Len needs to start (Chandler needs to be traded)

[JCSunsfan]

After this spell where Len started in place of Chandler (due to the death of Chandler's mother), it has become clear to me that Len needs to start. He has played well and was establishing himself as a defensive anchor. Yes, he has made some boneheaded plays like throwing away several inbounds passes in the Wolves game. But those things should improve as he continues to grow. Len is the future, if not, we need to know it now. He does not need to sit on the bench and watch anymore. Its time for him to be what he can be. That is a defensive rim protector and rebounder with enough interior offense to keep teams honest. He is a younger version of Tyson Chandler.

I am not criticizing Chandler. He is playing well. The Suns have not have a physical presence like Chandler in the middle in a long time (save Len). I admire him for wanting to stay here. But he is too good to back up Len, and Len should not be backing him up. Chandler ought to be traded to a contender, or to a team that thinks it can be a contender with a little interior help.

Its just the next step in the development of this young team.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

Len is not the future for the suns. This summer when he expects starting center pay its up to MCdummy to do the right thing and let him walk unless he can package him in a trade. He is not worth 10 - 13 mil per.

 

[elindholm]

Len is not the future for the suns. This summer when he expects starting center pay its up to MCdummy to do the right thing and let him walk unless he can package him in a trade. He is not worth 10 - 13 mil per.

Then they might as well trade Len now, because his next contract will be close to double that.

 

[leclerc]

I agree with OP. Sign Len to a fair deal and move Chandler. Get another big body in to compete with A1 for backup minutes. If Len does not pan out we can look around the league or in the draft. I think Len will work in run and gun Suns basketball with Booker & co. Chandler is too good and expensive to play backup.

If the new market is expensive we still have to pay top dollar for equal talent. At least with Len we have the opportunity to get a good price. If not then good riddance.

 

[Errntknght]

I was surprised EW didn't have Len continue starting - his play was good with Chandler missing, and the last time is was half decent was when he was a consistent starter, though Watson was not here to see it. At that time the team as a whole played better when Len was on the floor - I was never sure exactly why that happened but lots of people remarked on it. It would probably help him if Chandler were traded so there would be no specter of being summarily demoted. Also that trade will open the door for Alan Williams, who is a competent back up for Len already. I don't expect it to improve the team immediately but it will give us a better idea of how much we are willing to spend to keep Len and a better handle on Alan, too. I think the two of them can play together - like when we really need to limit opponents to one shot. (I don't have a problem with Len being pushed more to the perimeter on offense even though he sucked big time before - he really does need to gain confidence in his 17 ft jumper to be as good as possible.)

Another thought I had on improving the team - arrange the lineups so Booker plays as much as possible with Ulis and encourage them to work out sets to spring Booker for more open shots. Its not that the other guys are ignoring him but he doesn't get many good looks. Bolster his confidence and he'll make a better percentage of his tough shots - we've seen him do it now and then, so he's capable.

 

[sr7706]

Len is Hot garbage. Will never be a quality starter or player. Players who were undrafted or 2nd round picks are better than Len. Those of you calling for The Suns to sign him for 10+ mil a year are nuts.


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[Mainstreet]

I was surprised EW didn't have Len continue starting - his play was good with Chandler missing, and the last time is was half decent was when he was a consistent starter, though Watson was not here to see it. At that time the team as a whole played better when Len was on the floor - I was never sure exactly why that happened but lots of people remarked on it. It would probably help him if Chandler were traded so there would be no specter of being summarily demoted. Also that trade will open the door for Alan Williams, who is a competent back up for Len already. I don't expect it to improve the team immediately but it will give us a better idea of how much we are willing to spend to keep Len and a better handle on Alan, too. I think the two of them can play together - like when we really need to limit opponents to one shot. (I don't have a problem with Len being pushed more to the perimeter on offense even though he sucked big time before - he really does need to gain confidence in his 17 ft jumper to be as good as possible.)

Another thought I had on improving the team - arrange the lineups so Booker plays as much as possible with Ulis and encourage them to work out sets to spring Booker for more open shots. Its not that the other guys are ignoring him but he doesn't get many good looks. Bolster his confidence and he'll make a better percentage of his tough shots - we've seen him do it now and then, so he's capable.

I agree with a couple of your points.

Len should have remained the Suns starting center. I think he responds better when he is not looking over his shoulder. The Suns need to what they have before he becomes a RFA.

Although Booker played well against Denver (and many other games) I thought he frequently gets lost as to his role. It seemed like early in the Denver game he was looking to pass the ball to set up other players when he was the best option. He is the best player on the Suns. The Suns should be looking to get him the ball. Perhaps playing Ulis with Booker would help.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I don't mind Len starting, but I wouldn't trade Chandler. I would, however, punt PJ and Knight to the curb as fast as I could.

 

[3rdside]

I'm with JC on this one - keep him and trade chandler (with knight, I think might be our best option..), we do not want another Lopez on our hands and Len has shown plenty that he can be good. Dude only started playing ball at 13 so he's still super raw and im confident the shot from the elbow will come at some point.

We're losing big time on the IT trade, on top of the Lopez trade, and dragic had 27 and 17 today (but who's counting lol). I really don't want another club benefitting from our talent again.


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[3rdside]

*No rush on this by the way, maybe in the offseason


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[sunsfan88]

I'm still not sold on Len. He has looked disinterested and just awful in the past. Now this season, his contract year, he's suddenly trying and rebounding and playing somewhat decent? I don't think that's a coincidence.

I feel like he will get paid and then revert back to being useless. Similar to what Milwaukee Bucks have in their hands with Plumlee or Omer Asik before that.

