Leinart getting a screwed in Arizona?

[THESMEL]

well Matty has performed like an elite top 10 QB as I projected 19-23 for 110+ QB rating. a little help from his freinds and a non blitzing everydown defense and who knows he could have 20 for 30 and a little less antichrist on ESPN.

What NFL qb on any team out performed Matt this preseason? with 2 rookie WR one of them a UFA that looks10 times better than our 3rd round Wr pick. Our oline and RB sucked Matt out performed any player on this team, even Dwill or Dwash. DRC has been plenty good too!

Whiz needs to get with the program.

 

[Pariah]

Actually its just as speculative as anything in this thread at this point.

Advising people not to speculate is speculative? I didn't predict a thing, I'm just saying IF Leinart is the starter week 1, we're going to look back and say, "really, we were trying to read non-verbal cues in press conferences to come up with a theory about Whiz's hard-on for DA? Man, we really needed the season to start."

Until something definitive happens with the QB spot, ya'll are trying to read the coaches mind. That's usually not all that successful.

 

[THESMEL]

well

Whiz: pause - far away eyes- blink - calculate response

well it is not all on the QB, we have to be carefull about that, the Rb didn't play well with negative yards- the oline didn't protect well- I didn't have them ready for the Defense to blitz every down- and Our young WR's didn't run good routes.

Matt must be the antichrist cause ESPN said so. I'm starting DA.

I know the fans are discomfortable but I have a feel for this team and a good idea what will work.

a 5 year top coach contract has made me alot less discomfortable, but it must suck being you if your drafted Cardinal player not named Fitz or AW.

the feeling of moving Matt Leinart from point A to point B against his will is discomfortable for most but I get off on it!

Advising people not to speculate is speculative? I didn't predict a thing, I'm just saying IF Leinart is the starter week 1, we're going to look back and say, "really, we were trying to read non-verbal cues in press conferences to come up with a theory about Whiz's hard-on for DA? Man, we really needed the season to start."

Until something definitive happens with the QB spot, ya'll are trying to read the coaches mind. That's usually not all that successful.

 

[Bobcat]

Sando's hack job today quotes Whiz as saying it is about chemistry with the team and that it's about how you handle everything that's thrown at you. DA has been on the team 5 months. Matt's been on the team 4 years, and has just about everything thrown at him. I'm old school, Matt has earned, and deserves, his shot. If we don't win because of his play bring in DA after 4-6 games. The alternative is to replace DA after 4-6 games with a pissed off ML near the end of his contract.

I wonder if this QB controversy is manufactured to generate publicity. Almost all of the media coverage on the Cards this year involves the QB situation.

Whiz did mention what Sando's stated about CHEMISTRY. But really is it with the TEAM or is it with WHIZ...??? I really get the feeling that Whiz has never liked either Matt or Big Ben. It is really a shame that we have a "CHILD" as a head coach...!!!! Matt is really getting screwed...!!!!!!!!

BOBCAT

 

[82CardsGrad]

this is my question too. I think the answer lies within the top of the organization but who knows.

We simply don't and never will know what takes place between Whiz, Graves and Mike B. Who knows - maybe Whiz was lobbying to be more aggressive in going after a QB. Maybe not. But part of me believes that Whiz was giving Matty a chance to man-up and take control of this situation. Instead (and yes, I'm just speculating...), it seems to me that all Matt did when coming into camp is simply solidify all of the concerns Whiz has of him.

 

[CardinalChris]

What really bugs me about everyone saying this is Warner was the checkdown king!

Checkdowns are good when nothing is open down the field. Do you believe defenders thought the same for Warner? That he was going to definately take the 3 yard pass? Warner took his shots, and defenses knew it, making it a threat. Even in the titans game last year I never felt Matty pushed the ball down the field, and when a defense can basically discount the back half of the field it will kill an offense.

Warner looked deep, settled short. I feel like Matty has forgotten that first step. If he took some effective shots down the field this wouldn't matter to me.

 

[CardinalChris]

Whiz did mention what Sando's stated about CHEMISTRY. But really is it with the TEAM or is it with WHIZ...??? I really get the feeling that Whiz has never liked either Matt or Big Ben. It is really a shame that we have a "CHILD" as a head coach...!!!! Matt is really getting screwed...!!!!!!!!

BOBCAT

This I don't get. How is he getting screwed?

 

[THESMEL]

how

Matts being put in the worse possible positions to succeed.

remember Tim played for this coach after Matt got his collarbone broken for our entertainment. KEPT 2 QB's on the roster as a rookie HC!

Matt has a 110 + QB rating and is the best QB this preseason in the NFL. His team mates and 2 rookie WR's didn't get first downs after Matty hit 19-23 under intense pressure with no running game!

Mike Miller, RussGrimm, Chris Chandler and Whiz need to
CARDINAL UP AND TAKE IT LIKE A FAN!

This I don't get. How is he getting screwed?

 

[Bobcat]

This I don't get. How is he getting screwed?

Really. Well last night up until the second quarter DA was playing poorly, just like Matt played in the previous two games. didn't move the ball at all. Evan less completions than when Matt started. But did Whiz pull him like he did Matt. NOOOOOOOOOOO...!!! He kept DA in. Whiz never gave Matt that chance
during the first two games. Fair is Fair.

