LB and TPE for Turk and Childress

[Chaplin]

When your two other starting perimeter players are 40% 3 point shooting guys, you don't really need your two to spread the floor. The offense should work with Turk and Nash taking turns driving and handling the ball, while one is creating and facilitating the offense, the other will be in a position to shoot and spread the floor. Run the PnR with Lopzes or AK, and have the other guy clean up, while Hill or Childress is available for the mid-range game. Seems well balanced.

On the other hand, if we keep J-Rich, we have to rely too much on outside shooting. We don't have any garbage players that are going to get our hustle points (with the possible exception of Lopez).

You do know who our best low-post player is, right? And if we get Kirilenko, who will be our best low-post player? If we get AK, we won't have a low-post player!

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Which guy in that lineup would you call a reliable scorer other than Nash? I rather have a dangerous player like J-Rich in the starting lineup than have Hill as the starting SG just to accomodate AK. People are worried about defense at the 4. We didn't have any D at the 4 before, so what are we worrying about? Turk at the 4 gives us a plus plus passing forward and on a team that loves 3 point shooting. Having a PF who can pass will surely help and J-Rich needs to become more of our primary option.

Depends on your definition of reliable. I consider Nash, Hill, and Turk to all be reliable scorers. AK would average at least 12 points a game, probably more, in this system. Scoring really isn't our problem. Remember '06? I have faith in this team to manufacture offense, it's never really been a problem.

Plus, what we really need is interior scoring (which, admittedly, AK does not fully address). We've got a great perimeter team, even without J-Rich. That's where the redundancy comes in.

 

[Chaplin]

Depends on your definition of reliable. I consider Nash, Hill, and Turk to all be reliable scorers. AK would average at least 12 points a game, probably more, in this system. Scoring really isn't our problem. Remember '06? I have faith in this team to manufacture offense, it's never really been a problem.

Plus, what we really need is interior scoring (which, admittedly, AK does not fully address). We've got a great perimeter team, even without J-Rich. That's where the redundancy comes in.

I love Grant Hill, but to rely on him for scoring is a huge mistake, IMO.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

You do know who our best low-post player is, right? And if we get Kirilenko, who will be our best low-post player? If we get AK, we won't have a low-post player!

J-Rich has a good post up game for a guard, but he's not a low post player, nor should he be. Team's don't succeed with a guard as a low post guy, especially when they have traditional centers like we do. And a running team doesn't need a low post player. That's the point of the system. We sacrifice low-post for PnR and spacing.

 

[Chaplin]

J-Rich has a good post up game for a guard, but he's not a low post player, nor should he be. Team's don't succeed with a guard as a low post guy, especially when they have traditional centers like we do. And a running team doesn't need a low post player. That's the point of the system. We sacrifice low-post for PnR and spacing.

DOESN'T MATTER. You want to have some weapons in your arsenal. JRich down low is a weapon that you lose if you trade him away.

And like I said before, a lot of you are discounting the chemistry thing--but it's VERY important for this team. Think we would have gotten to the WCF this past year without it? Yes, we've got some new major players, which is all the more reason to keep JRich as one of the team leaders--which he is.

Kirilenko would be a massive mistake.

 

[taz02]

The only way it makes sense to offload J-Rich is if it brings us a really good big man. I'm not familiar enough with Turks game, but I know one thing. We need someone other than Nash that can create their own shot and score consistently in multiple ways. J-Rich is that guy and he was huge in the playoffs. In fact he was our best player in the playoffs. If you send him off you better get something good in return

Lopez/Frye
Turk/Warrick
Hill/Dudley
J-Rich/Childress
Nash/Dragic

If Turk can pull down six boards a game and play better defense than Amare we will be a better team than last season. Replacing Amare's ppg is not going to be a problem. J-Rich will have more post up opportunities without Amare and hopefully will make up for some of the ft shooting that will be sorely missed.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If Turk can pull down six boards a game and play better defense than Amare we will be a better team than last season. Replacing Amare's ppg is not going to be a problem. J-Rich will have more post up opportunities without Amare and hopefully will make up for some of the ft shooting that will be sorely missed.

i love the way you guys think. pull down six boards a game???

he's never done that in his career! his high season was 5.7 and that's THREE YEARS AGO. his 10 AVERAGE is 4.3/game. he's only had two years where he's even averaged more than 4.6/game. and now we're depending on him averaging nearly 2 rebounds per game MORE than his career average . . . at the tail end of his career? sorry, but we're not getting that. i'll be shocked if we get 5/game. thinking his career average of 4.3 is more likely. that's a swing (from amare) of roughly 4.6 rebs/game. thats gonna hurt.

