Lakers @ Suns 3-18-16- most important game of the season?

[sunsfan88]

If the Lakers end up with Simmons or Ingram while the Suns gets some 2nd tier prospect because of these meaningless and pointless wins the Suns have put together lately, it would just be very telling of the Suns/Lakers rivalry has been. We can't do one thing better than the Lakers, we can't beat them when winning is priority and we can't out tank them when both losing is the priority.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

If the Lakers end up with Simmons or Ingram while the Suns gets some 2nd tier prospect because of these meaningless and pointless wins the Suns have put together lately, it would just be very telling of the Suns/Lakers rivalry has been. We can't do one thing better than the Lakers, we can't beat them when winning is priority and we can't out tank them when both losing is the priority.

Did you know that the last time the team with the outright 2nd worst record in the league got a top 2 pick was in 2006? It has been nearly ten years since a team in that position has drafted better than 3-5.

 

[sunsfan88]

Did you know that the last time the team with the outright 2nd worst record in the league got a top 2 pick was in 2006? It has been nearly ten years since a team in that position has drafted better than 3-5.

What about 3rd worst record? Cause these stupid wins will probably push the Suns out of that into 4th worst record.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

What about 3rd worst record? Cause these stupid wins will probably push the Suns out of that into 4th worst record.

3rd worst has historically won more #1 picks than any other position (since the current system took effect in 1990). 3rd leads the way with 6 #1 picks, 5th with 5, 1st with 4, and both the 4th and 2nd positions have 2 #1 picks. For any further breakdown feel free to scroll through this site below. I currently don't have the time to break it down further at the moment.

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/lottery_results/2015

Just click on the part that says "change year?" to scroll though different years.

 

[Hoop Head]

Here is breakdown of where the 3rd worst and 4th worst teams picked since 1990. No spot has a clear cut advantage except the 3rd overall is guaranteed to pick no later than 6th and the 4th worst at 7th. I know this is viewed as a 2 player draft and the 3rd worst record has picked #1 or #2 7 times while the 4th worst has 5 times. Both have basically fallen the same amount of times while staying and improving the same amount. The 4th has improved more but there is more room to improve from there.

The 3rd spot has fallen 15 times, stayed 4 times, and moved up 7 times over 26 years.
The 4th spot has fallen 14 times, stayed 2 times, and moved up 10 times.

3rd Overall....................................4th Overall
2015 - 3rd Overall (Stayed)......2015 - 2nd Overall (+2)
2014 - 4th Overall (-1).............2014 - 5th Overall (-1)
2013 - 1st Overall (+2)............2013 - 5th Overall (-1)
2012 - 4th Overall (-1).............2012 - 1st Overall (+3)
2011 - 5th Overall (-2).............2011 - 6th Overall (-2)
2010 - 5th Overall (-2).............2010 - 6th Overall (-2)
2009 - 1st Overall (+2)............2009 - 3rd Overall (+1)
2008 - 3rd Overall (Stayed)......2008 - 3rd Overall (+1)
2007 - 6th Overall (-3).............2007 - 3rd Overall (+1)
2006 - 3rd Overall (Stayed)......2006 - 5th Overall (-1)
2005 - 5th Overall (-2).............2005 - 3rd Overall (+1)
2004 - 5th Overall (-2).............2004 - 4th Overall (Stayed)
2003 - 4th Overall (-1).............2003 - 5th Overall (-1)
2002 - 4th Overall (-1).............2002 - 5th Overall (-1)
2001 - 1st Overall (+2)............2001 - 6th Overall (-2)
2000 - 5th Overall (-2).............2000 - 2nd Overall (+2)
1999 - 1st Overall (+2)............1999 - 5th Overall (-1)
1998 - 1st Overall (+2)............1998 - 5th Overall (-1)
1997 - 1st Overall (+2)............1997 - 5th Overall (-1)
1996 - 2nd Overall (+1)...........1996 - 4th Overall (Stayed)
1995 - 5th Overall (-2)............1995 - 3rd Overall (+1)
1994 - 4th Overall (-1)............1994 - 1st Overall (+3)
1993 - 6th Overall (-3)............1993 - 7th Overall (-3)
1992 - 4th Overall (-1)............1992 - 5th Overall (-1)
1991 - 3rd Overall (Stayed).....1991 - 2nd Overall (+2)
1990 - 4th Overall (-1)............1990 - 5th Overall (-1)



*I tried to edit this so the picks would appear next to each other rather than having 2 separate lists and 1 really long post.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Did you guys know that the worst team in the league is 10% more likely to get the 4th pick than the first? Does that seem kind of stupid to some of you? I get that it kind of promotes not actively tanking and all, but sometimes a team just sucks bad enough to finish dead last. Those teams should get rewarded with at least a better chance of landing in the top 3 IMO.

