TaylorSwift
Hall of Famer
Herbert could fall of a Kliff next year, so I dont even know why you would put him on this list.
Better than Lamar?
Ridiculous
I wont dignify the first paragraph though.
Kyler on Pat Mcafee show
- Thread starter BritCard
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Herbert could fall of a Kliff next year, so I dont even know why you would put him on this list.
Better than Lamar?
Ridiculous
I wont dignify the first paragraph though.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Now it does, certainly. I stopped playing in part because I don't have the hand-eye coordination for it, after all. In the old days? No. Not in the least lol
PACardsFan
ASFN Icon
I wanted Lamar too! But we didn't dump Lamar for Murray. We dumped Rosen for Murray. Had we drafted Lamar, I would have been all in on Bosa as our pick. There obviously would have been no need for Murray at that point. But, had we drafted Lamar, I somehow doubt that we would have had the worst record in 2018. All this being said, I prefer K1 to Lamar. But that's me.
Wow - great points and references, Chris!
...dave
PACardsFan
ASFN Icon
The anti-Murray group on this board are still upset because they bought into keeping Rosen & drafting Bosa/Williams. They can't let it go that they were wrong, so they nit pick Murray. The kid is 23 & has all the tools to be great. Is he great RIGHT NOW? No. But, he's pretty damn good. I disagree with you in that his mechanics are poor. He has a short, quick release. And the ball explodes off his hand. You may be referring to the fact that he sometimes throws off his back foot. I don't necessarily see that as poor mechanics. Sometimes it's bad decision making, but not always. I recently listened to Dan Marino talk about how we will see QB's more and more capable of doing that. And that was a positive in his book. Mahomes does it all the time, as does Watson. Super mobile QB's with big arms add that capability to their arsenal. I'm not a huge fan of our horizontal passes, but that's more on KK, our weak interior OL & our weak WR group than it is on Murray. I want to see Murray push the ball more down the field. That's what I'll be looking for more in year 3 & beyond. With better interior protection & more offensive weapons, I have no doubt it'll happen.
PACardsFan
ASFN Icon
Sorry, I disagree wholeheartedly with your premise that YOU want the Cardinals to win more than Murray does. Murray was drafted by the worst Cardinal team in history & has improved the team 2 years in succession. He has all the tools to be great. Is he great today? No. But he's pretty damn good. And I don't recall anyone saying that he was already great or had already arrived. There is only 1 or 2 QB's on that list that I would take over Murray. Of course, I have to factor age into that decision. And Mahomes was blessed to be drafted by a playoff team with tons of offensive weapons & one of the best NFL coaches of all time. And, FYI, every QB on that list would tell you that they had to get better. That's an ongoing process.
Not sure what the difference is between P2 & Larry living on golf course during off-season vs K1 playing games. Plus nobody has any idea what he does with rest of his time & just making a whole bunch of baseless assumptions. Least he ain't out doing dumb stuff & ending up on ESPN front page like a few others have done on team. Heck, Chan got blazed out his mind & ended up half naked on street before getting shipped to Zona for example
Dante
All Star
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
He's playing video games for charity today.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Murray could fall off a cliff next year. THis year, he was a better passer than Kyler, which is why he's on the list.
The bolded statement seem in conflict. He's not great, but the only QB you'd rather have is Patrick Mahomes? C'mon. That's living in a world made entirely of expectations.
When Murray arrived on the team has nothing to do with whether he wants the team to win more than I — a fan of 30+ years — do. I think Murray is happy to work in the gym pumping iron and throwing the ball with his teammates. But there's a limit to how much doing that will help. You have to do the work watching film, studying tendencies, and stuff that you have to learn from an experienced vet or a coach you trust.
When you see Murray making the same mistakes over and over or not improving decision-making and just trying to out-physical opponents, it's an indication to me that the study part isn't there yet.
TaylorSwift
Hall of Famer
No he was not.
People overrate rookies and then see them fall off a cliff the next year and end up in complete denial about the rookie they were fawning over.
Would you say rookie cam newton was a better qb than Kyler this year?
I would think not
GuernseyCard
ASFN Icon
Never played a video game in my life.
Read the Encyclopedia Britannica and will take on anyone in a test that doesn't involve the dexterity of thumbs.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Those seasons were roughly similar.
Rookie Cam had 404 DYAR passing, 188 DYAR rushing, 35 TDs and 22 combined INTs and fumbles (per FootballOutsiders).
Kyler year 2 had 590 DYAR passing, 186 DYAR rushing, 37 TDs and 17 combined INTs and fumbles.