 

[devilalum]

If Lopez doesn't show up big like he did for a while last year and stay healthy the Suns are in trouble.

 

[Vellasco]

I thought the Suns needed to get more beef at PF/ FC and Kirilenko was too similar in stature to Warrick and Turoglu. IMO, the Suns need a quality player that can play FC. However, I don't think Richardson is a redundant piece. The Suns have lots SFs but I do not see a SG on your roster that can consistently hit the 3 point shot. Hill and Childress are not dependable to spread the court and I don't think the Suns want Turkoglu playing away from the basket. The Suns offense will suffer. Now if the Suns could have gotten Jefferson for Richardson, then the risk would have been worth it because Jefferson can play FC and pull in opposing defenses.

The logic behind 4out1in offense is to give your dominant center more space as much as you can to take opponent center/PF on 1on1. Lopez is (or going to be) a Dominant Center? dun know yet. If this chance will be given to him then injecting conventional PF (Harrington, Varejao, Scola, Harword, Josh Smith.. etc) into line up is going to be crucial mistake. Another player near to rim will tighten up the defense around perimeter.
So, if the target is going to play 4out1 offense, Jrich should be kept or if you gonna dumb him for a cheaper contract (for SG or PF) we should find another player who can score consistently behind the line for SG position. Childress? No way. Hill? May be. I saw Hedo-Hill playing together at Orlando. They were compatible with eachothers. For PF position i think AK47 is a good option (both defensively and offensively but not salarywise). He has less court vision than Hedo but he can hit 3's consistently and his help defense is great. Steve/Hill/Turk/AK47/Lopez seems deadly combination and creates huge match-up for almost entire league. Or, we can shift Hedo to 3 and let Fyre and Jrich start till next AllStar deadline..

 

[AzStevenCal]

If Lopez doesn't show up big like he did for a while last year and stay healthy the Suns are in trouble.

The health and development of Lopez will go a long way in determining the success of this team not just next year but well into the future. If his back effectively ends his career or even just his growth our roster loses a lot of it's potential luster.

Right now, we can still dream that we have our PG and center of the future and that's really the only positive when you look 3 or 4 years out. It's a lot easier to find wing players and even a serviceable power forward if you've got the center spot solved.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

The logic behind 4out1in offense is to give your dominant center more space as much as you can to take opponent center/PF on 1on1. Lopez is (or going to be) a Dominant Center? dun know yet. If this chance will be given to him then injecting conventional PF (Harrington, Varejao, Scola, Harword, Josh Smith.. etc) into line up is going to be crucial mistake. Another player near to rim will tighten up the defense around perimeter.
So, if the target is going to play 4out1 offense, Jrich should be kept or if you gonna dumb him for a cheaper contract (for SG or PF) we should find another player who can score consistently behind the line for SG position. Childress? No way. Hill? May be. I saw Hedo-Hill playing together at Orlando. They were compatible with eachothers. For PF position i think AK47 is a good option (both defensively and offensively but not salarywise). He has less court vision than Hedo but he can hit 3's consistently and his help defense is great. Steve/Hill/Turk/AK47/Lopez seems deadly combination and creates huge match-up for almost entire league. Or, we can shift Hedo to 3 and let Fyre and Jrich start till next AllStar deadline..

I don't think Lopez will ever be a dominant center in that regard. He anchors a defense well and his presence improves overall team rebounding but I don't think any of us expect him to be a force on offense. Pair him with a real offensive threat at PF and he'll have the occasional big game but I think his ceiling is around 12 to 14 points per game.

