The cap space is a loss this year and a gain next year since you add one year to your rookie QB deal and Rosen's cap hit is gone.
Kyler Murray races 4.31 second 40-yard speed demon Andy Isabella (Video)
- Thread starter Tyler Jaggi
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The cap space is a loss this year and a gain next year since you add one year to your rookie QB deal and Rosen's cap hit is gone.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Right...so you have one of the worst offensive seasons in history and then you trade up to get Murray. The total costs ARENT that high when comparing to other deals.
So Murray gained the weight and has been acclimating to his weight gain. As you see by the video, hes still stupid fast.
If were talking about Murray at 230? That's insane.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
You're leaving out the $20 million in dead salary cap money. IF the deal was made as you suggest, 2 1sts plus some extra for #1 overall and a 2nd sounds like a good deal, but the extrernalities aren't hypothetical.
The Cards are having to offer a bush-league referral program to try and get some season ticket sales. Kyler Murray isn't psyching up people outside the ASFN bubble.
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I see that he's fast. I knew that already so it doesn't change it for me. I need to see him read defenses and make the right decision when to run and get down or out of bounds and when to throw the ball away. That will only happen for me in games.
So I'm thrilled he impressed people so far, and I'm thrilled he ran fast etc, but in the end I didn't see enough of him in college to form an opinion until he plays in real games. I see the tremendous upside, I see the risk. I'm willing to wait and see how it works out.
So I'm thrilled he impressed people so far, and I'm thrilled he ran fast etc, but in the end I didn't see enough of him in college to form an opinion until he plays in real games. I see the tremendous upside, I see the risk. I'm willing to wait and see how it works out.
Solar7
Go Suns
I mean, that could be said of pretty much any dead cap, that it's going away eventually?
But keep in mind, Kyler's contract is also a good chunk of coin larger than Rosen's was. $35 million with a $23 million signing bonus compared to $17 million with an $11 million signing bonus.
The dead cap hit is a player that could have filled a glaring hole for us at ILB or DL.
JeffGollin
ASFN Icon
Just guessing but the most logical scenario would be:
Late last season, it becomes obvious that things aren't working out, and there are better than even odds that we'll finish #32 (or at best maybe #30). Michael B (& probably other members of mgt) conclude that "it ain't working" and a major remake would be necessary. One very attractive option would be to switch to an entirely different offensive system under a hot college coach (i.e. Kingsbury).
Things start to fall into place as the season-ending draws closer. The likelihood of drafting Murray (with #1 and even at #2 or 3) becomes more and more likely (& tempting). More pieces fall into place, and Cards wind up with a comprehensive overhaul that includes a new coach, new system and new QB. (Ditching Rosen becomes a desirable afterthought).
Therefore - The whole K2 and K1 deal wasn't due to some orchestrated, "scheme" but the right things fell into place to pave the way for it to happen.
+1
We'll see. I need to see him play at NFL speed and read a D before I get excited with him.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
No. The Cardinals could've signed another DL or ILB if they had wanted to. Team building isnt like Madden.
The team is giving Reddick an opportunity to win the job. And they used a fairly high draft pick on DL and will rotate players.
Crimson Warrior
Dangerous Murray Zealot
I appreciate you understanding the bolded idea Krang.
It's really integral to an effective decision-making process regarding the use of currently available resources.
Solar7
Go Suns
With the sacrifice of someone else or restructuring deals, yeah. There's no way you can convince me that $20 million in dead cap is just a "whatever" thing, and I'm not sure why you're so hellbent on insisting it's not a problem. Along with Bradford's hit, it's complete ineptitude in roster management last year, and Keim takes the blame for that.
Yuma
Suns are my Kryptonite!
Technically, he only has to be faster than DL and LBers. I assume he will get some downfield blocks on safeties and CBs by his WRs.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Crazy ineptitude??
Hyperbole. They brought in a starting QB and moved on from a historically bad rookie. QBs are expensive.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Ineptitude would be the Gresham deal. THAT was an awful move, that literally no one thought was a good deal at the time. It probably ended up worse than most anticipated.
A starting, veteran QB costs around 20 mil. It's just a fact of the NFL. The deal was basically structured to be a one year deal, but the make up of poopy offense, poopy o line, and poor receivers completely doomed Bradford. He has never been a guy who makes players around him better.
I do agree that moving on from Rosen was a worse move even though I like it. Worse move financially that is. Why I like it? If you know you made a mistake, move on.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
The team went from 8-8 to 3-13 and the number one pick in the draft. There’s no way to spin that roster management into a positive. Maybe the garbage 2018 season ends up being a blessing in disguise if Murray becomes one of the most exciting players in the league by the end of the year, but it’s too early to say that now.
I’m mystified that the Murray stans can’t be patient before taking victory laps.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Victory laps? That's bullcrap.
The Murray Derangement syndrome crowd fight any bit of positive news on Murray. One way or another, one side is going to look really silly, that's for sure.
