Kolb Will Be Fine

[Russ Smith]

I'm already comfy with Kolb... He has beaten wife syndrome that's why he is so damn skittish. You can hardly blame him. He has already been literally blasted back there at least 5 times this season. He has no faith in his OL and it shows.

This is how I feel. Kolb is either going to get better at playing in chaos or he won't but we won't know what we have in him until the OL is improved and that's not going to happen likely this year.

As I was watching Cutler against Detroit on MNF I was reminded how many times in the last 2 years Cutler has been written off as an INT machine who panics under any rush. that game was a 40 point blowout if not for Cutler making those back to back escape the sack complete the pass plays that resulted in a TD that actually put them ahead in that game.

He couldn't do it the whole game and Detroit's offense took off, but Kolb needs to do what Cutler did, weather the storm and then start to learn how to play in chaos, it'll only make him better down the line.

But he's gotta stop locking on one WR, that is absolutely killing us.

 

[Stout]

And strangely enough, I actually wanted Alex Smith as a FA QB. Felt that he fit our system well.

 

[Russ Smith]

They're running the TCU offense with the Bengals? Which is the same system Dalton learned in high school?

It's remarkable that Cam Newton didn't have to learn a new system for Carolina, because that certainly looks different from what Auburn ran last year. I'm surprised the Tigers didn't use him more as a pocket passer since they had all those plays in their system.

It's definitely an excuse. BTW, are you still down on Alex Smith? He certainly looks like an inferior player to Kevin Kolb right now. That "Getting better every week" sure highlights all his weaknesses. It's not like having the worst coaching staff in football for his entire career might have shackled his development.

So Norv Turner was the worst staff in football? Mike McCarthy was the worst staff in football?

When Smith was horrible as a rookie they blamed inexperience and the OC, so they fired McCarthy. they brought in Norv Turner who sucked as head coach but has a proven track record as an OC. Smith got better but still wasn't very good. Turner left for a new job and they brought in a new OC who tried to combine McCarthy and Turner's system under one umbrella. Smith stunk, had an injury and eventually had to shut it down.

the next year Hostler was gone and Shaun Hill beat out Smith competing under Mike Martz again a guy with a proven track record, he's not perfect mind you but he has produced offenses in the NFL and he's developed QB's like Warner and Bulger.

I'm not saying Smith walked into an ideal situation in SF but one of the reasons they had so many OC's(other than Turner who took a better job) is Smith got them all fired.

Singletary was NOT the guy coaching Alex Smith. The difference now is that the head coach actually is a huge part of coaching Alex Smith. There's a nice article in todays paper about Jerry Rice praising SF and he said before the season started after he talked to Harbaught he came away with one impression, SF would be ok if Harbaugh could find a way to limit what he asked Smith to do. As long as that worked they'd be ok, if they had to increase what they were asking of Alex, they were in trouble.

The notion that Smith was bad for years because of coaching is not true. he's certainly better now because of coaching but Harbaugh had a distinct advantage he had years of tape that he could look at telling him what Smith can't do, and he's not asking him to do that stuff. The prior coaches didn't have that luxury.

McCarthy was trying to run a WC system that's what he was hired to install, it's one reason they picked Smith they felt he fit that style better. He wasn't ready to do it and on they went.

But it's not really fair to say he got terrible coaching his first 2 coaches were among the most respected offensive coaches in the NFL.

 

[Russ Smith]

I initially struggled to find an NFL comparison to Kevin Kolb, and then I was watching the Bears game and I saw that Kolb is a less-talented version of Jay Cutler. Cutler is probably (definitely) a bigger ****** and has leadership problems, but he also has superior arm strength and athleticism.

The problem is that if Kolb is a poor-man's Jay Cutler, what's the point of locking in on an inferior version of a guy who is maybe just a Top 15 QB?

Say he is another Cutler with a weaker arm. Given that Cutler has never played with a WR the caliber of Fitz, doesn't it make some sense that if Kolb settles down and we get a better OL, we can win with Kolb?

