Kobe is gone!

[AzStevenCal]

Kobe who?

He's been gone for a couple of years but now it's official.

 

[crisper57]

Next time he sexually assaults someone, his celebrity might not get in the way of justice! Yay!

 

[Sunburn]

Anytime a player scores 60 in an NBA game, against NBA players playing NBA defense, that is a rare accomplishment. For most players, that would be the pinnacle moment of their career. To do this at age 37...... Well, for comparison, Wilt Chamberlain did this at age 32. That's it. That's the next closest guy. That alone is incredible. To do this in his final game while leading his team to victory in epic comeback fashion in the fourth quarter.... That's legendary. That's all time greatness. That might be the greatest exit by an athlete ever, for all time. You might not see anything like that ever again. I know Kobe is not the most lovable player, but come on guys, give the man his due. He's earned it.

 

[Phrazbit]

The greatest exit I can think of is John Elway, retiring as a back to back champion and superbowl MVP. Not even trying to knock Kobe, but I don't think his game even comes close to that.

If Jordan had retired after the 2nd 3peat he'd have had the "best exit" title on lock down for the ages.

 

[Sunburn]

The greatest exit I can think of is John Elway, retiring as a back to back champion and superbowl MVP. Not even trying to knock Kobe, but I don't think his game even comes close to that.

If Jordan had retired after the 2nd 3peat he'd have had the "best exit" title on lock down for the ages.

I disagree. John Elway retired a champion in his final game but that was a team accomplishment. He played well, throwing for 336 yards and one touchdown, with one interception, while also scoring a rushing touchdown. As far as an individual performance, those numbers were good but hardly historic, and though he was awarded the mvp, it was not even the strongest performance by a player in that game. Terrell Davis was the best player in that game, and the reason the Broncos won, rushing for 157 yards and a Super-Bowl record three touchdowns, including the 1-yard game-winner with 1:45 remaining. On the other hand, Kobe's performance was historic. What he did, at his age, in his final game, and in the fashion he did it, we've never seen anything like that before. Not in MJ's last game. Not in Magic's last game. Not in Bird's. Not in Barkley's. Not in Wilt's. Not in Kareem's. Not in Oscar's. West, Baylor, Erving, Malone, Cousy..... Not ever. And as far as I can recall, not in any other sport as well. To not give the man his due just seems unreasonable.

 

[3rdside]

The greatest professional sports team that ever existed were the all blacks rugby team. Made even more amazing considering how small New Zealand is population wise - about 4m - matched up against the likes of Australia (22m), South Africa (54m), England (54m), and France (65m), and how much less financial resources they have. And while rugby union is not as statistically popular as basketball, it is by definition a global game.

Richie McCaw captained his team to back to back World Cup victories ie every 4 years, while maintaining a winning record of 88% when he played. He also played 130 odd games; amazing for such a brutal sport and considering he played in such a brutal position (open side flanker).

To be the captain of the greatest sports team of all time, to be considered the greatest rugby player of all time, and to go out on top of the world takes some beating. And he's a super down to earth, likeable guy no less.

Credit to Kobe, sure, but he's not the greatest player of all time, his team is not the greatest of all time, he's selfish, and a bit of a d!ck...I just can't agree that this was the greatest exit of all time. Not even close.


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[Sunburn]

The greatest professional sports team that ever existed were the all blacks rugby team. Made even more amazing considering how small New Zealand is population wise - about 4m - matched up against the likes of Australia (22m), South Africa (54m), England (54m), and France (65m), and how much less financial resources they have. And while rugby union is not as statistically popular as basketball, it is by definition a global game.

Richie McCaw captained his team to back to back World Cup victories ie every 4 years, while maintaining a winning record of 88% when he played. He also played 130 odd games; amazing for such a brutal sport and considering he played in such a brutal position.

To be the captain of the greatest sports team of all time of all time, to be considered the greatest rugby player of all time, and to go out on top of the world takes some beating. And he's a super down to earth, likeable guy no less.

Credit to Kobe, sure, but he's not the greatest player of all time, his team is not the greatest of all time, he's selfish, and a bit of a d!ck...I just can't agree that this was the greatest exit of all time.


