Kyler Murray Stat Line

[blindseyed]

QB2 is Murray, but not sure who QB1 is.

Wentz

 

[SoonerLou]

Wentz

Nope..

Andrew Luck.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It would be awesome if David Johnson continued having the best season of his career every year, but I don't think that it's fair or reasonable to assume that someone's going to repeat their best season every year. David Johnson didn't, and neither did Carson Wentz.

And that's okay! Tom Brady never matched his 2007 season, but in the 10 seasons(!!!!) since he tore his knee up, he's AVERAGED over 4400 yards, 33TDs and 9 INTs a year. That's wild.

Remember when people were like "Imagine if Michael Vick could pass like Dan Marino — that's Kyler Murray" before the draft? If you want a reason that people are mad online, its because that's not what the Cards have gotten so far. That's an unreasonable expectation, but some people don't really want to admit that they overhyped the kid and he hasn't been that.

But I guess my question is: why are you so worked up about other posters hyping up someone? I mean, who cares?

 

[DVontel]

But I guess my question is: why are you so worked up about other posters hyping up someone? I mean, who cares?

Just so odd. Never understood this outside the sports world either.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I agree: you should have higher expectations for #1 overall picks than you do for 6th round picks, Top 15 picks, and 3rd round picks.

For their careers, yes. For their first three games? Silly. You should judge them based on facts like how many games have they played? What talent do they have? What talent surrounds them? What coaching do they have? Who are they playing against? Not what at what pick they were made.

Many players are drafted in the first round based on talent and coach them up. Some succeed some fail. But it isn’t because of their draft position. And they’re drafted at that position not expecting immediate returns but what they could become with time and development.

If we drafted kyler expecting him to be a developed finished product in year one we are a really dumb bunch of fans.

I’d argue the only time to even raise draft position is when talking about Keim. Kyler didn’t pick himself #1.

 

[kerouac9]

But I guess my question is: why are you so worked up about other posters hyping up someone? I mean, who cares?

Because it wasn't just about hyping up their guy, they took a dump on ANYONE who disagreed with them, and acted like any question was coming from a place of total ignorance about football. That was the part that was hard. Today, some of them have come around and said, "I'm very excited about where Kyler's going, but he's not there right now." That's the correct take.

It's the cultists who are a problem. It's certainly not as bad as it was in April or May.

 

[gimpy]

Cultists?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Nope..

Andrew Luck.

Oh he must’ve sucked and never amounted to anything.

 

[kerouac9]

For their careers, yes. For their first three games? Silly. You should judge them based on facts like how many games have they played? What talent do they have? What talent surrounds them? What coaching do they have? Who are they playing against? Not what at what pick they were made.

Many players are drafted in the first round based on talent and coach them up. Some succeed some fail. But it isn’t because of their draft position.

I’d argue the only time to even raise draft position is when talking about Keim. Kyler didn’t pick himself #1.

See, I think it's entirely the opposite. Draft position only matters on the first contract. I obviously expect a #1 overall pick to develop much, much faster than a 3rd round pick. Anything that you get out of a 6th round pick outside of a season of special teams play is a bonus.

There are so many unpredictable factors even three years out with a team that you can't be successful projecting out your picks more than that. Injury is just the start. You can have a situation where one of your complementary pieces that you're planning on doesn't pan out (a Michael Floyd or Robert Nkemdiche situation), or you can have a guy that significantly outplays the contract that you'd planned on.

If a guy can play in the league, you're going to figure that out pretty quickly. But I expect a top pick to be accelerated in that position. I'm not paying a Top 15 pick as a player that I'm going to develop over a couple of seasons.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Because it wasn't just about hyping up their guy, they took a dump on ANYONE who disagreed with them, and acted like any question was coming from a place of total ignorance about football. That was the part that was hard. Today, some of them have come around and said, "I'm very excited about where Kyler's going, but he's not there right now." That's the correct take.

It's the cultists who are a problem. It's certainly not as bad as it was in April or May.

They’re only a “problem” in your mind if you let them be. I don’t think they’re a problem. And I don’t think they’re much different than the rose colored glasses cardinals fans that don’t find anything wrong with the cardinals, ever. Same thing just ones focused on a whole team and one is focused in a player. So again i wonder, why does it bother you so much more when it’s this particular player?

 

[kerouac9]

They’re only a “problem” in your mind if you let them be. I don’t think they’re a problem. And I don’t think they’re much different than the rose colored glasses cardinals fans that don’t find anything wrong with the cardinals, ever. Same thing just ones focused on a whole team and one is focused in a player. So again i wonder, why does it bother you so much more when it’s this particular player?

Why do you care that it bothers/bothered me?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

See, I think it's entirely the opposite. Draft position only matters on the first contract. I obviously expect a #1 overall pick to develop much, much faster than a 3rd round pick. Anything that you get out of a 6th round pick outside of a season of special teams play is a bonus.

There are so many unpredictable factors even three years out with a team that you can't be successful projecting out your picks more than that. Injury is just the start. You can have a situation where one of your complementary pieces that you're planning on doesn't pan out (a Michael Floyd or Robert Nkemdiche situation), or you can have a guy that significantly outplays the contract that you'd planned on.

If a guy can play in the league, you're going to figure that out pretty quickly. But I expect a top pick to be accelerated in that position. I'm not paying a Top 15 pick as a player that I'm going to develop over a couple of seasons.

Then I don’t know what to tell you bc 9 times outta 10 at the QB position I think you’re line of thinking is just flat out unrealistic. QBs have to be developed. Rare is the QB that comes into the league fully baked.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Why do you care that it bothers/bothered me?

