Kurt Warner - Sunday Conversation on ESPN

[TigToad]

See, I'm glad you wrote this post. I've been reading a lot of very angry sounding, Kurt supportive messages the past few days. Despite this posts bizarre use of capital letters and extraneous punctuation, we have the other side's argument.

You think Kurt is still a top 5 quarterback.

I think Kurt is a very good quarterback who benefits from the system in Arizona.

We disagree on what we think is fair market value for Kurt.

Thats it, this discussion really does not need to be more heated than this. We can leave the name calling, organization bashing, player bashing, and finger pointing out of it now.

Some feel 8 million is too much, others want to stop at 10 mil, others 12 mil and more think 15 mil would be fine. The Cardinals and Kurt obviously have a number in their heads as well, and the nature of the NFL is they will either work out something fair for both sides or another team will decide what is more fair.

It really should never become personal. Its just business.

Deleted

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The thing he doesn't seem to get is the he is being compensated for his past to the tune of 10mill+. If he would've stunk,or got hurt last year, he wouldn't even have a contract offer. He didn't so the Cards have offered him a raise to a somehwere around 150+% of last years salary. He wants more than double and seems to come across that he was the only reason they made it to the Super Bowl.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Calm down Campos; you are going overboard...

 

[D-Dogg]

Good god you're a dick.

Short, succinct and 100% on target.

Easily post of the week right there.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Deleted

Wow... not a bad rant at all.... it ranks with some of the best for sure! Nicely done!!

And for the record, while I don't believe we got to the SB just because of Kurt, I do believe if Matty were our QB, we would not have made it passed a game in the playoffs...

 

[Carddan]

I watched the interview and didn't have any problem with it. Kurt didn't sound whiney or bitchy to me. He is trying to maximize his earnings at the end of his career. I think he should emphasize what he will do for the team as opposed for what he has done, but consider the alternatives. Do you prefer the way a Rosenhaus client handles negotiations? Kurt is not out there saying negative things about the team, he is not saying the Cardinals are cheap, he is not saying "same ol' Cards. We have plenty of fans for that. I think the Cardinals should and will stick to their offer. Maybe they will move a little more money to "guaranteed". I really don't understand the polarity this situation creates in the fan base. No one knows how it will turn out. Could you imagine the medication some of our fans would need if the Cardinals paid Kurt 14 million per year, he got hurt in pre-season, and then the Cardinals won the super Bowl behind Matt Leinart? That scenario, while very unlikely, would probably kill off half of the people on this message board. Me? I'ld be just fine. Go Cardinals!!!

 

[bg7brd]

LOL..Why because I get upset over this? Again this proves to me the brain power of alot of the fans. 39 years old....Daughter who is 8. Born May 8, 1969. Look I could care less what you think...again. We wnt to the SuperBowl...period. With the pieces we HAD. Now some want to get paid...and you guys say f off??? That is why we havent won a championship in 67 years. But again if you DONT like me ...place me on ignore!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's right. We did go to the super bowl..... with this FO. Haven't they done enough for us to give them the benefit of the doubt?
Next year you'll be 40. You'll be a man!!!!

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Settle down everyone.

Pariah, your comment was overboard.

Cards_Campos, just because people disagree with you doesn't make you smarter or a better fan.

Relax everyone.

 

[D-Dogg]

That is why this site is flooded with fans who have no clue what got us to the superbowl.

I really wouldn't call you and your ilk a "flood." More like a trickle.

 

[D-Dogg]

Wow... not a bad rant at all.... it ranks with some of the best for sure! Nicely done!!

It's right up there with BroncoGirl1, that's for sure.

 

[LittleDavis]

I watched the interview and didn't have any problem with it. Kurt didn't sound whiney or bitchy to me. He is trying to maximize his earnings at the end of his career. I think he should emphasize what he will do for the team as opposed for what he has done, but consider the alternatives. Do you prefer the way a Rosenhaus client handles negotiations? Kurt is not out there saying negative things about the team, he is not saying the Cardinals are cheap, he is not saying "same ol' Cards. We have plenty of fans for that. I think the Cardinals should and will stick to their offer. Maybe they will move a little more money to "guaranteed". I really don't understand the polarity this situation creates in the fan base. No one knows how it will turn out. Could you imagine the medication some of our fans would need if the Cardinals paid Kurt 14 million per year, he got hurt in pre-season, and then the Cardinals won the super Bowl behind Matt Leinart? That scenario, while very unlikely, would probably kill off half of the people on this message board. Me? I'ld be just fine. Go Cardinals!!!

