Let's Talk About How Important a Head Coach Really Is

[kerouac9]

I was doing some research on Head Coaches earlier and was going to make an argument that head coaches don't really matter. It's not the Xs and Os, it's the Jimmys and Joes. THen I ran tino a big problem named Ken Whisenhunt, who was so bad that he carried a stench from the Cards to the Titans and won like 6 games in three years. Hue Jackson is on a 2-35 run going back to his time with the Raiders.

There are head coaches who will be bad.

There are also head coaches who will be good. A great head coach is the NFL's most undervalued commodity. Who's worth more: Carson Palmer or Jim Harbaugh? Andy Reid or Matthew Stafford?

How many good head coaches are there, though? IMO, John Harbaugh, Reed, and Belicheck are on another level. Everyone else is on a replacement level to bad — more dependent on the talent around them than elevating it. You could put anyone in Miami or with the Chargers and they'd win or lose 9 games and it wouldn't matter.

IMO, Arians was on the upper tier of those replaceable coaches.

 

[sdscard4]

Head Coach = Ultimate Puss

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

I was doing some research on Head Coaches earlier and was going to make an argument that head coaches don't really matter. It's not the Xs and Os, it's the Jimmys and Joes. THen I ran tino a big problem named Ken Whisenhunt, who was so bad that he carried a stench from the Cards to the Titans and won like 6 games in three years. Hue Jackson is on a 2-35 run going back to his time with the Raiders.

There are head coaches who will be bad.

There are also head coaches who will be good. A great head coach is the NFL's most undervalued commodity. Who's worth more: Carson Palmer or Jim Harbaugh? Andy Reid or Matthew Stafford?

How many good head coaches are there, though? IMO, John Harbaugh, Reed, and Belicheck are on another level. Everyone else is on a replacement level to bad — more dependent on the talent around them than elevating it. You could put anyone in Miami or with the Chargers and they'd win or lose 9 games and it wouldn't matter.

IMO, Arians was on the upper tier of those replaceable coaches.

Those 3 coaches you mentioned are very X's and O's type guys.

 

[BillsCarnage]

And then there's Marv Lewis, who defied all human logic.

 

[Harry]

Sadly there are far more jobs than there are good HCs.

 

[sdscard4]

Just earlier when I was thinking about Mr 30 Brian Flores and how I ain't getting Munch I came to the conclusion that the best fit right now would be....Del Rio. Why not

 

[WildBB]

You know the best HC's have the best surrounding them. That has not been the case here. We had Bowles for awhile, but the others were pretty pedestrian for the most part. I think Keim should have insisted on more changes within the Ariens' staff. Too much predictability and too little adaptation.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wait... Flores is 30 years old?

 

[Paso Fino]

The best coaches now are Belichick and Saban. Neither one regularly calls the offensive or defensive plays. I don't know that either one got to where he is now by being a great offensive or defensive coordinator. What sets them apart is an uncanny ability to find, one way or another, great competitors and to seriously analyze their opponents and find their weaknesses. With that in mind, it is extraordinarily hard for MB and SK to find such a person. The fact that a person has excelled as an offensive or defensive coach does not mean that the person would be a great head coach. I think what you would want is a person who is highly intelligent, highly motivated and superb at selecting the best people to be his offense and defense staff members.

 

[Jasper]

Head coaches are only as good as their OC and DC combined.

However a good head coach can take a perennial playoff contender to a SB championship.

A bad headcoach can stink up a franchise for years.

 

[kerouac9]

You know the best HC's have the best surrounding them. That has not been the case here. We had Bowles for awhile, but the others were pretty pedestrian for the most part. I think Keim should have insisted on more changes within the Ariens' staff. Too much predictability and too little adaptation.

Are we sure about that? Charlie Weis was trash. Doug Pederson is probably just a guy. None of those Baltimore DCs have gone on to much (and there were no shortage of them).

I think that the best head coaches create an environment where their assistants look their best. I think it’s what separates Chip Kelly from being a great college coach/coordinator from being a great pro coach. Prolly Nick Saban, too. He famously feuds with his assistants.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Very important. Sets the tone for the whole franchise.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Are we sure about that? Charlie Weis was trash. Doug Pederson is probably just a guy. None of those Baltimore DCs have gone on to much (and there were no shortage of them).

I think that the best head coaches create an environment where their assistants look their best. I think it’s what separates Chip Kelly from being a great college coach/coordinator from being a great pro coach. Prolly Nick Saban, too. He famously feuds with his assistants.

In other words....A CEO

 

[Chopper0080]

IMO, some sort of expertise is a requirement. There are schematic principles that enable them to gain an advantage. You also have to be able to teach. Most of the best HCs you see are ones whose teams improve over the course of the year. As they get more time with players, those players get better.

It is all symbiotic in the end. A coach needs players. Players need a GM to select them. And a GM needs a coach to maximize those players talents.

Top coaches in the league...
Belichick
Reid
Marvin Lewis
Jason Garrett
Zimmer
Carroll

I also think Shannahan will be pretty good.

Some might question Lewis and Garrett...look, they both have kept their teams pretty competitive in extremely chaotic environments with either a sub par QB or a transition at QB. Zimmer has been great without any consistency at QB. Carroll's bad seasons are now 9 wins.

 

[Buckybird]

IMO, some sort of expertise is a requirement. There are schematic principles that enable them to gain an advantage. You also have to be able to teach. Most of the best HCs you see are ones whose teams improve over the course of the year. As they get more time with players, those players get better.

It is all symbiotic in the end. A coach needs players. Players need a GM to select them. And a GM needs a coach to maximize those players talents.