I guess in retrospect, I don’t. So I’ll stop my side of the conversation. You do you.

 

[kerouac9]

Then I don’t know what to tell you bc 9 times outta 10 at the QB position I think you’re line of thinking is just flat out unrealistic. QBs have to be developed. Rare is the QB that comes into the league fully baked.

All QBs are probably thrown into the fire too soon, but who needs to be developed more, a Top 5 QB, a 3rd round QB, or a 6th round QB? Why not just draft at random if there's no difference between the prospects?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

All QBs are probably thrown into the fire too soon, but who needs to be developed more, a Top 5 QB, a 3rd round QB, or a 6th round QB? Why not just draft at random if there's no difference between the prospects?

I would imagine the one that is farther away from their ceiling or the guy that is less experienced. Kyler was drafted #1 for more reasons than how developed he already is. His fit in the offense and his ceiling as a dual threat QB are big parts of why he was drafted where he was. He was also a 1 year college starter so it isn't crazy to think that he might need a little more time than a guy that started 3-4 years.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

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Is this right? Rosen has only started ONE game through week 3, and had six drops by receivers in that game, and is now on this list?

Man, I feel sorry for the hand that kid has been dealt.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

All QBs are probably thrown into the fire too soon, but who needs to be developed more, a Top 5 QB, a 3rd round QB, or a 6th round QB? Why not just draft at random if there's no difference between the prospects?

Talent and projection.

 

[sdscard4]

Kyler is a stud period.

 

[Stout]

Because it wasn't just about hyping up their guy, they took a dump on ANYONE who disagreed with them, and acted like any question was coming from a place of total ignorance about football. That was the part that was hard. Today, some of them have come around and said, "I'm very excited about where Kyler's going, but he's not there right now." That's the correct take.

It's the cultists who are a problem. It's certainly not as bad as it was in April or May.

Yep. Posters questioned your freaking football knowledge if you didn't acknowledge the greatness of KM in the offeason. It was freaking nauseating.

 

[TheCardFan]

All QBs are probably thrown into the fire too soon, but who needs to be developed more, a Top 5 QB, a 3rd round QB, or a 6th round QB? Why not just draft at random if there's no difference between the prospects?

1st round picks are the biggest gambles. They get paid the most and receive the most scrutiny.

Every single player is a projection and the bust potential is very high in every round.

In addition, players get "hyped" into the first round every year. Not necessarily because of what they have done on the field but what they have done at the combine/what someone may project them to do in the NFL. Its a fools game and millions are thrown away by NFL teams every year.

Top 5 QB - Jared Goff
3rd rd QB - Russell Wilson
6th rd QB - Tom Brady
UDFA QB - Kurt Warner

Each of these QB's have developed differently and each of them have taken their teams to the Super Bowl (3/4 have won).

Either all talent evaluators in the NFL suck or there really is no way to truly pick talent at a consistent level.

 

[Chopper0080]

But I guess my question is: why are you so worked up about other posters hyping up someone? I mean, who cares?

Personally, I didn't have an issue with the hype. Where I got irritated is when people called me a hater, and told me i didn't know football when I didn't buy into it.

I am all for people on this board saying..."I hear your argument, but I just think Murray is the guy to turn this franchise around despite your concerns. I think Kyler is going to be amazing!" I get that, that's why people get excited about UDFAs and 6th round picks who show out in the preseason. I do it too. But when you dismiss and attack people who don't agree with your over-hyped opinion, you can't backtrack your position later on when he is not living up to the standard you set by stating he is a rookie and needs to be given time. All you have to say is "yeah...I thought he would be further along and could do more with a mediocre roster, but I still think he is going to develop into a game changer" instead of "you are an idiot, you don't understand football, you are biased, and it is the fault of all of the other players around him".

 

[BW52]

Personally, I didn't have an issue with the hype. Where I got irritated is when people called me a hater, and told me i didn't know football when I didn't buy into it.

I am all for people on this board saying..."I hear your argument, but I just think Murray is the guy to turn this franchise around despite your concerns. I think Kyler is going to be amazing!" I get that, that's why people get excited about UDFAs and 6th round picks who show out in the preseason. I do it too. But when you dismiss and attack people who don't agree with your over-hyped opinion, you can't backtrack your position later on when he is not living up to the standard you set by stating he is a rookie and needs to be given time. All you have to say is "yeah...I thought he would be further along and could do more with a mediocre roster, but I still think he is going to develop into a game changer" instead of "you are an idiot, you don't understand football, you are biased, and it is the fault of all of the other players around him".

well said.KM has flaws and pointing those out is not being a hater.Some simply refuse to see that KM isn`t the greatest thing since sliced bread or Pizza delivery.

 

[Solar7]

Yep. Posters questioned your freaking football knowledge if you didn't acknowledge the greatness of KM in the offeason. It was freaking nauseating.

Or said you weren't a fan, should go root for someone else, should think about leaving the board, were going to be put on ignore...

It was a wild and wacky offseason, that's for sure.

 

[BW52]

Or said you weren't a fan, should go root for someone else, should think about leaving the board, were going to be put on ignore...

It was a wild and wacky offseason, that's for sure.

It hasn`t changed in some minds.Still have some with KMblinders on and refuse to see mistakes or even admit KM doesn`t walk on water.

 

[BigRedRage]

It hasn`t changed in some minds.Still have some with KMblinders on and refuse to see mistakes or even admit KM doesn`t walk on water.

You're clearly the exact opposite so there is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black.