Good post...thanks.

 

[Stout]

I watched the interview and didn't have any problem with it. Kurt didn't sound whiney or bitchy to me. He is trying to maximize his earnings at the end of his career. I think he should emphasize what he will do for the team as opposed for what he has done, but consider the alternatives. Do you prefer the way a Rosenhaus client handles negotiations? Kurt is not out there saying negative things about the team, he is not saying the Cardinals are cheap, he is not saying "same ol' Cards. We have plenty of fans for that. I think the Cardinals should and will stick to their offer. Maybe they will move a little more money to "guaranteed". I really don't understand the polarity this situation creates in the fan base. No one knows how it will turn out. Could you imagine the medication some of our fans would need if the Cardinals paid Kurt 14 million per year, he got hurt in pre-season, and then the Cardinals won the super Bowl behind Matt Leinart? That scenario, while very unlikely, would probably kill off half of the people on this message board. Me? I'ld be just fine. Go Cardinals!!!

Kurt's pretty smart with how he's doing it, but it still doesn't make it right. You can smile, thank God, be an outwardly great person all you want. But if you want paid compensation for perceived bad contracts in years past, if you want way more than you should get, and if you want to shrug and wonder why the deal isn't done and the next second admit you haven't even figured out yourself what you are worth, then all that other stuff is just cosmetics.

Kurt would make one hell of a politician, that's for sure. Too bad he doesn't have a single lick of leverage.

 

[Cody]

If he wants compensation for past accomplishments then the Cardinals should drop the offer for him completely sucking in 2005 and 2006. They should also deduct $$ off the offer for fumbling when he should have thrown the ball away or taking a sack instead of getting rid of the ball, or for making dumb throws in double or triple coverage. If that's the case I think a 2 year $4 million incentive laden contact is fair.........

nice

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

shocking. for all his god love and adoption of orphans (right?) (which does likely make him a better man) he's still just a greedy athlete. and now that's exposed for the world to see. he's as clueless as all the others.

 

[Carddan]

Stout, I'll wait and see what he does before I judge. I agree he's a lousy politician, but isn't that a good thing in today's world? If he signs with the Cardinals for reasonable compensation without flaming the organization, he will have lost no respect from me. I realize that is an "if", but isn't everything we're discussing?

 

[CardsFan88]

I'm on board with signing warner, as mentioned earlier.

But the whole 'I want to be paid for past accomplishments, yada yada' seems a bit screwy.

Are we paying for the Rams, Giants not signing him to huge deals? Would the niners be paying for him not getting a huge deal here?

Also he is getting paid for past accomplishments. Thus the incentives that he reached this season, and got millions more for it.

I still want Warner, but if he really feels like that imo his reasoning is a bit off and is starting to sound stupid.

 

[Cody]

screw warner. we need to start to find a future qb now. so why not play leinart this year to see if he can play before we resign him, warner can't play forever. lets use the 15mil elsewhere


LEINART IN 09!!!

 

[Dayman]

Warner seems to think gigantic contracts at the end of NFL players' careers are common. They're not. Ray Lewis is finding that out right now, yet he's not appearing on every talk show he can find. I think the whole Leno/Ellen treatment has gone to Kurt's head way too much.

 

[moklerman]

screw warner. we need to start to find a future qb now.

Isn't that exactly what many were arguing last year at this time?

But the whole 'I want to be paid for past accomplishments, yada yada' seems a bit screwy.

He doesn't want to be paid for past accomplishments, he wants to get a deal that's in line with what he's done the last two years and be paid like a starter. He hasn't been cheated but he has outperformed the contracts that he's been under the last couple of years.

He isn't trying to renegotiate his deal though. This is completely different than the Anquan or Fitzgerald situation and Warner's being chastised for not taking the "fair" deal. It would certainly be nice for the Cards if he took as little as possible but why are so many fans upset that he's trying to get as much as he can in a contract negotiation? He isn't asking for the most or a long term deal, he just wants a deal in line with the #3 QB in the league and the best in the NFC.

