Leinart versus Manning or Brady

RonF

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As I watched Peyton Manning and Tom Brady play over the past two days, I thought about how Leinart could match up with any one of the two. I know Leinart is injured right now and has just played a few games each of the past two years. IMO, looking at his potential for growth and how he looked in the best games he played so far, I don't think he is the one to lead us to the promised land. I'm just saying.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Why would you even try to compare ANY quarterback in the league to these two? I don't think that Leinart can ever be on their level.
 

Pariah

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Lots of QBs that can't hold a candle to Manning or Brady have won the superbowl. In fact, most of the SB winning QBs can't come close to those guys.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Lots of QBs that can't hold a candle to Manning or Brady have won the superbowl. In fact, most of the SB winning QBs can't come close to those guys.

Very true. When the Trent Dilfer's of the world can win superbowls, that proves the point.

That's not what the OP was asking though.
 
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RonF

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That's my point, if he can't play at their level and perhaps at the level of some other QBs who are currently playing, then he isn't the QBOF for us. I'm not trying to compare Leinart's ability today against other QBs as they play today, but at a similar time in their career. I just don't see the leadership or the accuracy of his arm down field.
 

AZCB34

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That's my point, if he can't play at their level and perhaps at the level of some other QBs who are currently playing, then he isn't the QBOF for us. I'm not trying to compare Leinart's ability today against other QBs as they play today, but at a similar time in their career. I just don't see the leadership or the accuracy of his arm down field.

I have my doubts (and they continue to grow) about Leinart, but this is just silly. You cannot try and compare him to them and then, when he fails to even come close let alone be near their level, tell everyone Leinart is not the QoF for the Cards.

The first thing you need to do is define what QoF really means to you...so maybe in your mind, Leinart must be Peyton or Tom in order to be considered the QoF. To me, a QoF is a guy who brings stability to the position for a long period, improves his play and hopefully leads the team to the playoffs and beyond (dare anyone dream Super Bowl?). As of this moment, Leinart is the QoF in my mind but I will again stress the idea that my doubts about that are slowly growing/
 

RugbyMuffin

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As I watched Peyton Manning and Tom Brady play over the past two days, I thought about how Leinart could match up with any one of the two. I know Leinart is injured right now and has just played a few games each of the past two years. IMO, looking at his potential for growth and how he looked in the best games he played so far, I don't think he is the one to lead us to the promised land. I'm just saying.

You look at Brady and Manning, and they are great QB's. Yet, you look at thier stats compared to Montana and Marino and they still come up short in a lot of areas.

Gives you an idea of the level Montana and Marino were at.

Pretty crazy stuff.
 
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RonF

RonF

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To me, a QoF is a guy who brings stability to the position for a long period, improves his play and hopefully leads the team to the playoffs and beyond (dare anyone dream Super Bowl?). As of this moment, Leinart is the QoF in my mind but I will again stress the idea that my doubts about that are slowly growing/

I agree with what you say and I'm not really trying to say that Leinart has to be as good as Brady or Manning but I don't see the qualities in Leinart that you listed above. I'm not seeing improvement in his play and I don't see the leadership on the field. I know the Cards will refer to him as our starting QB but I've seen enough football over my lifetime to question if he will be the leader on the field we need. I guess I just don't see in him what others do. I hope I'm wrong as I desperately want us to have someday, a chanpionship team.
 
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RonF

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I'm not big on stats, I'm more focused on can the QB win games especially when the other team played better. There are plenty of games played where the team with all the offensive yards lost the game
 
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RonF

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They make everything look so effortless it's ridiculous

Compare Leinart against any two winning QBs you select, does he match up in talent? Does he throw with accuracy? Can he pick a defense apart? Can he lead this team to a playoff or Superbowl? It seems to me that we're light years away unless Leinart starts playing at another level when he returns.
 

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I think our secondary is more of a concern than our QB situation..... and that says A LOT.
 

Gambit

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You look at Brady and Manning, and they are great QB's. Yet, you look at thier stats compared to Montana and Marino and they still come up short in a lot of areas.

Gives you an idea of the level Montana and Marino were at.

Pretty crazy stuff.

Manning will likely break all of Marino's records (really all of Favre's records), and Brady may not quite but if he keeps playing like he is this year....

Montana's stats were never that eye-popping, it was his ability to drive with the game on the line and break everyone's hearts that makes him a legend.
 

dreamcastrocks

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I'm not big on stats, I'm more focused on can the QB win games especially when the other team played better. There are plenty of games played where the team with all the offensive yards lost the game

You mean like last game?

:bang:
 

AZCB34

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Compare Leinart against any two winning QBs you select, does he match up in talent? Does he throw with accuracy? Can he pick a defense apart? Can he lead this team to a playoff or Superbowl? It seems to me that we're light years away unless Leinart starts playing at another level when he returns.