Justin Herbert was OBJECTIVELY a better passer than Kyler was this season: 861 DYAR, 31 passing TDs, 10 INTs (plus 5 rushing TDs and 4 fumbles).
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
The numbers are pretty clear that Herbert was better as a passer than Murray this year. Every stat was better except Cmp% which Murray was .006% better.
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PACardsFan
ASFN Icon
The more you say, the more silly you sound. Last year, the anti-Murrayites complained about how often he ran himself into sacks. Well, contrary to your assumptions that Murray doesn’t watch tape, he somehow reduced his sacks from the 40’s to the 20’s. He’s improved across the board from year 1 to year 2. And there’s no reason to believe that he won’t continue to improve. Absolutely NONE. Congratulations on being a Cardinal fan for 30+ years. That’s worthy of praise. I’ve been a Cardinal fan (57 years) before you were a twinkle in your Dad’s eye
. I’ve seen enough Cardinal football to know that Murray is as exciting a Cardinal player that has existed since 1964.
TaylorSwift
Hall of Famer
Thats how I know ya'll dont watch any football outside of Arizona.
Herbert has a squad around him. He is as a 1, 2 and 3 that are better than anyone in AZ outside of Hop
He also has a great rb rotation.
Watch the games, then you will stop hyping up every tom dick and harry
TaylorSwift
Hall of Famer
GatorAZ
feed hopkins
With no off-season/preseason. It was a bad look for Oregon’s coaches.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
The more you say, the more silly you sound. Last year, the anti-Murrayites complained about how often he ran himself into sacks. Well, contrary to your assumptions that Murray doesn’t watch tape, he somehow reduced his sacks from the 40’s to the 20’s. He’s improved across the board from year 1 to year 2. And there’s no reason to believe that he won’t continue to improve. Absolutely NONE. Congratulations on being a Cardinal fan for 30+ years. That’s worthy of praise. I’ve been a Cardinal fan (57 years) before you were a twinkle in your Dad’s eye
False. Most QBs make their major improvements from year 1 to year 2, and then incrementally improve or level off afterward. That’s why Josh Allen’s third year Leap was so exceptional and unexpected.
As for Kyler’s sack reduction in Year 2, how much of that is attributable to having a better offensive line around him and deciding to rush more (he rushed 40 more times this year than his rookie season)? There’s no reason to attribute that to film study when he was still consistently missing open receivers.
PACardsFan
ASFN Icon
False. See, I can do that too. The interior of our OL was pathetic this year, as was our WR group. I’m not sure what “wide open” receivers you’re referring to, because other than Hop, this group couldn’t separate from me.
SoonerLou
ASFN Addict
Guyton (Kyler's HS teammate) is everything we hope Andy would be. Could make the case he's better than Kirk right now.
To my eye Herbert was a better passer. I do think those under center play action shots deep were the type of play calls we need. However, its his ability to throw on the run that really stood out to me.
Great job by the Chargers coaching him up. Funny enough he's a pretty introverted kid who said he hoped he wouldnt play before the draft.
If you can ball you can ball.
SoonerLou
ASFN Addict
The good thing is he has the arm to do it. He's just gotta really work on throwing while on the move. Ironically against the Rams (week 17) the last two years I thought he showed his best pocket presence when he couldnt move.
I think he's still trying to figure out his stop/go when moving. All his life he could just trust his legs to get out of trouble so he never really had to work the pocket.
Preaching to the choir on video games. Been playing them all my life on home consoles and in arcades (RIP Video Round-Up). Great (in moderation) for thinking, reflexes, imagination, etc.
It's not so much that he's a gamer it's the disinterested vibe he emits that seems like "Aw, shucks. We lost that game. Time for COD. I'll be on Twitch." Maybe he's just a different character than we normally see in driven franchise QB's of the past and he really is able to juggle being a young gamer and a professional football player with playbook and practice responsibilities. As always - time will tell. Just seems he's more comfortable as a mic'd up gamer than he does as a football player in front of a mic.
People bringing up what Pat P. or Fitz do in their off-seasons has nothing to do with what Kyler was doing during the season, IMHO. I've never seen Fitz during the season say "Aw, shucks. We lost the game, but if I hurry I think I can still make my tee time."
As with all distractions - win on the field and no one is saying a thing about any of this.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Russell Wilson. Murray and Wilson are both 5'10.
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TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Worth noting that Wilson has a high release point, which compares to a QB who’s 6’2” Not sure what Kyler’s is, but based on the number of batted balls, it’s likely considerably lower.
Hence, Wilson’s big moon balls
Hence, Wilson’s big moon balls
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