 

[AzStevenCal]

What about 3rd worst record? Cause these stupid wins will probably push the Suns out of that into 4th worst record.

Maybe but there's been an awful lot of hand-wringing here about something that might not happen and if it does happen it still probably won't effect us to any real degree.

We didn't have some special right to that 3rd spot, in fact we were well below it for much of the season. We moved into that spot for awhile and then for a very short while we moved back out of it. Recently I've watched Brooklyn beat the Cavs and the Pacers in successive games and now we are once again in 3rd place. It's a long season and that's what happens even when you're "tanking". No tanking team loses every game.

 

[sunsfan88]

Maybe but there's been an awful lot of hand-wringing here about something that might not happen and if it does happen it still probably won't effect us to any real degree.

We didn't have some special right to that 3rd spot, in fact we were well below it for much of the season. We moved into that spot for awhile and then for a very short while we moved back out of it. Recently I've watched Brooklyn beat the Cavs and the Pacers in successive games and now we are once again in 3rd place. It's a long season and that's what happens even when you're "tanking". No tanking team loses every game.

It's not about losing every game, it's about losing every game in timely fashion. Lakers know how to do that. Like I said in perhaps another thread, that's franchise that knows how to win properly and lose properly. Same with the Spurs & Celtics. No surprise those are 3 of the best franchises in basketball history.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It's not about losing every game, it's about losing every game in timely fashion. Lakers know how to do that. Like I said in perhaps another thread, that's franchise that knows how to win properly and lose properly. Same with the Spurs & Celtics. No surprise those are 3 of the best franchises in basketball history.

In what way? Lakers have not built their tradition on losing, quite the opposite. They got their big named draft picks (Magic and Worthy) as the result of shrewd trading, or horrible trading depending on your perspective. I don't think tanking has ever done the Celtics much good. The Spurs hit it big in part by tanking but keep in mind, the best they could do was to finish with the 3rd worst record that season. They hit the lottery and that isn't skill. And they closed out their "tanking" season going 7 and 16.

 

[Phrazbit]

In what way? Lakers have not built their tradition on losing, quite the opposite. They got their big named draft picks (Magic and Worthy) as the result of shrewd trading, or horrible trading depending on your perspective. I don't think tanking has ever done the Celtics much good. The Spurs hit it big in part by tanking but keep in mind, the best they could do was to finish with the 3rd worst record that season. They hit the lottery and that isn't skill. And they closed out their "tanking" season going 7 and 16.

Curse you and your facts! Don't you realize that if we'd lost to the Lakers we'd have a mere 19 wins and be 3rd in the lotto seeding? Instead we idiotically won, and now we're stuck with 20 wins and 3rd in the lotto seeding. Fools, fools, I tell you. Tanking you're way to dead last is the way true winners go about winning. Just look at the good its done for the Sixers, or the massive teams the T'Wolves built, or the mighty Pelicans.

 

[sunsfan88]

In what way? Lakers have not built their tradition on losing, quite the opposite. They got their big named draft picks (Magic and Worthy) as the result of shrewd trading, or horrible trading depending on your perspective. I don't think tanking has ever done the Celtics much good. The Spurs hit it big in part by tanking but keep in mind, the best they could do was to finish with the 3rd worst record that season. They hit the lottery and that isn't skill. And they closed out their "tanking" season going 7 and 16.

I'm talking about what the Lakers (Russel & Randle plus this year's) are doing now and Celtics have done lately (Smart).

And I don't want to get into the argument because it's been done at least a million times but the fact is that most of the top players in the league were selected at the very top of the draft.

I would be content with finishing with the 3rd worst record like the Spurs did. I just don't want to end up losing the 3rd worst spot due to pointless wins we had against the Lakers and other teams lately.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'm talking about what the Lakers and Celtics are doing now.

And I don't want to get into the argument because it's been done at least a million times but the fact is that most of the top players in the league were selected at the very top of the draft.

I would be content with finishing with the 3rd worst record like the Spurs did. I just don't want to end up losing the 3rd worst spot due to pointless wins we had against the Lakers and other teams lately.

The Celtics are tanking? Amazing!