Kobe to extend with Lakers, Shaq tradable, LA wants Jackson

[Yuma]

"Thursday, June 17, 2004

Associated Press
EL SEGUNDO, Calif. -- The Los Angeles Lakers plan to decide soon whether Phil Jackson will be their coach next season, perhaps as early as Friday.

"The No. 1 priority for us right now is to resolve the coaching situation," general manager Mitch Kupchak said Thursday. "We would hope to have that addressed in a short period of time."

Speaking less than 48 hours after the Lakers were beaten by the Detroit Pistons in the NBA Finals, Kupchak also said the team will do whatever it takes to keep Kobe Bryant, and trading Shaquille O'Neal is a possibility if the star center demands it.

Kupchak said he spoke with Jackson on Thursday, but only about the current season -- not about the coach's future. The GM said Lakers owner Jerry Buss will meet with Jackson "within the next several days."

Jackson's agent, Todd Musberger, said it was his understanding that Jackson and Buss will try to meet Friday. Musberger said he didn't know any other details about the meeting.

The 58-year-old Jackson is finishing the five-year, $30 million contract he signed with the Lakers in 1999. He coached the team to championships in his first three seasons, giving him nine to tie former Boston coach Red Auerbach for the most in NBA history.

In 14 seasons as a head coach, Jackson is 832-316 for a .725 winning percentage -- best in NBA history. His 175 playoff wins are the most ever and his .717 postseason winning percentage is also tops. His teams in Chicago and Los Angeles had a 9-0 record in the NBA Finals until this year.

Jackson was discussing a contract extension, but the Lakers ended talks in February until after the season.

"Phil has never said that he has no interest in coming back," Musberger, said from his Chicago office.

Jackson said following the Lakers' loss Tuesday night that there was "a pretty slim chance" he'll coach the team next season.

"No coach coaches forever," Kupchak said. "We're going to have to work in tandem with him and decide how to move forward. He's going to have his side and we're going to have our side of it. I would say he's been the best coach in the NBA over the last five years."

That being said, all indications are Jackson's future with the Lakers will be decided by the team -- not Jackson.

Several other changes are expected before next season. Only five of the 14 players on the current roster -- O'Neal, Devean George, Rick Fox, Kareem Rush and Brian Cook -- are under contract. The Lakers have club options on Luke Walton and Jamal Sampson.

Karl Malone, Horace Grant, Slava Medvedenko and Bryon Russell are free agents, with Malone becoming one Wednesday when he opted out of the contract that would have paid him $1.65 million.

Bryant, Gary Payton and Derek Fisher can opt out of their contracts, making them free agents.

Bryant has said he'll opt out, and Kupchak said that makes the best business sense since the Lakers could then sign him for seven years for over $140 million. That's one year longer than any other team could sign him and for substantially more money.

"I think we're going to keep Kobe," Kupchak said. "Part of that is based on conversations I've had with him. I've talked to his representatives. I think this is the place where he started his career and this is the place where he should end his career. I don't think any other city appreciates him as much as this one does."

Bryant faces a sexual assault charge in Colorado, with no trial date set. He could spend time in prison if convicted.

"We're willing to take that chance," Kupchak said.

Kupchak said the Lakers will offer Bryant the maximum contract allowable, and wouldn't make a sign-and-trade deal even if he plans to leave.

"Kobe is just going to have to just go, because we're not going to trade him," Kupchak said. "I don't anticipate that changing. We're going to do everything we can to keep him."

O'Neal said following the finals that he was going to "take care of me," and didn't elaborate.

O'Neal has made clear his desire for a contract extension, which hasn't happened. He has two seasons left on his contract -- for $27.7 million next year and $30.6 million the following year. He can opt out after next season.

"He can dominate this game for years to come," Kupchak said.

About possibly trading O'Neal, Kupchak said: "He has a lot to do with that as well. That would not be a good day in this club's history. We do plan to talk to him. Players do have that option (to demand a trade). We'll see what happens."

Kupchak said he expects Payton will exercise his $5.4 million option to play with the Lakers next season. Payton has until next Wednesday to decide, his agent, Aaron Goodwin, said Thursday.

Kupchak also said he hopes Malone will return.