I agree with you he doesn't look like a franchise QB that's going to carry a team on his back to titles, but how many of those guys are there.

If we continue to lose and get the first pick I'll be screaming as loud as anybody else to draft Andrew Luck. But it seems unlikely that'll happen.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Say he is another Cutler with a weaker arm. Given that Cutler has never played with a WR the caliber of Fitz, doesn't it make some sense that if Kolb settles down and we get a better OL, we can win with Kolb?

considering that Culter is almost ALL arm... and hasn't been an overly successful QB, than I'd say a weaker version of him doesn't exactly say to me that he can be a winning QB.

 

[Duckjake]

I agree with Rugby and K9. The concern is that Kolb's performances are getting worse instead of better.

How can anyone have any faith in the guy improving when his play keeps deteriorating?

Oh, and in watching other teams play it is safe to say our offensive line is pasthetic. Unless we have had the dumbest collection of offensive linemen ever to play in the NFL the last 5 years Grimm has to go as his blocking techniques and schemes are atrocious.

When was the last time you saw a Cardinal defender unblocked running right at the QB? Something that has happened to us with alarming regularity. Mike Adams vs Green Bay? Not defeating a block or making a great move to get by the blocker but just simply having no one assigned to block him.

And what is with the shoving instead of engaging and locking up rushers? I think that is one of the major reasons our tackles get beat to the outside so often.

 

[kerouac9]

Say he is another Cutler with a weaker arm. Given that Cutler has never played with a WR the caliber of Fitz, doesn't it make some sense that if Kolb settles down and we get a better OL, we can win with Kolb?

I agree with you he doesn't look like a franchise QB that's going to carry a team on his back to titles, but how many of those guys are there.

If we continue to lose and get the first pick I'll be screaming as loud as anybody else to draft Andrew Luck. But it seems unlikely that'll happen.

Didn't Jay Cutler work with Brandon Marshall? That seemed to be a pretty good connection.

If we get a better OL? Why or how is this a fait accompli? We have as good talent on the roster as most teams in the NFL at the OL position; it's the coaching staff that is the problem.

He doesn't look like a franchise QB, but he also doesn't look like even a GOOD QB. He doesn't look even as good as Sanchez, Flacco, Eli Manning, Schaub, Cutler, Stafford, etc., etc. If you have a franchise QB you're set for a decade. But with a good QB you can at least compete for the division and playoffs for years, and if things fall right you can make the Super Bowl (like what happened with the Bucs, Giants, and Cardinals).

Instead, we're stuck with a guy who looks significantly worse than David Garrard, and we're stuck with him for four years. Excellent work, front office. We could have gone with a rookie instead of an injury case RB in the second round and be saying the exact same things today only have a former Pro Bowl CB and an 2011 second-round pick to build with for the future.

 

[Russ Smith]

Didn't Jay Cutler work with Brandon Marshall? That seemed to be a pretty good connection.

If we get a better OL? Why or how is this a fait accompli? We have as good talent on the roster as most teams in the NFL at the OL position; it's the coaching staff that is the problem.

He doesn't look like a franchise QB, but he also doesn't look like even a GOOD QB. He doesn't look even as good as Sanchez, Flacco, Eli Manning, Schaub, Cutler, Stafford, etc., etc. If you have a franchise QB you're set for a decade. But with a good QB you can at least compete for the division and playoffs for years, and if things fall right you can make the Super Bowl (like what happened with the Bucs, Giants, and Cardinals).

Instead, we're stuck with a guy who looks significantly worse than David Garrard, and we're stuck with him for four years. Excellent work, front office. We could have gone with a rookie instead of an injury case RB in the second round and be saying the exact same things today only have a former Pro Bowl CB and an 2011 second-round pick to build with for the future.

