Leonard for Rivers or Brees?

[Brian]

LVCARDFREAK,

Who said anything about the Cards should wait for Quinn in '07.......my post only said that Quinn is unlikely to declare this year. Talk about twisting a post into something that was neither said nor implied.

I thought we both kinda did.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=858353&postcount=7

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=858470&postcount=20

 

[Brian]

Quinn was mentioned.....revisit the list.

Uh, yeah, I know.

I kinda figured it was self-explanatory that I was gratuitously pimping Quinn.

i.e. you mentioned Quinn, but you forgot to mention ESPECIALLY Quinn, which was followed by a smilie...............

 

[overseascardfan]

Even if Quinn returns to school and we miss out on Leinhart, I like Jay Cutler out of Vanderbilt. The guy has size 6'4 225, a strong arm, and is very nimble in the second round

 

[Stout]

I'm just tired of the same sorry argument. NEXT year we'll worry about it. NEXT year it'll be better. We'll patch different holes this year and fix the QB position NEXT year. No. Fix it. Trade, sign a FA, or draft a QB. FIX IT. Stop the waiting. Stop the pain. If the Cards brass thinks Rivers is the kid, then trade for him. If Brooks is the guy they like, sign him. If Leinart is our savior, trade up for him. Waiting another year to even try and get him means waiting another TWO years minimum to realistically expect our QB to have a real impact. Here's a novel thought...how about we ACTUALLY TRY TO GET A QBOF INSTEAD OF TALKING ABOUT DOING IT SOMEDAY. That should be simple enough for you people to understand.

 

[DutchmanAZ]

How about understanding this??

I thought that was the logic for drafting Plummer?
Without a decent offensive line, it won't matter who you put at QB.
Last Sunday's game showed that (albeit against a goofed up team) when given time, Warner will suffice. Now that we've shown we can pass protect a little, if we could only run block better.
If an offensive line gives the QB time to throw, and opens up running lanes, perhaps Navarre is the long term answer providing he's teachable

 

[Brian]

Here's a novel thought...how about we ACTUALLY TRY TO GET A QBOF INSTEAD OF TALKING ABOUT DOING IT SOMEDAY. That should be simple enough for you people to understand.

Ok then, who?

Get Leinart? Trade who and how many draft picks to get him? How far are you willing to go? This team needs a whole lot more than a QB.

Is Brooks the answer? Hardly. Would you forego a shot at Young or Quinn in '07 just to have him? God I hope not.

Is Rivers the answer? Same as above. If the brass thinks so maybe it'll get done.

I understand your frustration, most of us feel the same way. I am merely proposing that we give Warner another year or two to play and mentor next year's 1st round pick.

In all reality, this discussion doesn't mean anything until we see who declares this year and who doesn't.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

LVCARDFREAK,

Who said anything about the Cards should wait for Quinn in '07.......my post only said that Quinn is unlikely to declare this year. Talk about twisting a post into something that was neither said nor implied.

Reread your own post. Better QB's in 07 (Quinn, Jacobs etc)

Talk about not knowing what you post, sheesh

 

[Duckjake]

Looking at these draft selections it would appear that Tackles are much harder to acquire than QB's.

'04 Robert Gallery and Shawn Andrews
'03 Jordan Gross and George Foster
'02 Mike Williams, Bryant Mckinnie,Levi Jones, Mac Columbo
'01 BIG, Kenyatta Walker,Jeff Backes

Meanwhile the following QB's were available

Eli Manning, Phil Rivers, Ben Roeth., JP Losman
Carson Palmer and Byron Leftwich
David Carr and Joey Harrington
Mike Vick and Drew Brees

 

[BigDavis75]

Looking at these draft selections it would appear that Tackles are much harder to acquire than QB's.

'04 Robert Gallery and Shawn Andrews
'03 Jordan Gross and George Foster
'02 Mike Williams, Bryant Mckinnie,Levi Jones, Mac Columbo
'01 BIG, Kenyatta Walker,Jeff Backes
s is a bulding bl
Meanwhile the following QB's were available

Eli Manning, Phil Rivers, Ben Roeth., JP Losman
Carson Palmer and Byron Leftwich
David Carr and Joey Harrington
Mike Vick and Drew Brees

Also, only 5 of those guys currently play LT and only 4 start whereas 9/10 start of the QBs.

I would not trade Big for either Brees or Rivers. Big is a building block and neither of those guys are good for a vertical offense.

 

[Stout]

Ok then, who?