Malone, who turns 41 next month, said he has to be completely healthy to play next season. He sustained a possible torn right knee ligament in Game 2 of the finals, which slowed him considerably in the next two games and caused him to sit out the finale."

Looks like Kupchak is trying to keep all the main pieces the same for the Lakers. It also looks as if they are trying to kiss both Kobe's and Shaq's A$$es and keep them in LA, but push come to shove, they may trade Shaq. I would say the odds are that Kobe is NOT coming to Phoenix. Would Sarver take a shot that Kobe will not be found guilty in COlorado? Knowing the Suns luck, if we got Kobe, he would be found guilty after we locked him up into a long term deal that would bend our cap for years to come. I think at the end of the day, Kobe stays in LA, Shaq, too, and even Jackson.

 

[SunsTzu]

First off the title of this thread is rather misleading. All this article says is the Lakers will do whatever it takes to keep Kobe and they would not be willing to trade him, which is what they have been saying for months. Also If Kobe did sign a new deal and then was convicted his contract would be void so I don't see why you are worried about it affecting our capspace.

I did find it intresting that he believes that Payton is staying.

 

[elindholm]

Also If Kobe did sign a new deal and then was convicted his contract would be void

As has been clarified on this board about 200 times.

 

[Yuma]

Also If Kobe did sign a new deal and then was convicted his contract would be void

As has been clarified on this board about 200 times.

I have seen that espoused by pundits and news media people, but have you seen one Player's Union or NBA management article that clarifies that? I have yet to hear David Stern say that. Wasn't there a guy who died, and his contract STILL counted against the cap? I also have read other articles recently touting the risk of signing Kobe BEFORE his trial is over. Do "they" not know the wisdom of this board? Also, ESPN's NBA guru was just talking about this issue on TV! I think this board is in error. I'm not calling anyone out, I just don't think this position that Kobe's contract is void and has NO CAP rammifications if he's found guilty is false. There have been other guys in court situations that have agreed to terms, and then signed once they were not going to spend playing time in the hole. You guys keep saying it won't happen if Kobe is found guilty, but I don't see A) the player's union saying that, B) David Stern or any NBA management saying that, C) Articles keep saying it's a risk.

 

[Yuma]

First off the title of this thread is rather misleading. All this article says is the Lakers will do whatever it takes to keep Kobe and they would not be willing to trade him, which is what they have been saying for months. Also If Kobe did sign a new deal and then was convicted his contract would be void so I don't see why you are worried about it affecting our capspace.

I did find it intresting that he believes that Payton is staying.

Did you read the part about Kobe telling Kupchak he wants to stay? I don't remember hearing Kupchak say that before.

 

[Yuma]

Also If Kobe did sign a new deal and then was convicted his contract would be void

As has been clarified on this board about 200 times.

"Bryant faces a sexual assault charge in Colorado, with no trial date set. He could spend time in prison if convicted.

"We're willing to take that chance," Kupchak said."

Hmm... sounds like a risk to me!

 

[elindholm]

I have seen that espoused by pundits and news media people, but have you seen one Player's Union or NBA management article that clarifies that?

It's in Larry Coon's CBA FAQ, but I don't have time to dig up the link right now. Someone else can probably post the relevant language, but simplest would be for you to execute a search among older messages on this board.

Players who die don't count against the cap either, but they might have under an earlier version of the CBA, for all I know.

 

[Yuma]

If you renonce the contract you may be able to get out from under it. If you do that then Kobe becomes a free agent. Let's say he gets two years sentenced. You have to eat his contract for two years, so you can have his rights. So in a practical sense, it's a risk. Why sign him then turn around and opt out of the contract? I guess if he get's 10 years with no chance of parole, but like I said, what if he can get out in 2 years? Or 3? Or a year and a half? You wouldn't void the contract, thus you would lose that cap space for essentially nothing. It's not like an unexpected injury. There is a real chance he will be convicted. I keep reading NBA articles that downplay this side of his trial. You just don't know how a jury will judge him.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Wasn't there a guy who died, and his contract STILL counted against the cap?