Sure but I don't think marshall was ever stable enough to say you could count on him like you can Fitz but that's a fair point, he caught 100 passes 3 straight years in Denver I think all during Cutler's time but not sure.

He hasn't played enough to compare to someone like Garrard, and they're totally different players Garrard left the pocket because he ran, Kolb is leaving because he just doesn't trust the OL.

I'm not saying Kolb is going to be a top 5 QB I just don't think it's written in stone he can't be a good QB. he's big enough, he's got enough arm, he's athletic enough. He just has some very obvious things he has to work on that weren't really shown in Philly because he didn't play enough there and when he did play, their OL actually tried to stay between their man and their QB.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

He doesn't look like a franchise QB, but he also doesn't look like even a GOOD QB. He doesn't look even as good as Sanchez, Flacco, Eli Manning, Schaub, Cutler, Stafford, etc., etc. If you have a franchise QB you're set for a decade. But with a good QB you can at least compete for the division and playoffs for years, and if things fall right you can make the Super Bowl (like what happened with the Bucs, Giants, and Cardinals).

Instead, we're stuck with a guy who looks significantly worse than David Garrard, and we're stuck with him for four years. Excellent work, front office. We could have gone with a rookie instead of an injury case RB in the second round and be saying the exact same things today only have a former Pro Bowl CB and an 2011 second-round pick to build with for the future.

This was my exact fear before the trade, that we would be giving up top 10 compensation and money for a QB who had shown nothing to deserve it. Did he have flashes of success in the Eagles system? Yes, but it's a hell of a risk to take.

The apologists continue to bang on the offensive line, but about half the time, it doesn't seem that it's their fault. Between Kolb panicking and running into pressure or holding on too long and causing a sack, it's a very troublesome pattern of poor pocket awareness.

Further, even when he is protected well, and manages to get a pass off, it's often tipped/batted down at the line of scrimmage, or even worse, he's missing wide open receivers or missing with inaccuracy.

I certainly echo your worries about the "lack of time in the system" excuse. Clearly there are plenty of QB's in new systems that are doing just fine, and we're talking about a coaches son. Not good.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Kolb is leaving because he just doesn't trust the OL.

Is this a part of it? Probably...but could it also be possible that it's a lack of awareness on his part? (when to step up, when to step out, when to throw it away, where is outlet is)

 

[seesred]

When Larry drops balls that hit the numbers it makes everything else harder for a QB. I'm not sure how many we dropped this past week but they all were critical. Interceptions , fumbles that turn into 21 points also make it hard to catch up and the game plan changes.

I think Kolb will be fine and will win a few along the way. Then it will be the FO and coaches to change players that don't want to play. Lets give him more than 5 games of which all but 1 we could have won with out those stupid mistakes and 1 penalty.

We are 1-4 and it doesn't look good for this year. With as many as 50 new players during camp. New offensive and defensive coach it became very hard to expect so much from this team. I made that mistake that changing QB and coachs was all we needed. We need most of them together for a year. Just look at the teams that are losing and the ones that are cleaning up. It takes a few years see Detroit and Buffalo to make any program work.

GBR
40






GBR
40

 

[kerouac9]

Sure but I don't think marshall was ever stable enough to say you could count on him like you can Fitz but that's a fair point, he caught 100 passes 3 straight years in Denver I think all during Cutler's time but not sure.

He hasn't played enough to compare to someone like Garrard, and they're totally different players Garrard left the pocket because he ran, Kolb is leaving because he just doesn't trust the OL.

I'm not saying Kolb is going to be a top 5 QB I just don't think it's written in stone he can't be a good QB. he's big enough, he's got enough arm, he's athletic enough. He just has some very obvious things he has to work on that weren't really shown in Philly because he didn't play enough there and when he did play, their OL actually tried to stay between their man and their QB.

Okay, but didn't we pay a King's Ransom for Kolb because he was ready to succeed now? Is he any better than a 2nd round rookie QB like Dalton or Kaepernick or anyone else? Heck, he'd have the same skill set as Kaepernick if that guy was on our roster.