Get Leinart? Trade who and how many draft picks to get him? How far are you willing to go? This team needs a whole lot more than a QB.

Is Brooks the answer? Hardly. Would you forego a shot at Young or Quinn in '07 just to have him? God I hope not.

Is Rivers the answer? Same as above. If the brass thinks so maybe it'll get done.

I understand your frustration, most of us feel the same way. I am merely proposing that we give Warner another year or two to play and mentor next year's 1st round pick.

In all reality, this discussion doesn't mean anything until we see who declares this year and who doesn't.

Am I providing the answers? No, but then I'm not running the club. And what happens if Quinn returns to school and bombs? If the vaunted '07 club doesn't live up to billing next season? Wait 'til the NEXT year then, eh?

 

[Stout]

I thought that was the logic for drafting Plummer?
Without a decent offensive line, it won't matter who you put at QB.
Last Sunday's game showed that (albeit against a goofed up team) when given time, Warner will suffice. Now that we've shown we can pass protect a little, if we could only run block better.
If an offensive line gives the QB time to throw, and opens up running lanes, perhaps Navarre is the long term answer providing he's teachable

You don't have to be a rocket scientist in our organization to know that you can actually get a good QB and fix the O-line at the same time. You also don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that Warner, while maybe good for a little while longer, ain't the QBOF.

 

[DutchmanAZ]

You don't have to be a rocket scientist in our organization to know that you can actually get a good QB and fix the O-line at the same time. You also don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that Warner, while maybe good for a little while longer, ain't the QBOF.

Quite the detective work and you're right. BUT - I'm not seeing anyone in the upcoming draft who will be available that will make a difference. Breeze or Rivers will cost too much and cripple the team further salary wise.
What's the consensus on Navarre now that it seems McCown will be rode out of town on a rail? I ain't saying he's Brett Favre, but he sure looked better than Favre ever did in Atlanta. Who knows?

 

[Jetstream Green]

Not with the current state of the line

Davis seems to always give his expected jump offsides every freaking game but if that is not inlcuded in the mix, he clearly is the best player on a OL in need of talent and as LT he has played very well except for those dumb founded penalties. I would give our number one pick on draft day for Rivers if Leinart does not seem a possibility. Give a player from this current squad with it, no. Leinart and Rivers are still unproven in the NFL and a pick is a gamble so I can see the balance in the trade but not for a player who we know has value to us.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Well, considering that John Navarre has shown more as a pro than Rivers, why would you want to trade our best OL for him?

 

[Pariah]

I'm not seeing anyone in the upcoming draft who will be available that will make a difference.

What do you mean by "make a difference?" Make a difference on opening day 2006, or make a difference in 3 years?

I don't think anyone is advocating drafting a QB and not resigning Warner. In fact, I've seen a number of threads dedicated to signing Kurt for 2 more years while a young guy sits.

Nobody is saying a QB alone will make a difference. Everyone recognizes the O line is an area of concern and isn't advocating fixing one position over another.

It's time we stop F'ing around with the QB position and put a player in place that can be the leader for this team for a long time. That doesn't mean we need to start that player from day-1. That doesn't mean we can ONLY adress that position in the off-season. All that means is that when the opportunity presents itself to draft a qualiy player in the single most important position on the football team, we take it.

EDIT: As for Navarre, I'm not willing to put all of my eggs in a 7th round draft pick basket. If he turns out to ba another Tom Brady, great. Chances are he won't. IMO, we don't have enough time with this team to wait abother year on drafting a QB if that's the route we're going to go to get the QBOF.

 

[Pariah]

Well, considering that John Navarre has shown more as a pro than Rivers, why would you want to trade our best OL for him?

I'm not for trading Davis, but come on. Rivers HAS shown more than Navarre--at the college level.

Even though Rivers hasn't taken an NFL snap (far as I know), probably everyone in the NFL sees him as the more promising prospect. That's why Rivers was drafted at the start of day 1 and Navarre was drafted at the end of day 2.

 

[CardFan67]

I'm not for trading Davis, but come on. Rivers HAS shown more than Navarre--at the college level.

Even though Rivers hasn't taken an NFL snap (far as I know), probably everyone in the NFL sees him as the more promising prospect. That's why Rivers was drafted at the start of day 1 and Navarre was drafted at the end of day 2.

Phillip Rivers NFL stats
Year---- TM -| -G -| --Comp-Att--PCT-YD-Y/A-TD-INT-|-Att-Yards-TD
| 2004 --sdg- |- 2 -|--- 5---- 8 --62.5-33-4.1 --1- 0 --| -5- -5---- 0

 

[duckfallas]

LOL...is that true?