Matt has had a 83% completion average during preseason and NOOOOO INTERCEPTIONS, and one TD Pass. You can not say that for AD, no you cannot.

BOBCAT but not at you just WHIZ...!!!

 

[nashman]

I will add to that Bobcat as the O was not doing well he stuck Beanie in to at least help DA which was not done for Matt in the first 2 games!

 

[conraddobler]

We simply don't and never will know what takes place between Whiz, Graves and Mike B. Who knows - maybe Whiz was lobbying to be more aggressive in going after a QB. Maybe not. But part of me believes that Whiz was giving Matty a chance to man-up and take control of this situation. Instead (and yes, I'm just speculating...), it seems to me that all Matt did when coming into camp is simply solidify all of the concerns Whiz has of him.

You're right we don't KNOW what went on but we can get a hint by what they have said.

Look if anyone has ever worked for a boss that just for whatever reason does not like you, all they do is magnify your faults and completely diss anything positive about you.

I'm a pretty knowledgeable fan in terms of how much attention I pay towards this team, and I've seen tons of HC's make decisions about players.

Whiz is near the far edge of the spectrum on this one, almost ANY HC I know of would of let Matt rise or fall as the starter rather than do it this way, after all we'd of known the answer in 4 to 6 games tops.

That's a really not big price to pay to figure it out, that is if you really want an answer or if you haven't already decided the matter yourself.

If you have decided it then you're a fool for taking him along this far, or you were forced to.

Trying to rewrite history and blame Matt for this, as if he could of done something about it to me is childish and I'll go on record calling it that, man up goes both ways.

Have the guts to say the truth and don't play mind games.

 

[PJ1]

I will add to that Bobcat as the O was not doing well he stuck Beanie in to at least help DA which was not done for Matt in the first 2 games!

Well considering the way THT played when Matt was in( huge part of the TD drive) Whiz did Matt a favor. All Beanie did was cost Matt points with a fumble.

 

[Bobcat]

I will add to that Bobcat as the O was not doing well he stuck Beanie in to at least help DA which was not done for Matt in the first 2 games!

Thank you...!!! Now you can see why Whiz didn't get the Steeler's Head Coaching Job. He really hated Big Ben and the Rooney Family would not stand for that.

BOBCAT

 

[nashman]

PJ! I was commenting on Matts first 2 games where Whiz did him NO FAVORS of trying to help the O be successfull! Matt was given a little to work with last night and look damn near perfect it should show people all they need to see who should be the starter!

 

[Dayman]

We all get screwed if Anderson starts for a couple of reasons.

First, Anderson will have way too much job security. There's no way Whis can bench Anderson for Leinart in the middle of the year based on performance. Right or wrong, this is a far more controversial decision than starting Warner over Leinart. Making a mid-season switch would be admitting a pretty large mistake. Unless Whis feels like Hall or Skelton are ready, Anderson will likely keep his job no matter how he plays.

Which leads to the second problem. Our second string QB position would be weakened with this move. Leinart obviously isn't going to be happy if he loses his starting job again, meaning his relationship with Whis will be even worse. If Anderson got hurt, do you really want a jaded Leinart starting in his place?

And that doesn't even take into consideration that DA just isn't a very good QB. Naming him the starter would be a risky, risky move.

 

[Cardiac]

You're right we don't KNOW what went on but we can get a hint by what they have said.

Look if anyone has ever worked for a boss that just for whatever reason does not like you, all they do is magnify your faults and completely diss anything positive about you.

I'm a pretty knowledgeable fan in terms of how much attention I pay towards this team, and I've seen tons of HC's make decisions about players.

Whiz is near the far edge of the spectrum on this one, almost ANY HC I know of would of let Matt rise or fall as the starter rather than do it this way, after all we'd of known the answer in 4 to 6 games tops.

That's a really not big price to pay to figure it out, that is if you really want an answer or if you haven't already decided the matter yourself.

If you have decided it then you're a fool for taking him along this far, or you were forced to.

Trying to rewrite history and blame Matt for this, as if he could of done something about it to me is childish and I'll go on record calling it that, man up goes both ways.

Have the guts to say the truth and don't play mind games.

I'm on board with a lot of your opinions but I don't agree with the thought that CKW has zero faith in ML. Maybe it is politics or FO issues that have tied his hands.

As far as the mind games, every HC has their version of mind games. Parcells was notorious for taking shots at some of his players.

4 to 6 games could be the difference between making the playoffs or not. I'm thrilled CKW doesn't want to throw away the season. This is of course assuming ML can not win game for us, which might be CKW's opinion.

I truly appreciate how often you state that it's not personal and that it something about ML's play and skill set that CKW doesn't seem to be happy with,

 

[Arizona's Finest]

We all get screwed if Anderson starts for a couple of reasons.

First, Anderson will have way too much job security. There's no way Whis can bench Anderson for Leinart in the middle of the year based on performance. Right or wrong, this is a far more controversial decision than starting Warner over Leinart. Making a mid-season switch would be admitting a pretty large mistake. Unless Whis feels like Hall or Skelton are ready, Anderson will likely keep his job no matter how he plays.