My point is the same now as it was when we decided to trade instead of draft or look to free agency: the price was too high. Maybe Kolb turns out to be a solid-ish QB like Jason Campbell. Is getting an extra year with Jason Campbell worth the compensation that we gave up? Are we going to be further along in 2012 because we brought in a five-year veteran than we would be bringing in a rookie?

 

[TRW]

I don't know if Kolb WILL be fine...

I think he COULD be, but not being subjected to this coaching staff. I think that this team is mired in a situation of the head coach's own making. He has brought in a lot of "his" guys, with his superiors approval apparently.

Kolb is faced with running an offense that seems to have no identity and no obvious purpose. The formations are strange at times and utterly predictable almost ALL of the time. Whoever is calling the plays run when they should pass, pass when they should run or try some god-awful screen pass that NEVER works. Kurt Warner was able to audible out and not run the idiotic plays, Kolb cannot do that at this point it seems.

On his part, Kolb does not see the field well, cannot sense where the pressure is coming from and is horribly inaccurate and getting worse by the week as others have said. He is shell-shocked and a nervous Nellie and rightfully so.

All that being said, I think he will never be more than a "middle of the pack" QB. He will be average and will need a better than average team around him to make it work. Good luck with that in Arizona Kevin.

 

[conraddobler]

What I'm tired of is this FO's and this coaching staffs approach to winning football games.

Kolb is a cog in the wheel of a very beat up machine, who the heck knows, heck we could have several players languishing in roles they aren't suited for.

You basically need a trained eye to sort through this garbage and tell you if have anything.

Like an antiques roadshow for Football.

I want a camera on the Bidwill's faces as they go through the roster.

It should be good.

 

[Russ Smith]

Is this a part of it? Probably...but could it also be possible that it's a lack of awareness on his part? (when to step up, when to step out, when to throw it away, where is outlet is)

yes but my point is he's lost trust in his OL and now he's starting to move even when he doesn't have to. I don't know if that's an unfixable trait though for example one of the biggest arguments with Alex Smith was total lack of pocket presence and then he'd fumble. One of the big complaints early about Rodgers was he held the ball too long and got sacked too much, again pocket presence.

Guys CAN get better at that.

AS for Dalton obviously he's a rookie but his numbers are almost identical to Kolb's, one more TD one less pick (6 to 5 instead of 5 to 6). 59.2 to 58.7. Obviously the concern is Kolb has been declining but Dalton is playing on one of the best defensive teams in the NFL so far, he's not having to worry about trying to keep up.

Kolb is getting sacked more(16 to 10) and getting pressured a lot more than Dalton. I watched them against the 49ers he had time just couldn't do much against the SF defense.

Obviously Dalton being a rookie you expect will get better, but I don't see why it's wrong to assume Kolb will get better too.

Believe me if he continues to play worse and worse game after game I'll be concerned too, but 5 games is just not enough in this situation for me to say the guy flat can't play.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

but 5 games is just not enough in this situation for me to say the guy flat can't play.

I agree with this, and think the majority of people here haven't written him off completely. That being said, so far he's been a disaster, and there is little to hang your hat on, which is certainly a depressing thought about our chances in the short/long term.

 

[conraddobler]

I agree with this, and think the majority of people here haven't written him off completely. That being said, so far he's been a disaster, and there is little to hang your hat on, which is certainly a depressing thought about our chances in the short/long term.

I'm not sure why people want to pronounce him that, I think the situation around him is the disaster not so much just him.

People have said it over and over again, it's very tough to tell, it's like trying to evaluate a ballerina who's busy dodging machine gun fire, I'm not sure how you tell how good they are given the enviroment they find themselves in.

 

[Russ Smith]

Okay, but didn't we pay a King's Ransom for Kolb because he was ready to succeed now? Is he any better than a 2nd round rookie QB like Dalton or Kaepernick or anyone else? Heck, he'd have the same skill set as Kaepernick if that guy was on our roster.