And $10M is too low just like $16M is too high. $12M-$13M is right and I bet would get it done.

 

[JeffGollin]

Bottom line is - considering the parties involved - getting this deal done shouldn't be rocket science..

I'm not terribly thrilled with Warner or with the Cardinals.

 

[Cody]

i don't wanna spend 12-13 mil on a 38 yr old qb. i wouldn't spend 10... we need a future qb eventually so lets start looking now and see if leinart is the right guy..plus we'd save 13mil which could be used elsewhere

 

[Mitch]

Warner lost points in this ESPN interview, IMO.

He appears to be a confused man right now...and has been since the Pro Bowl.

First he was contemplating retirement.

Then he said if he was to continue paying it would only be with the Cardinals.

Then he said it would make his decision to play easier if the Cardinals took care of Q.

And even though Warner was supposedly mulling retirement, his agent was already declaring that Warner was certainly going to play and was already making contact with the Cardinals' FO.

On last week's Dan Patrick Show Warner claimed he would take less money for Q to be taken care of.

In this ESPN interview with Trey Wingo, Wingo said, "You've said you wanted to play for the Cardinals and they have said they want you back. What's the problem"

To which Warner said, "I have no idea. We thought it would be easier than this. We keep asking ourselves why hasn't this been done yet."

When reminded that the Cardinals have offered him $10-12M a year (Wingo's tone implied that the Cardinals' offer is a good one) and asked about his market value Warner said, "we are still trying to figure that out."

Warner's confusion, combined with Wingo's insinuations that the Cardinals have made a good offer, made Warner look a little foolish, IMO.

What makes Warner's situation a little more unusual, contract-wise, is that the contract will only be for two years, as Warner only intends to play for two more years. Thus, to want top 5 money, he's comparing his own numbers to those of franchise QBs who were signed to long-term deals. It's a little more feasible for teams to offer franchise QBs lucrative long-term deals, in that those teams have invested in them for the present and the future.

The Cardinals' investment in Warner is strictly in the present.

That does make a difference, IMO.

Warner needs to stop appeasing his agents (who clearly have their issues with Warner for being so candid about wanting to sign only with the Cardinals, and most likely for telling Wingo that they were still trying to figure out his market value)...and make the decision to work out the deal so that both Warner and the Cardinals feel satisfied with it.

If Warner actually goes through with his visit to SF...he had better be convinced he is better off signing with them because they will not want him to leave without a commitment and they certainly wouldn't want to feel like suckers for helping Warner feather his own nest in Arizona.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Superb analysis, IMO... Mitch...

 

[imaCafan]

Another thing about those contracts is (I would guess anyway) they are back loaded contracts. Therefore, in reality though they might "average" $15 mil a year, they will be like Fitz's previous deal, where the final year or two would force teams to renegotiate those deals. Just like Haynesworth's deal is , in reality, not really a $100 mil deal. Or have I got this wrong????

 

[moklerman]

Warner's confusion, combined with Wingo's insinuations that the Cardinals have made a good offer, made Warner look a little foolish, IMO

I would say that he's being non-commital more than being confused. It seems like he's making an effort to not say any particular numbers.

Thus, to want top 5 money, he's comparing his own numbers to those of franchise QBs who were signed to long-term deals. It's a little more feasible for teams to offer franchise QBs lucrative long-term deals,

That doesn't make sense. Warner on a short term deal would get more because it's based on present production. The long term deals signed by others would be less per year over the length of the contract and are skewed all out of whack because long term deals are never realized.

To me, an analogy that seems to fit is buying "an" item vs. buying bulk. If you buy 1 can of soda it's going to cost you much more than if you buy the case. You want a nice, cold can of soda now, you pay a little more and realize the returns right away. You buy the case and you know you've got soda for a while but you have to put in the fridge, let it get cold and hope that it's a flavor that you actually like otherwise you've got 23 of the suckers sitting there in the fridge taking up space. If you buy a nice, cold, single can of something and find out it's been on the shelf too long and gone stale, then toss it and move on.