Alan Williams has shown that he can basically put up similar numbers as Len if given playing time and Williams will cost a whole lot cheaper too. Plus Williams doesn't have lingering injury issues like Alex Len either.

BTW Len is also on the receiving end of the most posterizing dunk in NBA history since Vince Carter in the Olympics 16 years ago

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[Suns_fan69]

BTW Len is also on the receiving end of the most posterizing dunk in NBA history since Vince Carter in the Olympics 16 years ago

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Eh, I'd much rather him go up and try to contest than be afraid of getting on a poster.

 

[Mainstreet]

Eh, I'd much rather him go up and try to contest than be afraid of getting on a poster.

Exactly. I would rather have a player contest a shot rather than worry about getting posterized. IMO, getting posterized is overblown. I would rather the player give his full effort rather than back away. Besides, Len has been getting some blocked shots.

Looking at that block attempt by Len against LaVine again, Len came very close to blocking that shot. No disgrace in that. If Len had blocked that shot, he would have been on a highlight reel.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm still not sold on Len. He has looked disinterested and just awful in the past. Now this season, his contract year, he's suddenly trying and rebounding and playing somewhat decent? I don't think that's a coincidence.

I feel like he will get paid and then revert back to being useless. Similar to what Milwaukee Bucks have in their hands with Plumlee or Omer Asik before that.

Alan Williams has shown that he can basically put up similar numbers as Len if given playing time and Williams will cost a whole lot cheaper too. Plus Williams doesn't have lingering injury issues like Alex Len either.

BTW Len is also on the receiving end of the most posterizing dunk in NBA history since Vince Carter in the Olympics 16 years ago

This means nothing. He contested it. Some you block and some you don't. LaVine's an athletic marvel. There is no shame in Len's play there.

 

[BC867]

... doesn't have lingering injury issues like Alex Len either.

This needed to be included in the discussion. Alex Len's previous health issues do not warrant putting all of our eggs in his basket.

 

[sunsfan88]

This means nothing. He contested it. Some you block and some you don't. LaVine's an athletic marvel. There is no shame in Len's play there.

Ok that's just one small part of my argument. Even without the posterizing, he still isn't worth the insane money he's probably going to get next summer.

 

[3rdside]

Don't know who said it but it wasn't me....we need to start Len and see what he's got and pay him accordingly.

Trade Chandler asap iow.

 

[Phrazbit]

How is Len not getting enough PT to showcase what he can do? He is playing 24 minutes a night right now... more than enough opportunity to show himself.

 

[3rdside]

Seems like he's a different beast when he doesn't start and the only way we get rid of Knight is by pairing him with an asset i.e. Chandler.

 

[Phrazbit]

Seems like he's a different beast when he doesn't start and the only way we get rid of Knight is by pairing him with an asset i.e. Chandler.

First off, we're waaaaaaaaaay under the cap, there is no point in pairing Knight with an asset simply to get rid of him, we'd be fine just cutting him. Secondly, Len isn't the kind of guy you make drastic roster sacrifices over. He likely is backup level talent, he needs to learn to play the roles required of him, rather than us gifting him the starting job despite that he can't quite attain mediocrity in any role thus far.

Chandler has real value, trading him for nothing is stupid. If we did trade him only to for Len to confirm that he simply isn't good enough to be a starter, so we let him go in free agency, now we're left with essentially nothing at center (and two teenagers at the 4). Basically, if your goal is to recreate the last 5 years of Sixer basketball, that is a good way to do it.

 

[3rdside]

And that is my fear also: The sixers analogy is pretty good.

On top of the desire for Len to start, it also depends how badly we want to lose knight and get something in return for him, or a package that includes him, and a joint chandler trade may be the only way to do that.

But yeah, it leaves us in a worrying position unless we get something decent back.






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[JCSunsfan]

First off, we're waaaaaaaaaay under the cap, there is no point in pairing Knight with an asset simply to get rid of him, we'd be fine just cutting him. Secondly, Len isn't the kind of guy you make drastic roster sacrifices over. He likely is backup level talent, he needs to learn to play the roles required of him, rather than us gifting him the starting job despite that he can't quite attain mediocrity in any role thus far.

Chandler has real value, trading him for nothing is stupid. If we did trade him only to for Len to confirm that he simply isn't good enough to be a starter, so we let him go in free agency, now we're left with essentially nothing at center (and two teenagers at the 4). Basically, if your goal is to recreate the last 5 years of Sixer basketball, that is a good way to do it.

I agree. There is no need to pair Knight with any asset just to get rid of him. In fact, I don't think we would even have to cut him. I am quite sure Philly would take him off our hands for free right now, and may even give us an asset in return.

I disagree with your second point. But I don't have to elaborate there, because I already have in this thread.

Chandler has significant value, especially to a contending team (Warriors, Cavs, Spurs etc).

 

[3rdside]

Seems like he's a different beast when he doesn't start and the only way we get rid of Knight is by pairing him with an asset i.e. Chandler.

Oh man I just re-read this...I was at a pete tong gig last night so let's just say I wasn't in the clearest states of being when i wrote it. Of course we can get rid of Knight without a joint trade...

 

[leclerc]

I want a quality player to give our bench more punch. Not a cornerstone player (Knight's not worth it) but a solid role player. Include Chandler to get a really good player we can keep long term, while the young uns grow up. We still need a stud in this year's draft and/or a star FA (trading assets).

 

[Mainstreet]

If the Suns could trade the Morris twins and get assets in return then they should be able to trade Knight and get an asset in return as well. I think Knight has more value than some Suns fans think. The Kings might be another team interested in Knight.