My point is the same now as it was when we decided to trade instead of draft or look to free agency: the price was too high. Maybe Kolb turns out to be a solid-ish QB like Jason Campbell. Is getting an extra year with Jason Campbell worth the compensation that we gave up? Are we going to be further along in 2012 because we brought in a five-year veteran than we would be bringing in a rookie?

Did you see Kapernick in the preseason? 48% completion, 5 picks, at least 3 more that DB's dropped right in their hands. He was absolutely terrible. He looked OK at the end of the TB game 3-3 but there is no way he's even close to Kolb right now.

If he were our starting QB we'd be 0-5 with 5 blowout losses and everyone would be debating why we didn't just trade for Kolb.

I don't know what to make of Dalton, I saw him against SF he had all day to throw, and was unable to move the ball the whole game. He had 2 bad picks and I was quite surprised at how he's looked since then. He looks like he's going to be a gamer. I think I underestimated him the way I did Colt McCoy last year.

Yes we got Kolb to "win now" but I think it's clear we overestimated how good we would be no matter who the QB was. That said record or not we're actually quite a bit better than we were last season. When you consider the injuries on defense etc as disappointing as Kolb has been recently, Minn was the first game we weren't actually in all year.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I'm not sure why people want to pronounce him that, I think the situation around him is the disaster not so much just him.

I certainly wasn't intimating it was just him, nor do I think anyone believes that. He's certainly been as much of the problem as anyone else though.

 

[Stout]

yes but my point is he's lost trust in his OL and now he's starting to move even when he doesn't have to.

The problem is that he has been doing this since the first game. It's just getting worse because of the OL--the awful tendency was already there, though.

 

[kerouac9]

Did you see Kapernick in the preseason? 48% completion, 5 picks, at least 3 more that DB's dropped right in their hands. He was absolutely terrible. He looked OK at the end of the TB game 3-3 but there is no way he's even close to Kolb right now.

If he were our starting QB we'd be 0-5 with 5 blowout losses and everyone would be debating why we didn't just trade for Kolb.

I don't know what to make of Dalton, I saw him against SF he had all day to throw, and was unable to move the ball the whole game. He had 2 bad picks and I was quite surprised at how he's looked since then. He looks like he's going to be a gamer. I think I underestimated him the way I did Colt McCoy last year.

Yes we got Kolb to "win now" but I think it's clear we overestimated how good we would be no matter who the QB was. That said record or not we're actually quite a bit better than we were last season. When you consider the injuries on defense etc as disappointing as Kolb has been recently, Minn was the first game we weren't actually in all year.

So we gave up a 2nd round pick and DRC to not lose as badly as we are right now? Great deal!

The teams that we're playing this year aren't as good as the ones we played last year. We haven't played a team as good as the Chargers or Falcons were last season. We got blown out by a team that was 0-4 last week! Our luck might have been slightly better last season (missed field goals, Breaston chasing down the St. Louis defender at the goal line), but it's that, not quarterback play, that is the result of the difference in record. We'd be 0-5 right now if the Panthers had decided to let Olindo Mare kick some longish field goals indoors instead of punting from our 38.

One positive from last week is that the defense didn't give up once it was clear that the offense had nothing going on. The D gave up 28 points in the first quarter, and like 6 points the rest of the game. Part of that is Minnesota going into preseason mode the rest of the game, but a larger point is the defense still playing hard.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Part of that is Minnesota going into preseason mode the rest of the game

Uh, yeah...it seemed pretty obvious that Minnesota called off the dogs, especially with their play calling before the half. What happened after we "cut" the deficit to 28-10? They come right back and shove it down our throats again. I can't find anything positive to say about the D, it's atrocious.

 

[kerouac9]

So Norv Turner was the worst staff in football? Mike McCarthy was the worst staff in football?

