Kyrie

[GatorAZ]

Hey LeBron just lost a pickup game at UCLA to 5 members of UCLA's team, 3 of them freshmen.

bagley and Porter are pretty spectacular, I prefer Bagley but they could both be special but yeah at 19 they're not winning the ECF for Boston.

Hands and Riley OAD confirmed.

 

[Russ Smith]

Hands and Riley OAD confirmed.

Except Olesinski was on the same team so it was almost certainly him that carried that team (-:

 

[Phrazbit]

An absolute heist for Cleveland.

Thomas, last year, was better than Kyrie Irving, and better without having a top 5 all time player around to make his job easier. Thomas carried the Celtics top the best record in the East, when Kyrie was given minutes to carry the Cavs they played like trash.

To also be getting a solid role player and a pick that is a virtual lock for top 3 lotto odds... flat out robbery by the Cavs.

 

[3rdside]

An absolute heist for Cleveland.

Thomas, last year, was better than Kyrie Irving, and better without having a top 5 all time player around to make his job easier. Thomas carried the Celtics top the best record in the East, when Kyrie was given minutes to carry the Cavs they played like trash.

To also be getting a solid role player and a pick that is a virtual lock for top 3 lotto odds... flat out robbery by the Cavs.

I've tried to understand the 'deeper' side to this trade (that's the word used by the those that think Boston have done well) - that means the timing of expiring contracts and expected value of new ones (kyrie vs Thomas), the timing of expiring rookie contracts and expected value of converting these to full paying ones, whether you're comfortable maxxing out IT....and I still don't see it.

Boston is paying a kings ransom for unrealised potential meaning Danny Ainge sees something I just don't (yeah I'm looking at you +/- without Lebron - which, king dad, I posted on here a while back, but who's counting )

 

[devilalum]

That's interesting and there are always exceptions. The one that comes to mind is this past season's Russell Westbrook. So it IS possible. And that was in the West, no less.

That's the thing. There is no exact formula for success. Every championship team had different origins. The Suns need to write their own version of success not try and follow some other teams script.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Finito]

Rubber meets the road as far as getting an answer to the "Is Kyrie a guy you can build around?" question this year. He's going to a team with a decent amount of talent and a great coach. If he can get them to the 2nd or 3rd round, the answer is yes.

But that team shouldn't take a step back next year. If they do, it'all be a legit question to ask.

I hope he's good on Boston. That would make the East Finals really interesting for the first time in a while.

It's a completely different team something 8-9 guys are gone from that Boston roster this year.

 

[Ronin]

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[Mainstreet]

Here is a rumored trade that almost happened that would have brought Kyrie to Phoenix in a three team trade while David Griffin was still the Cavaliers GM.

The Cavs were “close” to sending Irving to Phoenix in a three-team trade that also included the Indiana Pacers, multiple sources with knowledge of the deal told The Athletic. Under the proposed trade, Paul George and Eric Bledsoe would come to Cleveland, Irving and Channing Frye were headed to Phoenix and the Pacers would’ve received the No. 4 pick in the draft along with Iman Shumpert and Jared Dudley.

It would have cost the Suns Bledsoe and the #4 pick. Also Jared Dudley would have been included in the trade.

I wonder if this trade proposal would have changed anyone's mind.

IMO, the Suns would have made this trade.

https://www.fearthesword.com/2017/8/25/16202058/nba-trade-rumor-cavs-kyrie-irving-almost-traded-suns

 

[overseascardfan]

Here is a rumored trade that almost happened that would have brought Kyrie to Phoenix in a three team trade while David Griffin was still the Cavaliers GM.



It would have cost the Suns Bledsoe and the #4 pick. Also Jared Dudley would have been included in the trade.

I wonder if this trade proposal would have changed anyone's mind.

IMO, the Suns would have made this trade.

https://www.fearthesword.com/2017/8/25/16202058/nba-trade-rumor-cavs-kyrie-irving-almost-traded-suns

Prior to the draft maybe, but once Jackson fell to them at #4 that was the end of that.

 

[Mainstreet]

Prior to the draft maybe, but once Jackson fell to them at #4 that was the end of that.

Yup. I'm thinking after the Suns drafted Jackson the chances of making a trade for Kyrie greatly diminished.

Still, trading Bledsoe and Jackson for Kyrie is very tempting. Jackson is still an unproven player.

 

[Errntknght]

Yup. I'm thinking after the Suns drafted Jackson the chances of making a trade for Kyrie greatly diminished.

Still, trading Bledsoe and Jackson for Kyrie is very tempting. Jackson is still an unproven player.

I was never tempted by any of the trades where we wound up with Kyrie. I can't see him helping the young guys become better players and even if, by some miracle he did lift them up into a good team, it'd take another miracle to keep him after two years.

I'm betting Danny Ainge is not planning on Kyrie long term - he sees him providing a better two year window of opportunity than IT did so he went for it. Giving up the Bkn pick so easily means he's thinking short term - and it might pay off. Heck if he can knock Cleveland out, that alone will a feather in his cap

 

[Mainstreet]

I was never tempted by any of the trades where we wound up with Kyrie. I can't see him helping the young guys become better players and even if, by some miracle he did lift them up into a good team, it'd take another miracle to keep him after two years.

I'm betting Danny Ainge is not planning on Kyrie long term - he sees him providing a better two year window of opportunity than IT did so he went for it. Giving up the Bkn pick so easily means he's thinking short term - and it might pay off. Heck if he can knock Cleveland out, that alone will a feather in his cap

I was never high on trading for Kyrie either.