Steve

 

[Vellasco]

i love the way you guys think. pull down six boards a game???

he's never done that in his career! his high season was 5.7 and that's THREE YEARS AGO. his 10 AVERAGE is 4.3/game. he's only had two years where he's even averaged more than 4.6/game. and now we're depending on him averaging nearly 2 rebounds per game MORE than his career average . . . at the tail end of his career? sorry, but we're not getting that. i'll be shocked if we get 5/game. thinking his career average of 4.3 is more likely. that's a swing (from amare) of roughly 4.6 rebs/game. thats gonna hurt.

Taking more boards is directly proportional with how far you away from the rim. Comparing two different position (SF/PF)'s rebounds on stat-wise seems a bit forcing the stretch to me.

 

[SunsTzu]

i love the way you guys think. pull down six boards a game???

he's never done that in his career! his high season was 5.7 and that's THREE YEARS AGO. his 10 AVERAGE is 4.3/game. he's only had two years where he's even averaged more than 4.6/game. and now we're depending on him averaging nearly 2 rebounds per game MORE than his career average . . . at the tail end of his career? sorry, but we're not getting that. i'll be shocked if we get 5/game. thinking his career average of 4.3 is more likely. that's a swing (from amare) of roughly 4.6 rebs/game. thats gonna hurt.

I also like the assumption he can defend the 4 better than Amare. He has never shown the ability to defend PF any better than Amare his entire career(actually he is statistically worse than Amare at that position). Just because he is 6'10" and defends his natural position well doesn't mean that defense will translate when playing out of position.

If Suns don't add a legit PF they will be playing more zone than any NBA team ever has, which will make it even more difficult for Hedo to improve his rebounding numbers.

 

[SunsTzu]

Taking more boards is directly proportional with how far you away from the rim. Comparing two different position (SF/PF)'s rebounds on stat-wise seems a bit forcing the stretch to me.

The problem is Hedo is going to be playing PF unless something changes. I don't expect the position change to have a dramatic effect on his numbers.

 

[Vellasco]

I don't think Lopez will ever be a dominant center in that regard. He anchors a defense well and his presence improves overall team rebounding but I don't think any of us expect him to be a force on offense. Pair him with a real offensive threat at PF and he'll have the occasional big game but I think his ceiling is around 12 to 14 points per game.

Steve

We saw this scenario on TOR, Steve. Bosh and JO'neal sucked terribly. They've killed their match ups and closed their lines. Its easier to defend those duo's.

 

[Vellasco]

The problem is Hedo is going to be playing PF unless something changes. I don't expect the position change to have a dramatic effect on his numbers.

I agree. But we should keep on our minds: Defense depends heavily on team effort and demand high experience. I dont care how much rebound he will take, instead the crucial Q, are they gonna be compatible with eachothers or not?

 

[AzStevenCal]

We saw this scenario on TOR, Steve. Bosh and JO'neal sucked terribly. They've killed their match ups and closed their lines. Its easier to defend those duo's.

That's more the result of the type of bigs they are. Duncan and Robinson had no problem co-existing. Lopez really doesn't have a post up game but if you put him next to a player such as Amare, they'll complement each other well. I don't know where we're going to find an Amare though because they don't grow on trees. I actually think that the Hedo and Lopez combination can work if Turkoglu is in shape. He has a mid-range game and he can make the interior pass also.

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

That's more the result of the type of bigs they are. Duncan and Robinson had no problem co-existing. Lopez really doesn't have a post up game but if you put him next to a player such as Amare, they'll complement each other well.

Which was one of the more disappointing aspects of Amare leaving. The Suns FINALLY pair him with the perfect big man foil, a guy who doesn't care about shots and does the dirty work, and then he leaves.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Which was one of the more disappointing aspects of Amare leaving. The Suns FINALLY pair him with the perfect big man foil, a guy who doesn't care about shots and does the dirty work, and then he leaves.

I know. I've been a depressed Suns fan ever since I came to the realization that we were probably going to have to lose Amare. I thought Sarver went further than he should have in his effort to retain the guy but that was based solely on injury risks. I would have loved to see him and Robin develop together over the next few years.

Steve

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Taking more boards is directly proportional with how far you away from the rim. Comparing two different position (SF/PF)'s rebounds on stat-wise seems a bit forcing the stretch to me.

so you think hedo is going to average 6+ boards/game this year? i'll bet you $100 on that over/under.

wait, i just saw where you're from. i get it. enjoy your hedo. looks like we have the new "andrew."