When Smith was horrible as a rookie they blamed inexperience and the OC, so they fired McCarthy. they brought in Norv Turner who sucked as head coach but has a proven track record as an OC. Smith got better but still wasn't very good. Turner left for a new job and they brought in a new OC who tried to combine McCarthy and Turner's system under one umbrella. Smith stunk, had an injury and eventually had to shut it down.

the next year Hostler was gone and Shaun Hill beat out Smith competing under Mike Martz again a guy with a proven track record, he's not perfect mind you but he has produced offenses in the NFL and he's developed QB's like Warner and Bulger.

I'm not saying Smith walked into an ideal situation in SF but one of the reasons they had so many OC's(other than Turner who took a better job) is Smith got them all fired.

Singletary was NOT the guy coaching Alex Smith. The difference now is that the head coach actually is a huge part of coaching Alex Smith. There's a nice article in todays paper about Jerry Rice praising SF and he said before the season started after he talked to Harbaught he came away with one impression, SF would be ok if Harbaugh could find a way to limit what he asked Smith to do. As long as that worked they'd be ok, if they had to increase what they were asking of Alex, they were in trouble.

The notion that Smith was bad for years because of coaching is not true. he's certainly better now because of coaching but Harbaugh had a distinct advantage he had years of tape that he could look at telling him what Smith can't do, and he's not asking him to do that stuff. The prior coaches didn't have that luxury.

McCarthy was trying to run a WC system that's what he was hired to install, it's one reason they picked Smith they felt he fit that style better. He wasn't ready to do it and on they went.

But it's not really fair to say he got terrible coaching his first 2 coaches were among the most respected offensive coaches in the NFL.

McCarthy got hired away as the head coach as the Green Bay Packers, but if that's getting fired, then I certainly hope to get fired in that way.

Norv Turner improved Smith's play. I think he had like an 83 rating his season with Norv.

He was bad for years because he was getting yanked in and out of the lineup because he didn't get along with Nolan and no coach afterward had any investment in him to get better.

It's insanity to me that you can say over and over that bad coaching wasn't a problem for Smith, but now that he has good coaching he's somehow a good quarterback. What's changed for Smith, besides getting good coaching?

Is tape of Smith playing in Mike Martz's offense really the difference between Alex Smith in 2010 and Kevin Kolb? Are you for real?!

Yes, good coaches tailor their offenses to their personnel. That's what Harbaugh's doing. That's what Whisenhunt isn't doing. I'm certain that #7 could be just as productive as Smith is right now if we'd run a system that played to his strengths, instead of Whis's system which plays to no one's strengths.

 

[Capital Card]

I don't think he's lost his trust in the OL, he was rolling out of the pocket early the first game. I think that's what he has always done, and in Philly, who has a long history of mobile QB's, that wasn't something he was ever broken of.

I just don't think he knows the offense right now. By that, he may be able to sit at a table and repeat his 3rd or 4th option, but with the chaos around him during a game situation, I think his "flight" mechinism kicks in, and the called play goes out the window.

I also don't think he'll be comfortable in it this year, certainly not in the way that we need him to be. He came to us with potential, but not a lot of practical experience. He (the offense) is playing worse than I hoped for at this point, but I'm not totally surprised.

I'm still willing to wait around - though that last game was absolutely brutal to watch. I did manage to get the garage cleaned out though, so that was beneficial.

Go Cards!!!

 

[Duckjake]

If someone had told me on Sept 1st 2011 that 5 weeks into the season Beanie Wells would be averaging 20 carries a game at a 4.8ypc clip with 6TDs, the Defense would be ranked 16th in points allowed instead of their usual 29th, and that we had Kevin Kolb instead of DeWreck and MiniMax at QB and yet we would be 1-4 and just had the snot beat out of us by an 0-4 team I'd have called County Mental Health Services and had them taken in for an evaluation.

This franchise will flat out drive you crazy.