KTAR: "He doesn't listen to Fitz."

[overseascardfan]

Actually, it would not be correct to say he washed out at Texas A&M since their coach Kevin Sumlin had the program in shambles and everyone was trying to buck and run

I mean in the A&M situation it was less washing out and more something was extremely dysfunctional with their coaching staff. Both Kyler and Kyle Allen had the starting QB job at the time they each decided to transfer out. A very strange situation. I don't think anything like that has ever happened before at a major program.

Sumlin has had a great track record until recently with QB's (started with Drew Brees at Purdue). Manziel won a Heisman under Sumlin's watch and Sumlin did end up winning 51 games in 6 seasons at TAMU and won 35 games in 4 years at HOU. He hasn't been able to recruit at UA which is his problem.

Point is Kyle Allen was overrated as he was not the #1 player in AZ that year, his teammate Mark Andrews was. He was the #1 QB in a weak class in 2014. I also question if Kyler Murray would have had the success he had at OU if he went anywhere else. Murray skyrocketed up draft boards like 2 months before draft even after winning the Heisman, had he ended up at UCLA and put up bad numbers he would not have went #1.

With that said he will most likely have another HC than Kingsbury here so will he be able to fit into a new scheme? Even local sports radio guys are starting to wonder if Kingsbury's system won't last much longer. Maybe Murray wants Kingsbury gone but he should think long and hard about what happens with him in a new offensive system.

 

[Southpaw]

Actually, it would not be correct to say he washed out at Texas A&M since their coach Kevin Sumlin had the program in shambles and everyone was trying to buck and run

Sumlin is right at the top of the list alongside Tom Herman as most overrated HC in college ball. Murray fit in perfectly at OU since no one plays defense in the Big 12.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Sumlin has had a great track record until recently with QB's (started with Drew Brees at Purdue). Manziel won a Heisman under Sumlin's watch and Sumlin did end up winning 51 games in 6 seasons at TAMU and won 35 games in 4 years at HOU. He hasn't been able to recruit at UA which is his problem.

Point is Kyle Allen was overrated as he was not the #1 player in AZ that year, his teammate Mark Andrews was. He was the #1 QB in a weak class in 2014. I also question if Kyler Murray would have had the success he had at OU if he went anywhere else. Murray skyrocketed up draft boards like 2 months before draft even after winning the Heisman, had he ended up at UCLA and put up bad numbers he would not have went #1.

With that said he will most likely have another HC than Kingsbury here so will he be able to fit into a new scheme? Even local sports radio guys are starting to wonder if Kingsbury's system won't last much longer. Maybe Murray wants Kingsbury gone but he should think long and hard about what happens with him in a new offensive system.

Any QB who would puts up bad numbers is not going to get selected number one overall and Murray did not just put up good numbers but astronomical ones at OU. Everyone who follows high school football here in Texas would roll their eyes because you are implying he's way overrated and that he would have sucked at UCLA or why even insert the suggestion of bad numbers. I totally get and adhere to the premise that the NFL is whole different arena than college ball and it does not warrant mentioning high school football in comparison but being it's in the largest division in Texas which does then offer more than a grain of salt

Kyler is young and rather inexperience. His physical attributes are undeniable except for the ***** in his armor being his height. I am too disappointed in Kingsbury inability to provide a variant of his offense to get Kyler rolling out and allotting him a better way to play the hero ball which is being forced on him due to the talent he has around him. I can totally see Kingsbury failing due to his lack of game management but I have seen way way too many positives from Kyler so far to even remotely think he cannot be a franchise QB

 

[HairZach]

Sumlin has had a great track record until recently with QB's (started with Drew Brees at Purdue). Manziel won a Heisman under Sumlin's watch and Sumlin did end up winning 51 games in 6 seasons at TAMU and won 35 games in 4 years at HOU. He hasn't been able to recruit at UA which is his problem.

Point is Kyle Allen was overrated as he was not the #1 player in AZ that year, his teammate Mark Andrews was. He was the #1 QB in a weak class in 2014. I also question if Kyler Murray would have had the success he had at OU if he went anywhere else. Murray skyrocketed up draft boards like 2 months before draft even after winning the Heisman, had he ended up at UCLA and put up bad numbers he would not have went #1.

With that said he will most likely have another HC than Kingsbury here so will he be able to fit into a new scheme? Even local sports radio guys are starting to wonder if Kingsbury's system won't last much longer. Maybe Murray wants Kingsbury gone but he should think long and hard about what happens with him in a new offensive system.