How did he know?

 

[duckfallas]

I would say Leonard is the one who has occasionally been playing the ball this season. I might trade him for something like a defensive line player but not a QB. He's a good LT but he should be a great LT by now. He takes up too much cap space to not play at a higher level. Doesn't play up to his salary. He also seems to be up and down from year to year but I'm sure he'll be great in his contract year.

Who would replace him? As overpaid as he is, it might do more damage than good to put a new player at that position.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I would say Leonard is the one who has occasionally been playing the ball this season. I might trade him for something like a defensive line player but not a QB. He's a good LT but he should be a great LT by now. He takes up too much cap space to not play at a higher level. Doesn't play up to his salary. He also seems to be up and down from year to year but I'm sure he'll be great in his contract year.

Who would replace him? As overpaid as he is, it might do more damage than good to put a new player at that position.

Why should he be a great LT by now? He hasn't even been a starter there for 2 years yet.Now if Mac had the brains to put him there from day 1 then you could make a better judgement on him.After next year there will be a fiar amount of time to evaluate him.

 

[Russ Smith]

Is a legitimate stud QB. He is big, strong, smart and does a great job reading the field and making things happen. He may even be a more NFL-ready QB than Lienart in the right system. He is running an NFL system now and he has picked it up very quickly under Weis. I would love to see him fall to us or when he decides to stay at ND we can trade UP for him next year!

JC

Leinart has been running an NFL system for 3 years, USC plays as much a proset NFL offense as anybody in college.

 

[Russ Smith]

This is exactly the attitude that has to GO. This is the pervasive attitude every single year, and not to be insulting, but it makes zero sense. Let's wait another year...the grass will be greener. Meanwhile, we continue year after year without our QBOF. How about we become pro-active and get our QBOF NOW, in THIS offseason? *gasp* Shocking concept.

Agreed, it was great that Kurt came back and has lit it up but in a sense it could backfire if it once again fools Green and the guys making decisions into thinking they don't need to address the QB of the future yet because they have Warner. Remember it was what 6 weeks ago that Kurt got hurt and many of the same people were saying he's clearly not capable of staying healthy let's go with Josh. Josh had his chance, apparently he proved to Green he's not the guy.

But people have to remember there are 30 NFL teams we might play in the future that do NOT have Larry Marmie designing their defense. Most NFL teams decided a long time ago the bend and then catastrophically collapse defense is not a good thing.

I hope Warner plays that well the rest of the year but he's still one hit away from being injured again and the Cards need to remember that. Sign him for next season sure, but you better get a viable young QB prospect as well.

 

[john h]

This is exactly the attitude that has to GO. This is the pervasive attitude every single year, and not to be insulting, but it makes zero sense. Let's wait another year...the grass will be greener. Meanwhile, we continue year after year without our QBOF. How about we become pro-active and get our QBOF NOW, in THIS offseason? *gasp* Shocking concept.

You are correct Stout. Anytime we have a chance to get a guy we perceive as the QB of the future we should take him. We have been waiting for how many years now?

 

[DieHardFromMO]

I hope Warner plays that well the rest of the year but he's still one hit away from being injured again and the Cards need to remember that.

Isn't everybody one hit away from being injured. Warner doesn't have any special claim that says one hit and he is done. McCown is the guy who has taken the vicious hits this year.

Can McCown sidestep a pass rusher better than Warner? Yes. But in the end a sack is a sack is a sack and no matter who is playing the position they are susceptible to coming up lame at the end of the play. McCown can elude the rush longer but he still takes a pounding and is just as likely to be injured as Warner or any other QB in the game.

 

[Russ Smith]

Isn't everybody one hit away from being injured. Warner doesn't have any special claim that says one hit and he is done. McCown is the guy who has taken the vicious hits this year.

Can McCown sidestep a pass rusher better than Warner? Yes. But in the end a sack is a sack is a sack and no matter who is playing the position they are susceptible to coming up lame at the end of the play. McCown can elude the rush longer but he still takes a pounding and is just as likely to be injured as Warner or any other QB in the game.

But given his history do you think it's likely Kurt could hold up a full season as the starter anymore?

I don't, he's playing well and I'm definitely interested in keeping him past this season I just think the team has to be sure they address who's going to replace him. Green seems to be hinting he thinks Navarre is the QB of the future based on his comments that he thinks John will turn out like other Michigan QB's.