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Let's be clear, I'm saying Kobe's was the greatest individual performance ever in an athlete's final competition. I am taking age into account. I am disregarding stakes, as this would unfairly skew grading, since most athletes did not compete for a championship in their final competition. What were Richie McCaw's numbers in his final game? Did he lead his team from behind towards the end of that game? What was his age at the time?

 

[3rdside]

34 years old in a full contact, no pad sport - easily as comparable to 37 in basketball - and no one in rugby has played as many games as he has (142, not 130).

The mark of any successful team is to win, not individual stats; McCaw went out as the ultimate winner, Kobe as "the greatest individual statistical game for a retiree that did not result in one ounce of notable team success".

He scored 60 on 50 shots with everyone feeding him in an entirely meaningless game for a team that is one of the greatest losers in laker history.

An individual's success always needs context in terms of the bigger - team - picture...Kobe's success has none.








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[leclerc]

Being spoonfed the ball so you can chuck 50 shots kind of gives you 60 points especially when you've always gotten cheap calls. I agree it's impressive given his age. He was always a good scorer and he has multiple rings (being number two guy). I think leading your team through NFL playoffs and winning the superbowl is much better than ego tripping in a meaningless NBA game.

 

[nashman]

Pretty sure plenty of nba players can put up a 60 spot if they are fed 50 shots and cheap fouls, was not impressive at all to me. Your entitled to your own opinion but it was clearly planned exit to just feed Kobe, how many points would curry, shoot freaking Booker put up if they took 50 shots? I think people are really overlooking 50 freaking shot attempts, not to mention the dozen or so FT attempts. Like I said maybe the perfect way for the biggest ball hog e we to go out!

 

[AzStevenCal]

Pretty sure plenty of nba players can put up a 60 spot if they are fed 50 shots and cheap fouls, was not impressive at all to me. Your entitled to your own opinion but it was clearly planned exit to just feed Kobe, how many points would curry, shoot freaking Booker put up if they took 50 shots? I think people are really overlooking 50 freaking shot attempts, not to mention the dozen or so FT attempts. Like I said maybe the perfect way for the biggest ball hog e we to go out!

I agree and without Gobert, Favors or Burks and Utah having learned of Houston's clinching victory, the vaunted Jazz defense simply melted away. But even still, there aren't too many players his age that could have put up 50 shots let alone score 60 points. It was a special exit for an old player. It's being built up as legendary which is way over the top IMO but it's an exit to be respected IMO.

 

[Phrazbit]

I disagree. John Elway retired a champion in his final game but that was a team accomplishment. He played well, throwing for 336 yards and one touchdown, with one interception, while also scoring a rushing touchdown. As far as an individual performance, those numbers were good but hardly historic, and though he was awarded the mvp, it was not even the strongest performance by a player in that game. Terrell Davis was the best player in that game, and the reason the Broncos won, rushing for 157 yards and a Super-Bowl record three touchdowns, including the 1-yard game-winner with 1:45 remaining. On the other hand, Kobe's performance was historic. What he did, at his age, in his final game, and in the fashion he did it, we've never seen anything like that before. Not in MJ's last game. Not in Magic's last game. Not in Bird's. Not in Barkley's. Not in Wilt's. Not in Kareem's. Not in Oscar's. West, Baylor, Erving, Malone, Cousy..... Not ever. And as far as I can recall, not in any other sport as well. To not give the man his due just seems unreasonable.

You're comparing a guy winning superbowl MVP to a dude who chucked up 50 shots for 60 points in, other than it being his last game, was completely meaningless game.

IMO the two are not even remotely comparable. Also, all those other guys you're comparing their last games... virtually all of them actually had something on the line, something to actually compete for that would preclude them from chucking up 50 shot attempts.

I think as people get further removed from the moment the thought is going to change from "Wow! The greatest retirement preformance ever!" to "WOW! What an appropriate way for one of the most selfish ball-hogs in league history to go out."