Sumlin never was a QB coach, always a WR coach, which is what he was to Drew Brees. Sumlin's success with quarterbacks began when he made Kliff QB coach at Houston in 2010 and ended when Kliff left for Texas Tech.

I guess I agree with your other point. Murray is not guaranteed to have success in offensive systems not tailored to him. But I think all the talk about Murray not liking Kliff is pure speculation at this point.

 

[overseascardfan]

Any QB who would puts up bad numbers is not going to get selected number one overall and Murray did not just put up good numbers but astronomical ones at OU. Everyone who follows high school football here in Texas would roll their eyes because you are implying he's way overrated and that he would have sucked at UCLA or why even insert the suggestion of bad numbers. I totally get and adhere to the premise that the NFL is whole different arena than college ball and it does not warrant mentioning high school football in comparison but being it's in the largest division in Texas which does then offer more than a grain of salt

Kyler is young and rather inexperience. His physical attributes are undeniable except for the ***** in his armor being his height. I am too disappointed in Kingsbury inability to provide a variant of his offense to get Kyler rolling out and allotting him a better way to play the hero ball which is being forced on him due to the talent he has around him. I can totally see Kingsbury failing due to his lack of game management but I have seen way way too many positives from Kyler so far to even remotely think he cannot be a franchise QB

Because high school football is so closely watched and the fan base is over inflated in TX compared to everywhere else I'm sure opinions will differ. It is very common for kids to dominate in HS and peak at that level. In the last 5 years there have been numerous 4 and five star rated players leave the state of AZ and not live up to their recruiting rankings. The only names that really justified their hype are in my opinion in terms of success: Everson Griffin, Taylor Lewan, Cameron Jordan & Mark Andrews.

Murray put up astronomical numbers just like Mayfield did the year before and I am sure Rattler will before he leaves OU. It's more of a product of Lincoln Riley's scheme and lack of defense in the Big 12.

I do agree with your opinion that Murray has shown skills to be a good QB and his production is similar to Lamar Jackson's last year but the question is can he take the next step? You can argue he needs more weapons but the mistakes he's making with delivering the ball to his receivers which mainly can be attributed to his lack of height and arm angle, can he overcome those obstacles? But main question I will ask again, can he fit in something other than a Lincoln Riley & Kliff Kingsbury offense? Because I don't see Kingsbury lasting past next year the way his offense has under performed so far in a year and a half.

 

[BigRedRage]

Sumlin never was a QB coach, always a WR coach, which is what he was to Drew Brees. Sumlin's success with quarterbacks began when he made Kliff QB coach at Houston in 2010 and ended when Kliff left for Texas Tech.

I guess I agree with your other point. Murray is not guaranteed to have success in offensive systems not tailored to him. But I think all the talk about Murray not liking Kliff is pure speculation at this point.

Speculation only existing here too

 

[TaylorSwift]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...ay-responds-criticism-brock-huard/3866733001/

“Some of what I was hearing coming out of there is that Kyler is laser-focused on Sunday, he loves to compete, but that laser focus is not there Monday through Saturday and I think you’ve seen that show up on Sundays,” Huard said.

Its a comment, its interesting. Seems like K1 could use a veteran qb or someone who knows the NFL pass game well to help him through the process.

Id like to know what "laser focus" means, because this could mean a lot of things.

Earlier they were getting on K1 for being too withdrawn from teammates, now in attempt to lighten up practice he lacks "laser focus."

But the film doesn't lie. Every one has a hand in this mess, but it stinks at the top with poor leadership from the HC position.

Cant call plays
Cant manage the clock
Cant lead men

He will need the grace of god to turn this around.

Edit:

And Hop needs to shop up to practice. He has been given tremendous leeway in feigning injury or illness to come in only on Fridays for a walk through since the beginning of the season.

What sort s*** is this????? How are you supposed to establish repertoire with your new qb in a first year offense in a season impacted like none other?

This team is a country club

 

[Finito]

Holy crap. This thread is comical.

 

[cardncubfan]

This is the first time Murray is facing extended adversity. He’s always had tremendous success at every level and now the past few weeks have shown a side of Murray that he doesnt know how to fix just yet. KK needs to be better at helping him as well.

I would think last year would be the first time.

 

[Southpaw]

Speculation only existing here too

I will speculate that Murray is "uncoachable".

 

[Chopper0080]

Holy crap. This thread is comical.