56. How do players who die while under contract (Reggie Lewis, Drazen Petrovic, Nick Vanos, Bobby Phills) count against the cap?
A player who dies or who suffers a career-ending injury or illness, and whose contract is terminated, may be excluded from his team's team salary. If the death, injury, or illness occurs between July 1 and December 31, the salary can be excluded beginning on the second July 1 following the death, injury, or illness. If the termination occurs between January 1 and June 30, the salary can be excluded beginning two years after the death, injury, or illness. However, a team may decide not to terminate the contract and continue to pay the player. For example, the Lakers continued to pay Magic Johnson after he was forced to retire because of his HIV status, so his salary was included in the Lakers' team salary.

Teams do not receive an exception to acquire a replacement player if a player's contract is terminated for medical reasons. However, a disabled player exception (see question number 17 ) may be granted by the league in the event of a player's death. For example, the league granted Charlotte a disabled player exception when Bobby Phills died, and Charotte used this exception to acquire Dale Ellis.

55. What about suspended players? How do they count against the cap? Can teams suspend players for any reason?
The CBA does not give a complete list of reasons for which a player can be suspended. A few reasons are specified, such as for prohibited substances and disciplinary reasons. Teams sometimes suspend players for other reasons, but those suspensions are often grieved. For example, Toronto once suspended Oliver Miller for being too heavy, and the LA Clippers once suspended Keith Closs for being too light! Also, players will generally be suspended if they are found guilty, plead guilty, or come to a settlement in a legal court.

Suspended players are included in team salary, but players are not paid while they are suspended. The CBA does not specify the length of suspensions except in the cases of:

Missing the rookie transition program: Five games.
Unlawful violence: 10 games minimum.
Marijuana: No suspension for the first two violations, five games for the third & subsequent violations.
Steroids: Five games for the first violation, 10 games for the second violation, 25 games for the third & subsequent violations.
Drugs other than marijuana and steroids: There are different "stages" of this program, and the penalties vary by stage, and could include a six month suspension or disqualfication from the NBA.
The suspensions for drugs become larger if the player refuses to submit to mandatory treatment and monitoring.

Just like every other contract in life, there are often moral clauses installed. If Kobe is convicted of Rape, that would be sufficent enough for any team to terminate his contract (thus making it come off the cap the next summer). Same thing will happen with his endorsements. McDonalds terminated their contract when he was charged, and Coke/Nike will most likely terminate them if he is convicted.


About your question regarding him getting a 2 year sentence. First off, you are right about him becomming a FA if we terminate the deal. However, we could suspend him for the duration he was in prison, and not have to pay him. However, he would still count against the cap.

However, that decision would be made in the UNLIKELY event it comes up. It will have no bearing on signing him, since we could kill the contract if we wanted to. The only thing it would do is create a PR hit, and lets be real, the suns can't sink to much more in that department....

 

[SunsTzu]

Did you read the part about Kobe telling Kupchak he wants to stay? I don't remember hearing Kupchak say that before.

I've heard Magic saying Kobe told him he was going to stay, also those famous "scources" were assuring Kobe's return to the Lakers when it looked like they were going to win another title after the Spurs match-up.

The title of the thread implies Kobe made a public decision, which he has not. Until Kobe comes out and says publicly what he's going to do I don't trust any of these reports.

 

[fordronken]

Plus, you have factor in his suspension time after he gets out of prison.

 

[Yuma]

Just like every other contract in life, there are often moral clauses installed. If Kobe is convicted of Rape, that would be sufficent enough for any team to terminate his contract (thus making it come off the cap the next summer). Same thing will happen with his endorsements. McDonalds terminated their contract when he was charged, and Coke/Nike will most likely terminate them if he is convicted.


About your question regarding him getting a 2 year sentence. First off, you are right about him becomming a FA if we terminate the deal. However, we could suspend him for the duration he was in prison, and not have to pay him. However, he would still count against the cap.

However, that decision would be made in the UNLIKELY event it comes up. It will have no bearing on signing him, since we could kill the contract if we wanted to. The only thing it would do is create a PR hit, and lets be real, the suns can't sink to much more in that department....

One thing noone on the board is factoring into this Kobe scenario, is even if we sign him and the worst happens and he is found guilty and we can void his contract, we potentially miss out on other free agents we COULD have signed, but were obligated to Kobe in the meantime.