 

[Vellasco]

so you think hedo is going to average 6+ boards/game this year? i'll bet you $100 on that over/under.

wait, i just saw where you're from. i get it. enjoy your hedo. looks like we have the new "andrew."

Where did i tell you hedo would be rebound monster? I just opposed to the way you putt your argument. Accept or not , It was poor argument.

We will never know how many rebound he will get next year. There are too many variables and unknowns. Its hard to predict from now on. And look at my below post, it might give you an idea how i'm looking to the subject.

I agree. But we should keep on our minds: Defense depends heavily on team effort and demand high experience. I dont care how much rebound he will take, instead the crucial Q, are they gonna be compatible with eachothers or not?

And thanks for bias. If my flag gives you whole story about me, you may look my hand-horoscope and tell my future, huh.

Believe me my friend, i'm not here to defend Hedo. whatever, Thanks for your warm welcome. Cheers andrew, btw.

 

[Vellasco]

That's more the result of the type of bigs they are. Duncan and Robinson had no problem co-existing. Lopez really doesn't have a post up game but if you put him next to a player such as Amare, they'll complement each other well. I don't know where we're going to find an Amare though because they don't grow on trees. I actually think that the Hedo and Lopez combination can work if Turkoglu is in shape. He has a mid-range game and he can make the interior pass also.

Steve

Yes he will really need it He just weights 215 lbs. Look at opp PFs:

Dallas ------ Dirk (245 lbs., 7-0)
Houston---- J.Hill (235 lbs), Scola (230 lbs)
Memphis--- Randhoph (270lbs)
NO----------- West (240 lbs.)
SA-------- Duncan (260 lbs.)
Denver-----Nene (268 lbs.)
Minesota---Beasley (235 lbs.)
Portland----Aldridge (237 lbs)
OKC--------Collison (255 lbs.)
Utah-------Jefferson (265 lbs)
LAC--------Griffin (251 lbs.)
LA---------Gasol (250 lbs.)
SAC-------Landry (248 lbs.)

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Where did i tell you hedo would be rebound monster? I just opposed to the way you putt your argument. Accept or not , It was poor argument.

We will never know how many rebound he will get next year. There are too many variables and unknowns. Its hard to predict from now on. And look at my below post, it might give you an idea how i'm looking to the subject.




And thanks for bias. If my flag gives you whole story about me, you may look my hand-horoscope and tell my future, huh.

Believe me my friend, i'm not here to defend Hedo. whatever, Thanks for your warm welcome. Cheers andrew, btw.

first, i never said you argued he would be a "monster." do not put words into my mouth. THAT is a poor way to argue. second, my argument is factually based. third, i just find it curious that we've never seen you, hedo is coming, and voila, here you are. you're not here to defend him? i see the contrary. i suppose we'll see how it plays out. mind you, i'm not attacking hedo. i like him, just not as a pf. finally, there IS a way we'll know how many rebounds he gets . . . at the end of the year. i'm arguing that he won't pull in 6+ boards/game based on historical data, you're seemingly arguing the opposite. what the hell does palm-reading have to do with anything? we're both engaging in conjecture. i'm just using facts to support mine whereas you seem to be guessing/hoping.

 

[slinslin]

Yes he will really need it He just weights 215 lbs. Look at opp PFs:

Dallas ------ Dirk (245 lbs., 7-0)
Houston---- J.Hill (235 lbs), Scola (230 lbs)
Memphis--- Randhoph (270lbs)
NO----------- West (240 lbs.)
SA-------- Duncan (260 lbs.)
Denver-----Nene (268 lbs.)
Minesota---Beasley (235 lbs.)
Portland----Aldridge (237 lbs)
OKC--------Collison (255 lbs.)
Utah-------Jefferson (265 lbs)
LAC--------Griffin (251 lbs.)
LA---------Gasol (250 lbs.)
SAC-------Landry (248 lbs.)

Duncan is a Center. Nene is a center. Beasley is more of a SF. Collison isn't a starting PF. Landry is no way 248lbs.

 

[S_Nash]

Beasley is more of a SF.

Yet you have him starting PF for your 2010/11 Suns team?