Which leads to the second problem. Our second string QB position would be weakened with this move. Leinart obviously isn't going to be happy if he loses his starting job again, meaning his relationship with Whis will be even worse. If Anderson got hurt, do you really want a jaded Leinart starting in his place?

And that doesn't even take into consideration that DA just isn't a very good QB. Naming him the starter would be a risky, risky move.

Agreed.

Except if DA is named starter and ineffective after 6 games, I bet you Hall is coming in, not Leinart.

 

[conraddobler]

I agree it's almost insanely risky but Whiz is pretty calculating and he's a gambler too when he thinks he should, he's shown that more than once with some very gutsy trick plays.

I think he watched camp to see how DA did with an idea that if he saw enough he'd go that route and while he was doing that he basically gave us the Matt company line, then somewhere in camp he decided to roll the dice and here we go.

I think it's crazy for a lot of reasons you mentioned, we really don't have a good plan B we can get to but I think it's a done deal now.

 

[conraddobler]

Agreed.

Except if DA is named starter and ineffective after 6 games, I bet you Hall is coming in, not Leinart.

That's a good bet I think.

 

[conraddobler]

I'm on board with a lot of your opinions but I don't agree with the thought that CKW has zero faith in ML. Maybe it is politics or FO issues that have tied his hands.

As far as the mind games, every HC has their version of mind games. Parcells was notorious for taking shots at some of his players.

4 to 6 games could be the difference between making the playoffs or not. I'm thrilled CKW doesn't want to throw away the season. This is of course assuming ML can not win game for us, which might be CKW's opinion.

I truly appreciate how often you state that it's not personal and that it something about ML's play and skill set that CKW doesn't seem to be happy with,

I wouldn't be so sure of myself except given this is the last year of Matt's contract.

This is Whiz's one and only opportunity to get rid of Matt without risking him actually playing ok enough to make it nearly impossible to do so.

If you didn't buy into a players play, the worst thing you could imagine would be being wrong enough to get stuck with him without being able to win in the playoffs with him.

Say we do squeak out a division win but then lose in the playoffs, we'll the FO is going to sign the guy and that's that, you're stuck.

 

[PJ1]

PJ! I was commenting on Matts first 2 games where Whiz did him NO FAVORS of trying to help the O be successfull! Matt was given a little to work with last night and look damn near perfect it should show people all they need to see who should be the starter!

No you weren't. Read your post. You indicate Whiz gave Anderson help LAST NIGHT by letting Beanie play with him. Since THT had a far better game it really did nothing for Anderson nor do I believe it meant anything. By the way I believe Matt should start without question. I just don't agree with you accusing Whiz of scheming to make Matt look bad. It is ridiculous.

 

[CardinalChris]

Really. Well last night up until the second quarter DA was playing poorly, just like Matt played in the previous two games. didn't move the ball at all. Evan less completions than when Matt started. But did Whiz pull him like he did Matt. NOOOOOOOOOOO...!!! He kept DA in. Whiz never gave Matt that chance
during the first two games. Fair is Fair.

Matt has had a 83% completion average during preseason and NOOOOO INTERCEPTIONS, and one TD Pass. You can not say that for AD, no you cannot.

BOBCAT but not at you just WHIZ...!!!

Strange, I heard Whiz say pregame Matty would hopefully get the 2 min drill to close the half and into the 3rd. Exactly what he said would happen, happened. Matt's numbers are great, but he couldn't move the ball or get the offense going. Feel free to name your reason. So you give the other guy a shot because although he can be a turnover machine and about as accurate as that dude from Major League.

You don't perform, you at least have to entertain the idea of another option. The truth is Matt was accurate, but tentative and held the ball too long IMO. Anderson has a little of that big-bodied stand in there QB mentality Whiz likes. So he got his shot. If you don't perform, and for a QB it is to move the ball and score points, regardless of WHY, you explore your options. And he responded. I think he put the pressure right back on Whiz with his performance last night. Isn't that the end result? Best performing player starts? I don't even know if the coaches are ready to pick that person.

 

[seesred]

I can't believe that I read every post! Wow! Going into game 4 without a starting QB. What are the players thinking. Heck what is Whiz thinking and why. Contract appears in play. Big payday for Matt if he starts and does well.Trade him now get something for him? Play Anderson and watch this 6 or 7 win team finish the year without a starting QB. I'm anxious to find out soon. There are just to many of us wasting up our day wondering is he in or out?

GBR
40

 

[nashman]

agree to disagree

 

[CardinalChris]

About which part? I see logic in this line of thinking and would be held accountable at my job in much the same way. I don't know Whiz personally, but I can't believe this is some sort of grudge match or witch hunt. The guy seems like a person who would sell his Grandmother to make the playoffs. So like it or not, he is doing what is best for the team. Matt's job is to prove him wrong, and I hope he does. But the high level view is that your starting QB, who is not proven had trouble moving the ball.

It is emotional, but Matt's 4 years don't mean he gets a free pass. We all knew he had to perform or feel pressure.