However, breaking down the hypothetical trade of Bledsoe, #4 (or Jackson) and Dudley for Kyrie is an attractive gamble. Bledsoe has two years left on his contract (like Kyrie) so this would have been a wash. Dudley would have been basically filler.

So as I look at it, it would have been the #4 or Jackson for Kyrie. I think most GMs do this trade now and twice on Sunday.

I suspect the Cavaliers wanted even more from the Suns which became a deal breaker.

My guess is Ainge wants the Celtics to be the next mega team.

 

[Finito]

So now talk is this trade might be voided by the Cavs because of IT's hip. I don't think these guys have taken physicals yet.

Make no mistake Ainge ain't stupid. IT is 5'9 with a bad hip yikes...a hip people that's serious. I hope this trade does get voided because as Alfred once said "some men just want to see the world burn"

Oh the chaos this would cause lol

 

[Mainstreet]

So now talk is this trade might be voided by the Cavs because of IT's hip. I don't think these guys have taken physicals yet.

Make no mistake Ainge ain't stupid. IT is 5'9 with a bad hip yikes...a hip people that's serious. I hope this trade does get voided because as Alfred once said "some men just want to see the world burn"

Oh the chaos this would cause lol

The Suns might be back in business.

Below is a link.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...portedly-could-put-kyrie-irving-trade-on-hold

 

[Covert Rain]

That will be interesting if it gets voided. Do the Suns get back in it?

 

[Mainstreet]

That will be interesting if it gets voided. Do the Suns get back in it?

I think the Celtics will ask the Cavaliers to sweeten the deal. If the trade goes south, who knows.

However, I don't think the Suns will include Jackson in any trade. This seems to be where they drew the line.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It's a completely different team something 8-9 guys are gone from that Boston roster this year.

they've got 3 of their top six players in the rotation back with Horford, Smart and Olynyk, an All-Star/the best FA in this year's market and a top 3 pick who's "the most NBA ready scorer in the draft", one of the best coaches in the league... oh and they play in the woeful East. There's no excuse for that team not to be one of the best teams in the East.

 

[Hoop Head]

If the Cavs cancel the trade then the Celtics are in a bad situation because they'll have to replace IT. I can't see him being too happy about being traded and then being brought back like that. Of course his health is an issue but he is only on the books for 1 more year and he's not getting paid too much this year anyways. I guess it all depends on how long they figure he'll miss because of the injury and how serious it is, if he'll have more problems with it later down the road. I feel bad for IT, the Celtics shipping him off like that was bad enough but this could kill any chance at getting a big payday next summer.

Cleveland is also in a bad position. Everything I've read has said the relationship between Kyrie and Lebron & the Cavs is damaged beyond repair. There is no way they'll get another offer close to what the Celtics were willing to pay. I guess they'll need to figure if the Brooklyn pick and Crowder is enough for them to get past however long IT will be out for. I doubt he'll miss that long, all reports on his injury said he may miss the beginning of the season but should be back no later than early December.


http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...ne-isaiah-thomas-mull-next-move?sf109424239=1

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

they've got 3 of their top six players in the rotation back with Horford, Smart and Olynyk, an All-Star/the best FA in this year's market and a top 3 pick who's "the most NBA ready scorer in the draft", one of the best coaches in the league... oh and they play in the woeful East. There's no excuse for that team not to be one of the best teams in the East.

Olynyk went to the Heat. Not that he was particularly important to your point, but just saying...

 

[Carolinacacti]

If the Cavs cancel the trade then the Celtics are in a bad situation because they'll have to replace IT. I can't see him being too happy about being traded and then being brought back like that. Of course his health is an issue but he is only on the books for 1 more year and he's not getting paid too much this year anyways. I guess it all depends on how long they figure he'll miss because of the injury and how serious it is, if he'll have more problems with it later down the road. I feel bad for IT, the Celtics shipping him off like that was bad enough but this could kill any chance at getting a big payday next summer.

Cleveland is also in a bad position. Everything I've read has said the relationship between Kyrie and Lebron & the Cavs is damaged beyond repair. There is no way they'll get another offer close to what the Celtics were willing to pay. I guess they'll need to figure if the Brooklyn pick and Crowder is enough for them to get past however long IT will be out for. I doubt he'll miss that long, all reports on his injury said he may miss the beginning of the season but should be back no later than early December.


http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...ne-isaiah-thomas-mull-next-move?sf109424239=1

Wrong they will both be playing for the finals...

 

[Ronin]

Bobby Marks @BobbyMarks42

The one asset that Boston has of tremendous value is the Memphis pick in 2019. Protected 1-8 in 19, 1-6 in 2020 and unprotected in 21.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bobby Marks @BobbyMarks42

The one asset that Boston has of tremendous value is the Memphis pick in 2019. Protected 1-8 in 19, 1-6 in 2020 and unprotected in 21.

They also have next year's unprotected lakers pick from sixers.

 

[GatorAZ]

They also have next year's unprotected lakers pick from sixers.

Not unprotected. It conveys to Boston if the Lakers' pick lands 2-5. They get Sacramento's unprotected 2019 pick if it doesn't convey.

 

[Hoop Head]

Wrong they will both be playing for the finals...

Ummm... What do you mean? What is that responding to in my post?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Olynyk went to the Heat. Not that he was particularly important to your point, but just saying...

Ah... good point.

They still have too much talent in the East not to be a contender if Kyrie is the real deal outside of LeBron.