Lacking the indignity of actually chucking up 50 shots, there are countless players who could pour in 60 points.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I disagree. John Elway retired a champion in his final game but that was a team accomplishment. He played well, throwing for 336 yards and one touchdown, with one interception, while also scoring a rushing touchdown. As far as an individual performance, those numbers were good but hardly historic, and though he was awarded the mvp, it was not even the strongest performance by a player in that game. Terrell Davis was the best player in that game, and the reason the Broncos won, rushing for 157 yards and a Super-Bowl record three touchdowns, including the 1-yard game-winner with 1:45 remaining.

you're combining the Broncos back to back Super Bowl wins. In Elway's last game he had the stat line you posted above, but Davis only had 101 yard and no TDs. Elway absolutely deserved that MVP winning a walk-off second title and was easily the strongest player in that game and went out a back to back champion. That's the best exit in sports, IMO.

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/history/boxscore/sbxxxiii

Jordan would have had it had he not come back for the ill-fated Wizards run.

But Kobe's is up there. It was ridiculous no matter the circumstances.

 

[Sunburn]

John Elway is great. How he went out is great. He went out a champ. In Super Bowl 33, he threw 18/29 for 336 yards, one touchdown, and an interception. He also ran for a touchdown. Pretty damn good. But taking out the fact that this was a championship game, and just looking at individual performance, those numbers are relatively pedestrian. We see numbers like that all the time. Kobe did not have the benefit of playing in a championship game, but the numbers he put up were historic (and it's not close). And he put them up while scoring 23 in the fourth quarter, leading his team to victory from behind. This is not an easy thing to argue about, and we can probably go back and forth all day. At the very least, I say it's debatable. But, I keep reading he's a selfish chucker, what a fitting way for a ballhog to go out, good riddance, yada yada..... The man won 5 rings! He must've been doing something right. On top of that, he wasn't just a one dimensional chucker. He was a fantastic all-around player, and a killer on the defensive end in his prime. To look at the guy, at his final game, at age 37, and not tip your hat to him, not say well done, just seems like ridiculous, unreasonable hate to me. And I don't even like the guy. Stop making me make this argument!

 

[Sunburn]

I think as people get further removed from the moment the thought is going to change from "Wow! The greatest retirement preformance ever!" to "WOW! What an appropriate way for one of the most selfish ball-hogs in league history to go out."

I don't think so. I think people will look at the 60 he scored at age 37, and then look at the next closest guy, which is Wilt at age 32, and say "Wow, that was greatness." As BIM said, Jordan shot 49 times, in a loss, in 1993. Do we remember him as a selfish chucker?

Lacking the indignity of actually chucking up 50 shots, there are countless players who could pour in 60 points.

Not at age 37.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't think so. I think people will look at the 60 he scored at age 37, and then look at the next closest guy, which is Wilt at age 32, and say "Wow, that was greatness." As BIM said, Jordan shot 49 times, in a loss, in 1993. Do we remember him as a selfish chucker?



Not at age 37.

Yes, I suspect even at age 37. The jaw dropping stat there is 50 shots, not the 60 points.

And Jordan shooting 49 times in some random game nearly a decade before he finally retired is a straw man argument (a game that went to OT by the way). Kobe made a career out of being a selfish gunner, this one meaningless game is basically the narrative of his career. I'm not saying he wasn't a great player, but that game was a side show, a meaningless game vs a team with nothing to play for who found out before tip their season was dead. Comparing that to games where people were playing for titles, for playoff series, ect... is a joke.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't think so. I think people will look at the 60 he scored at age 37, and then look at the next closest guy, which is Wilt at age 32, and say "Wow, that was greatness." As BIM said, Jordan shot 49 times, in a loss, in 1993. Do we remember him as a selfish chucker?



Not at age 37.

^this. Nobody cares that Kobe shot 50 shots...everyone watching the game wanted him to shoot 100 shots....the crowd boo'd when Kobe passed the ball rather than shooting it hence why at the end he said that he was laughing because everyone wanted him to shoot it so much since its his last one.

There's a reason why basically every big time athlete both retired and current congratulated and were in awe of Kobe's final game performance.

 

[Phrazbit]

^this. Nobody cares that Kobe shot 50 shots...everyone watching the game wanted him to shoot 100 shots....the crowd boo'd when Kobe passed the ball rather than shooting it hence why at the end he said that he was laughing because everyone wanted him to shoot it so much since its his last one.

There's a reason why basically every big time athlete both retired and current congratulated and were in awe of Kobe's final game performance.

Yeah, laughing because it was a farce. An impressive farce? Sure, why not.

You cannot compare what was done in a game that didn't matter where Kobe did what he did ENTIRELY because nothing was at stake to what other greats who actually had something to play for put up.