Really?

First you have a local reporter.

Now you have a national broadcaster.

Usually, where there is smoke, there is fire. Hard for me to believe that two individuals would put their credibility on the line to just make this up.

 

[Chopper0080]

I will speculate that Murray is "uncoachable".

He wouldn't be the first talented player who tried to get bye on athletic talent alone. Man, if this is true, it won't end well. QBs who don't love the grind rarely last long.

 

[DeAnna]

You have no proof of anything, just making up stuff as you go.

Huh? Why would I make up stuff? Just repeating what Dave Pasch, Wolfley, et al, have stated verbally - numerous times.

 

[BigRedRage]

Huh? Why would I make up stuff? Just repeating what Dave Pasch, Wolfley, et al, have stated verbally - numerous times.

Cardinals radio people are saying this?

lots of people calling for him to go under center, but K1 hates it and won't do it. Time for KK2 and Keim to put their foot down 'cause he's acting like a petulant child.

I'd be curious of that.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Cardinals radio people are saying this?

Yup.

Take it for what it is.

Regardless, win football games and no one cares.

 

[BigRedRage]

Yup.

Take it for what it is.

Regardless, win football games and no one cares.

they say he "Won't" play under center and he is being a petulant child about it? We have clips of this? Seems excessive and he doesnt call the plays.

 

[WisconsinCard]

they say he "Won't" play under center and he is being a petulant child about it? We have clips of this? Seems excessive and he doesnt call the plays.

Man that would be concerning. He should be will to do whatever it takes to win ball games.

Just to add to that it would be so "Cardinal" to finally get a QBOTF and him not want to be great

 

[BigRedRage]

Man that would be concerning. He should be will to do whatever it takes to win ball games.

Just to add to that it would be so "Cardinal" to finally get a QBOTF and him not want to be great

I don't think it's accurate

 

[WisconsinCard]

I don't think it's accurate

Sure hope not.

 

[overseascardfan]

I saw on ESPN on Sunday after game, forget the football guy analyzing the game but he mentioned Murray was not throwing to Hopkins in first half because he was afraid of Jalen Ramsey and had to be told at halftime by Kingsbury that he had to throw the ball to Hopkins even if he was being covered by Ramsey because they had to get him in the game.

I didn't watch game so not sure if Hopkins had any targets in first half or if he did but Ramsey wasn't covering him so I can't validate what the guy claimed.

 

[BigRedRage]

I saw on ESPN on Sunday after game, forget the football guy analyzing the game but he mentioned Murray was not throwing to Hopkins in first half because he was afraid of Jalen Ramsey and had to be told at halftime by Kingsbury that he had to throw the ball to Hopkins even if he was being covered by Ramsey because they had to get him in the game.

I didn't watch game so not sure if Hopkins had any targets in first half or if he did but Ramsey wasn't covering him so I can't validate what the guy claimed.

The problem with it is it is just that guys conjecture as to why it hasn't happened yet

 

[overseascardfan]

The problem with it is it is just that guys conjecture as to why it hasn't happened yet

What hasn't happened yet?

I don't think Kyler has doubts about himself. I think he doubts everyone else (coaches and players). Maybe he didn't target Hopkins because he was afraid he wouldn't be able to catch on Ramsey. Maybe he refuses to line up under C because he has been running for his life from the shotgun the last couple of weeks because the OL has looked like crap so lining up under C takes away time for to him to see who's coming and either get through his reads or escape.

I do agree with you BRR that we don't know what's going on inside the head of Murray but we can only wonder / speculate at this point.

 

[BigRedRage]

What hasn't happened yet?

I don't think Kyler has doubts about himself. I think he doubts everyone else (coaches and players). Maybe he didn't target Hopkins because he was afraid he wouldn't be able to catch on Ramsey. Maybe he refuses to line up under C because he has been running for his life from the shotgun the last couple of weeks because the OL has looked like crap so lining up under C takes away time for to him to see who's coming and either get through his reads or escape.

I do agree with you BRR that we don't know what's going on inside the head of Murray but we can only wonder / speculate at this point.

Hadn't happened* throwing to hop in first half.

 

[overseascardfan]

Hadn't happened* throwing to hop in first half.

Ah. Again I didn't watch game so I guess the avoiding Jalen Ramsey for whatever reason has some merit.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Look, unless they are going to drop some name, which is responsible for the information, some name which we would respect, then this is all bull crap conjecture