning it around.
There was talk on another thread about fearing Dallas D, Packers have number 2 and number 1 against the run. Good luck, we have NO fear of Dallas, would much rather face them than you guys.
All in all, I love your team and your organization. I love to watch all the ex-Packers do as well as KW.
I am a Packer fan , but if my teams not winning, I'm all for big Red, I love the underdogs. Good luck guys, this is as much fun as a fan can ask for.

I don't underestimate the Pack one bit. I would rather play Minny or Dallas. We will have to play well to win but I expect we will. Should be a good matchup. We just can't turn the ball over or we will be in in big trouble.