Like you said above and I said previously, you can avoid paying him, or continue to pay him while he's in prison, but it's his unuseful cap space that will really hurt the Suns. Magic wasn't really that much of a hit because he signed a 20 year, 20 million dollar restructure, so in essence he only counted $1 million against the cap while LA contnued to pay him. That was because Magic and Jerry Buss were good friends, and Magic was basically underpaid per year, but got ownership in exchange when he retired.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

One thing noone on the board is factoring into this Kobe scenario, is even if we sign him and the worst happens and he is found guilty and we can void his contract, we potentially miss out on other free agents we COULD have signed, but were obligated to Kobe in the meantime.

I never brought it up because the rest of this FA class sucks ass. It is totally irrelevent.

 

[elindholm]

One thing noone on the board is factoring into this Kobe scenario, is even if we sign him and the worst happens and he is found guilty and we can void his contract, we potentially miss out on other free agents we COULD have signed, but were obligated to Kobe in the meantime.

Come on Yuma, we love to have you, but where have you been? This point has also been discussed several times.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

One thing noone on the board is factoring into this Kobe scenario, is even if we sign him and the worst happens and he is found guilty and we can void his contract, we potentially miss out on other free agents we COULD have signed, but were obligated to Kobe in the meantime.

Come on Yuma, we love to have you, but where have you been? This point has also been discussed several times.

I like my response better

 

[Joe Mama]

Yuma, I swear that you love using misleading titles to your threads. The title to this thread is flat out incorrect. Kobe Bryant is not going to extend his contract with the Lakers. If he stays with them it will be under a totally new contract after he opts out of his present contract.

Joe Mama

 

[Evil Ash]

Looks like Kupchak is trying to keep all the main pieces the same for the Lakers. It also looks as if they are trying to kiss both Kobe's and Shaq's A$$es and keep them in LA, but push come to shove, they may trade Shaq. I would say the odds are that Kobe is NOT coming to Phoenix. Would Sarver take a shot that Kobe will not be found guilty in COlorado? Knowing the Suns luck, if we got Kobe, he would be found guilty after we locked him up into a long term deal that would bend our cap for years to come. I think at the end of the day, Kobe stays in LA, Shaq, too, and even Jackson.

Man the thread title is incredibly misleading.

First of all, Kobe has said nothing and the "We will do anything to keep Kobe" statement has been out there with a month left in the season. The problem that may arise with the Lakers end of keeping Kobe is they waited so long to say it. Kobe has been saying that before the season even started that he was going to opt out of his deal and test the FA market. The Lakers didn't take him seriously and Kobe kinda took offense to that. After realizing that he wasn't joking, they started kissing his ass. Was it too little, too late?

Secondly from everything that I have heard, the meeting with Jackson was to nicely tell him that they didn't want him back. ESPN that they already have made calls to schedule interview other potential HC candidates including Rudy T and Coach Bibby from USC. Combine that with rumors that Phil Jackson wants at least 9 million dollars per year and the triangle is a system that Kobe doesn’t like, that can only lead to the conclusion that Jackson is gone.

Third, the trading of Shaq can be an incredibly difficult process. Since they made the statement that they will do anything to keep Kobe and will build their team around him, the corner that they have now backed themselves into is how do you get 30 million dollars worth of players back that will all be role players for Kobe? Also, how do you make it so your team won’t make a complete mess out of your salary cap for years to come, so that you can be competitive sooner rather than later?

So what is Kobe going to do? Nobody except Kobe knows at this point and to be quite honest I’m not even sure if he knows.

 

[Yuma]

1. The title of the thread summarized what's inside the ARTICLE dated the 17th, I believe, so it's more RECENT than the articles you guys keep referring to! "It's been talked about before!" GOOD! THAT"S NOT WHAT THE ARTICLE SAYS!

2. It's not quoting "sources" as you guys keep refering to, but none other than the Laker's GM! I've seen Kupchak, you want to call HIM a liar, go ahead!

3. The ARTICLE stated a) Kobe was going to resign, B) they want to keep Shaq, C) amazingly they still want Jackson, AGAIN all coming from the LAKERS GM! You guys saying the thread title is misleading is PURE BS! I put EXACTLY WHAT'S IN THE ARTICLE IN THE THREAD TITLE! I can't help you guys READ it, too! You can argue Mitch Kupchak is FULL of it, but to say I am MISLEADING the thread title is BS!