The easiest question to answer is the playoff/Super Bowl one and that answer is yes...mainly because of the surrounding talent and current coaching staff. Leinart, IMO, is not good enough to lift the entire offense on his shoulders and carry it (and you can say that about alot of great QBs).

I think Leinart has the physical talent to match up with alot of the winning QB's out there but I will allow for the fact that he is still growing into the NFL game so while he is not at their level, I think he can achieve what alot of the winning QBs have done over time.

Honestly, I question his mental toughness/ability and that may hamper his physical skills in the end.

I am slowly starting to question his early penchant for getting hurt in the NFL. He can have all the skills in the world but if he cannot stay on the field for entire seasons, the skills are wasted on the Cards (or any other NFL team).

He is in a difficult leadership position because Kurt is around. Kurt not only has earned a ton of respect around the lockerroom (and league) but I think the players look to Kurt in times of crisis long before they look to Matt. That will be an issue until Kurt is gone...or Matt starts playing decent.

Picking a defense apart requires good coaching, even better play calling and then executing those plays. There are times Rex Grossman or Josh McCown have picked apart defenses and Matt is probably (hopefully) better than them so I think at some point the game will become easy for Matt and you will see him dissect more defenses.

Next year is make or break for Matt, assuming he wins his starting job back...if the Cards make the playoffs this year, he may have to earn the job back from Kurt.
 

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Leinart's had essentially one full season as a QB, if that, and you guys feel you can pick apart where he's going to be 5 - 10 years from now? I don't think you can judge anyone's future potential this early in their career.

I have no idea how good (or bad) he will be, but I'm very willing to give him the time to find out. I believe he has tons of potential.
 
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RonF

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The easiest question to answer is the playoff/Super Bowl one and that answer is yes...mainly because of the surrounding talent and current coaching staff. Leinart, IMO, is not good enough to lift the entire offense on his shoulders and carry it (and you can say that about alot of great QBs).

I think Leinart has the physical talent to match up with alot of the winning QB's out there but I will allow for the fact that he is still growing into the NFL game so while he is not at their level, I think he can achieve what alot of the winning QBs have done over time.

Honestly, I question his mental toughness/ability and that may hamper his physical skills in the end.

I am slowly starting to question his early penchant for getting hurt in the NFL. He can have all the skills in the world but if he cannot stay on the field for entire seasons, the skills are wasted on the Cards (or any other NFL team).

He is in a difficult leadership position because Kurt is around. Kurt not only has earned a ton of respect around the lockerroom (and league) but I think the players look to Kurt in times of crisis long before they look to Matt. That will be an issue until Kurt is gone...or Matt starts playing decent.

Picking a defense apart requires good coaching, even better play calling and then executing those plays. There are times Rex Grossman or Josh McCown have picked apart defenses and Matt is probably (hopefully) better than them so I think at some point the game will become easy for Matt and you will see him dissect more defenses.

Next year is make or break for Matt, assuming he wins his starting job back...if the Cards make the playoffs this year, he may have to earn the job back from Kurt.

Good comments.
 

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So basically, what you are saying is, a second-year injured QB is not as good as two, first-ballot HOFers?
 

dreamcastrocks

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So basically, what you are saying is, a second-year injured QB is not as good as two, first-ballot HOFers?

How were you able to figure that out?
 
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RonF

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Leinart's had essentially one full season as a QB, if that, and you guys feel you can pick apart where he's going to be 5 - 10 years from now? I don't think you can judge anyone's future potential this early in their career.

I have no idea how good (or bad) he will be, but I'm very willing to give him the time to find out. I believe he has tons of potential.

Yes, I think you can tell a QB right out of the box if he is a gamer or not. There are certain qualities you can see in a player that give you that warm fuzzy feeling we all want. I have'nt seen that in Leinart, yet. It may come, time will tell.
 

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This is slightly off-topic, and not directed at anyone, but I seem to recall people questioning Peyton Manning's ability to win a big game as recently as a year ago.
 

dreamcastrocks

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This is slightly off-topic, and not directed at anyone, but I seem to recall people questioning Peyton Manning's ability to win a big game as recently as a year ago.

We need to get to a big game, before we can question if we can win it or not.
 

nashman

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Yeah Manning was in question a year ago. I think this thread is a few years premature, as we don't know what we have in Leinart yet. What we do know is he has been a winner and has the tools to be a good QB, will that come to fruition while he plays for the Cards? Wait and see.
 

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Manning and Brady are top 10 all time HOF Qb's, maybe top 5, hell Manning
may retire the best QB ever statistically and Brady is better than Manning IMHO because of all the wins in big games over the years.
 

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