He was referring to crazy ineptitude on managing the QB situation.
The rest of the roster? I'd argue that the team was in a need for a rebuild. The roster was getting old, slow, and expensive. They kept the band together for one too many years under Arians when it was apparent a rebuild was needed.
We've heard rumblings that Michael is the impatient one, Michael is a meddler.
Just like with the Suns, if a team needs to rebuild, but instead it invests in veterans to win now, you get ugly results. At least the Cardinals roster has a top 5 pass rusher, a top five corner, and a few other good building blocks to bounce back quick.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
You’re not even taking about Murray, and I’m certainly not. You’re so unhinged that any choice — however accidental — that lead to Murray is now good(???).
The team didn’t get any parts of the rebuild that might have started last year. Justin Pugh remains just as much a question mark today. All the corners are gone.
Again, there’s no world where paying Sam Bradford $20 million for four starts and eight games on the roster is actually good roster management. No one wanted him then, and no one wanted him now. He couldn’t hold off historically bad rookie Josh Rosen for sixteen full quarters! That’s bad!
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
It's not complete ineptitude, that's my point.
Jiminty cricket. Most on this board were ok with Bradford AND drafting Rosen. I'm not a Rosen fan, but I still think he can be ok, and could have been a lot better last year even.
It's impossible to figure out what were bad moves last year, because the #1 bad move was hiring Wilks. Wilks was Dave Mac bad. In all .y years as a Cardinals fan, I dont think I've seen a worse coaching staff performance. Ive seen much worse rosters though. Justin Pugh is better than dozens of guards that have started for the Cardinals.
RON_IN_OC
https://www.ronevansrealty.com
I think Kingsbury was hired before Murray ever decided to declare for the NFL Draft.
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RON_IN_OC
https://www.ronevansrealty.com
Isn't Andy turning his head to Murray, too? IMO he wasn't running full throttle."Kyler Murray races 4.31 second 40-yard speed demon Andy Isabella (Video)"
Murray jumped the start and Isabella looks taller.
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About a week between Kingsbury being hired and Murray declaring for the draft
Jetstream Green
Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
It's called being a fan and this is entertainment which anticipation is part of the allure for a team you root for. Now if this was not a fan site for the Cardinals but a broad national site based on nonobjective views... you would be right
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Yes. Look how excited fans were about Bradford last season: https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/sam-bradford-a-cardinal.259870/
The enthusiasm is palpable. That “Not Glennon” energy was very strong.
Man, molkerman unhinged Bradford enthusiasm was impressive.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Like I said again, most were ok with him as the bridge guy. Few were whining about how much he was paid. The board was ecstatic a month or two later with Rosen in fold. We were collectively wrong.
RugbyMuffin
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PACardsFan
ASFN Icon
I agree with your post. The Cardinal FO was definitely too slow in realizing that the window had slammed shut once Carolina embarrassed us in the NFC Championship game. Somehow, BA convinced Keim that all we needed to do was add a few more veterans & we could contend again. That didn't happen, so we really did walk BA out the door. If he didn't retire, he would have been fired. Exit BA, enter Wilks. Yes, definitely one of the worst hires in Cardinal history. There will never be a more inept coaching staff, top to bottom, than last years group. I'm not a Bradford guy, but it was our system & schemes that sunk the ship, not Bradford. There was enough talent in that locker room last year for us to be considerably better than we were. We all know that. MB meddled & forced the Wilks hire. If Murray becomes what I think he'll become, then maybe we'll someday soon thank MB for that meddling.
Crimson Warrior
Dangerous Murray Zealot
In my humble opinion, what we saw in 2018 was Keim hitting rock-bottom as a professional, and taking a peek into the abyss as a human being.
kerouac9, if your point is that, in 2018, the Cardinals were a very, very badly managed organization, I would agree. Krang, are you contesting this?
@Krang, how much Keim was sober, and focused on his job, after the conclusion of the 2017 season, is a matter of debate. But I'm guessing he had a drinking problem that got out of control in 2018, and everybody associated with the Cardinals paid the price for this.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Badly managed for years.
The problem with the 2018 goes back to the beginning of the Keim regime. That was a team that needed to ID a young QB and rebuild. Moves to win now sometimes come at the expense of winning later.
Last years Cardinals had few offensive playmakers, poor playcalling, and an offensive line that severely lacked depth and also was trying to fit in three new starters which is tough for any team.
I was watching game tape from the 2009 Cardinals playoff win over the Packers. That was a BAD offensive line, but that offensive line stayed fairly healthy and had a few years of continuity.
On offense, I think Murray and one or two of the receivers will emerge to go with Fitz and Kirk. I think Johnson is going to reestablish himself as a good starting RB.
I think the defense is going to be top 15, but will have growing pains while PP21 is out. I think Reddick will take the next step and become a solid ILB this year.
6-10 to 9-7 is my prediction.