"Yuma, I swear that you love using misleading titles to your threads. The title to this thread is flat out incorrect. Kobe Bryant is not going to extend his contract with the Lakers. If he stays with them it will be under a totally new contract after he opts out of his present contract.

Joe Mama" Uh Joe, can a guy extend his stay on a team? What do you want to call it in a short thread space trying to get three thoughts into that thread? I think "Kobe to extend with Lakers" gets the point across that he will eventually end up satying with the Lakers, especially AFTER you read how Kupchak lays out how it will happen! NOTICE I DIDN"T SAY "KOBE EXTENDS CONTRACT!"

"First of all, Kobe has said nothing and the "We will do anything to keep Kobe" statement has been out there with a month left in the season. - Evil Ash"

WRONG EVIL, Kobe TOLD MITCH he wants to stay on the Lakers! That's NOT saying nothing! DID YOU EVEN READ THE ARTICLE????

READ THE FRIGGING ARTICLE AND LOOK AT THE THREAD TITLE! GEEZ!

 

[Ryanwb]

Whats with the green smilie next to all your posts?? Are we not suppose to take them seriously

 

[Yuma]

Whats with the green smilie next to all your posts?? Are we not suppose to take them seriously

That's just to help an Old Man find his threads! You young guys don't need that!

 

[capologist]

Whatever the generic rules may be regarding the cap implications of this type of situation, those rules don’t constitute the entirety of the situation, because in this case, the contract will contain explicit provisions.

In fact, if I were managing a team negotiating with Bryant, I would insist upon a provision that the team would be able to terminate the contract, without further obligation, in the event of Bryant’s conviction on this charge, or a similar charge with a similar sentence, even if he remains free and available pending an appeal. This point would be absolutely non-negotiable. The prospect of paying an eight-figure salary to a convicted rapist to be the most visible face of the team is just unthinkable. If he won’t accept such a provision, he’s perfectly welcome to go find another team that will give him a contract without such a provision. I doubt he’d find one (unless the team is convinced that there is no chance of a conviction, and hence that the presence or absence of the provision is of only symbolic significance). No matter how much his services are in demand, I don’t think he has enough clout to weasel out of that provision, and he certainly won’t be weaselling out of it with my team.

Frankly, he has little reason to object to such a provision, since the team could probably terminate the contract upon conviction even without the explicit provision — but it might take a painfully drawn-out legal process that would be harmful to the team and of no benefit to Bryant.

 

[capologist]

3. The ARTICLE stated a) Kobe was going to resign

It states no such thing. It quotes Kupchak as saying, “I think we’re going to keep Kobe.” That’s an expression of confidence, not of certainty. It’s no more meaningful than the “promises” from Rick Fox and Kobe Bryant that the Lakers would win Game 5.

Well, Kupchak at least has a better chance of being right than they did.

 

[elindholm]

3. The ARTICLE stated a) Kobe was going to resign

Where? Sorry if I'm too dense to see it.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Henry Bibby? The Lakers haven't won 4 of the last 5 Western Conference finals by being stupid. Bibby's arguably the worst coach in the Pac 10.

 

[Yuma]

The risk, as I see it, isn't in paying or not paying Kobe, but retaining his rights, if you really want his basketball talent, media hit aside! Like I said earlier, if you take Kobe, chances are you want to build the team around him, or he's a key component. That being said, the Lakers are willing to risk more to keep Kobe, probably to the point of guaranteeing some of his salary. Kupchak is stating they can pay him more, which is a fact, and implying they will take the risks associated with signing him, which probably means he will use us and whoever else to squeeze the Lakers into a more advantageous situation for him. I would bet that advantageous situation would include some base salary, or guaranteed portion. There will be a provision to minimize the Lakers risk, but I seriously doubt they will get off scott free. That's why I don't think he will be in a Suns uniform next season. So the Suns look to plan B, TMac, but the Magic want to hold everyone hostage for players. I pray the Suns don't ship out Amare, JJ, or Marion. Let's build a team for once, instead of going for these huge free agent acquisitions to "solve" our problems!