 

[GatorAZ]

^this. Nobody cares that Kobe shot 50 shots...everyone watching the game wanted him to shoot 100 shots....the crowd boo'd when Kobe passed the ball rather than shooting it hence why at the end he said that he was laughing because everyone wanted him to shoot it so much since its his last one.

There's a reason why basically every big time athlete both retired and current congratulated and were in awe of Kobe's final game performance.

Appareny some ppl would've rather seen Lou Williams get those shots. I mean seriously who the hell cares. The guy has played over 50,000 minutes and we're complaining about the last 48.

 

[Phrazbit]

Appareny some ppl would've rather seen Lou Williams get those shots. I mean seriously who the hell cares. The guy has played over 50,000 minutes and we're complaining about the last 48.

You're wildly missing the point, I don't care who shoots.

People are comparing what happened in a game that didn't matter, where people played like it didn't matter and saying it is this amazing historical achievement that eclipses what other players did in competitive situations that flat out preclude playing like they're in a side show. THAT is my issue.

 

[Sunburn]

Yes, I suspect even at age 37.

To submit this, when the next closest guy was Wilt at 32, seems like wild conjecture.

The jaw dropping stat there is 50 shots, not the 60 points.

December 8, 1961, Elgin Baylor took 55 shots to score 63. He was 27 years old. January 16, 1993, Michael Jordan too 49 shots to score 64. He was 29 years old. April 9, 1978, George Gervin took 49 shots to score 63. He was 26 years old. Wilt Chamberlain took 45 or more shots at least 14 times, 50 or more shots at least 6 times.

The fact that these guys were in their respective primes, while Kobe was well outside of his, in his final game, makes Kobe's performance all the more incredible. And even if the game was meaningless. Or the game was a sideshow. Or the Jazz let him score. Or they played 4 on 5, or without their shoes, or with one hand tied behind their collective backs, what Kobe did was special. At his age, the performance he delivered, we haven't seen anything like that before, and you might not see anything like that ever again.

 

[nashman]

It's a joke that people consider this some sort of special performance! Who gives a crap about him being 37 he play all damn year and did nothing so the only reason he scored is because the game meant nothing Utah was not clamping down on him and the whole team was just feeding him the ball. To me the joke is it took 50 attempts to get the 60 in that situation. It's not like he did it even in a remotely competitive situation Utah had zero to play for and it showed. This exit should not even be in the conversation of one of the best it sports, it was a pathetic sideshow and not impressive to me at all. I'm willing to bet if the Suns fed booker 50 shots in the final game he could get close maybe surpass 60 and he is not considered one of the best ever. It was what it was a sideshow to try and have Kobe have a good game to end his career on. Not impressive!

 

[Phrazbit]

To submit this, when the next closest guy was Wilt at 32, seems like wild conjecture.

Again, because there is a certain indignity is blasting up 50 shots that most players would avoid. I'm being serious in that. I think a lot of the "greats" would be embarrassed, especially if it was in their final game. And again, you're comparing stats in games that mattered to what happened in a game that turned into a circus. I guarantee that if the Lakers season were not already a complete joke and they actually had something on the line you would NOT have seen Kobe jack up 50 shots.

We haven't seen anything like that before, and you might not see anything like that ever again.

That I'll agree with, but it does not equal greatness.

 

[AzStevenCal]

To submit this, when the next closest guy was Wilt at 32, seems like wild conjecture.

But you're overlooking the fact that it was a Utah team that in addition to having just learned they had nothing to play for, they were without 3 of their 4 best players. It was Kobe at 37 doing the unexpected but it was against a collection of mostly bench players. It's a nice achievement, it isn't one for the ages. Because it sells well it will continue to be presented as a one of a kind night but how many great NBA players got to play their last game against a squad like Kobe faced?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I hate Kobe as much as anyone, but that guy is completely broken down, held together by pins and needles and still shot 44% in getting 60, while leading his team back from a ten point 4th quarter deficit to win the game, going 5-5 from the field and 4-4 from the line in the fourth... in his last game at home. Naysay it all you want, but that was a pretty incredible performance and the perfect encapsulation of his entire career... ball hogging, clutch shots... and getting lots of calls against a bad team.