Top coaches in the league...
Belichick
Reid
Marvin Lewis
Jason Garrett
Zimmer
Carroll

I also think Shannahan will be pretty good.

Some might question Lewis and Garrett...look, they both have kept their teams pretty competitive in extremely chaotic environments with either a sub par QB or a transition at QB. Zimmer has been great without any consistency at QB. Carroll's bad seasons are now 9 wins.

I just don’t think Garrett & Lewis are good HCs in this league. Better than Tomlin, Quinn, Harbaugh & Peyton? Hmmm

 

[Buckybird]

I was doing some research on Head Coaches earlier and was going to make an argument that head coaches don't really matter. It's not the Xs and Os, it's the Jimmys and Joes. THen I ran tino a big problem named Ken Whisenhunt, who was so bad that he carried a stench from the Cards to the Titans and won like 6 games in three years. Hue Jackson is on a 2-35 run going back to his time with the Raiders.

There are head coaches who will be bad.

There are also head coaches who will be good. A great head coach is the NFL's most undervalued commodity. Who's worth more: Carson Palmer or Jim Harbaugh? Andy Reid or Matthew Stafford?

How many good head coaches are there, though? IMO, John Harbaugh, Reed, and Belicheck are on another level. Everyone else is on a replacement level to bad — more dependent on the talent around them than elevating it. You could put anyone in Miami or with the Chargers and they'd win or lose 9 games and it wouldn't matter.

IMO, Arians was on the upper tier of those replaceable coaches.

Agree with much of what you say K9, but imo most HCs are only as good as his QB!

Most of the time a team stands no chance of success with a very good QB

 

[Shane]

Chopper said best coaches in league and used Marvin Lewis to drive home the point...

 

[cardpa]

The best coaches now are Belichick and Saban. Neither one regularly calls the offensive or defensive plays. I don't know that either one got to where he is now by being a great offensive or defensive coordinator. What sets them apart is an uncanny ability to find, one way or another, great competitors and to seriously analyze their opponents and find their weaknesses. With that in mind, it is extraordinarily hard for MB and SK to find such a person. The fact that a person has excelled as an offensive or defensive coach does not mean that the person would be a great head coach. I think what you would want is a person who is highly intelligent, highly motivated and superb at selecting the best people to be his offense and defense staff members.

These two are what I believe set apart guys like Belichick from the rest of the herd. Their ability to filter through what an opponent does well and not well and implement that into his teams game plan and to find coaches that he can trust implicitly and have similar traits he does.

 

[BigRedRage]

Head Coach = Ultimate Puss

man...that got me

 

[BigRedRage]

the best coaches rotate their staff.

Look at Whiz and BA: they both came in and did great.

Whiz after a few years of losing coordinators didn't go out and get top flight guys and instead promoted from within and things got worse every year. When whiz first hired his staff we had HC candidates for coordinator and coordinator candidates as position coaches.

BA after a few years refused to acknowledge the bad ST play and promoted DC from within and while did ok at DC, was a noticeable drop off from the previous.

I am curious what happens in seattle the next two years now that they just refreshed the coaching staff.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Head Coach = Ultimate Puss

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[don7031]

In other words....A CEO

I would say COO. Operations instead of executive. The head coach is all about organization. He decides who does what, where, when, and how.

 

[Chopper0080]

I just don’t think Garrett & Lewis are good HCs in this league. Better than Tomlin, Quinn, Harbaugh & Peyton? Hmmm

Most coaches in this league could not have managed the Romo/Prescott and then Zeke/JJones situations like Garrett did. He was awesome. Garrett has managed that storm in Dallas, and kept the team competitive amidst a ton of drama. That is impressive to me. That is a separator.

Marvin Lewis has done a similar job in Cincy. He has a terrible owner. He had turn around a train wreck franchise in the Bungles. He had to weather his front office running off his franchise QB in Palmer. He has stayed competitive in a very tough division with Andy Dalton as his QB, who is hot garbage. He has been given head cases and goof balls by his front office, and still held it together. That is impressive to me.

Tomlin has underachieved with a Hall of Fame QB in Roethlisberger. Yes, I know the Patriots are the Tiger Woods to the Steelers Phil Mickelson, but top coaches don't crap the bed like the Steelers did against Jacksonville.

John Harbaugh has been mediocre with one of the best front offices in the NFL. Meh.

Sean Peyton. Another guy who has done less with a Hall of Fame QB IMO. In a historically weak division, the Saints should be consistently on top of it, and they just haven't been. His inability to get the right defensive staff around him is another area that looks badly on Peyton.

Just my thoughts.

 

[kerouac9]

IMO, some sort of expertise is a requirement. There are schematic principles that enable them to gain an advantage. You also have to be able to teach. Most of the best HCs you see are ones whose teams improve over the course of the year. As they get more time with players, those players get better.

It is all symbiotic in the end. A coach needs players. Players need a GM to select them. And a GM needs a coach to maximize those players talents.

Top coaches in the league...
Belichick
Reid
Marvin Lewis
Jason Garrett
Zimmer
Carroll

I also think Shannahan will be pretty good.

Some might question Lewis and Garrett...look, they both have kept their teams pretty competitive in extremely chaotic environments with either a sub par QB or a transition at QB. Zimmer has been great without any consistency at QB. Carroll's bad seasons are now 9 wins.

I think it's too early to tell on Shanahan. Zimmer is like Arians in that it took him WAY too long to get a HC gig. Hard to believe he's already been in Minnesota five years.

I can kind of see where you're coming from with Marvin Lewis. Coaching in Cincy is like having a 25 lbs. weight attached to your ankle.

Garrett is maybe a replacement-level Head Coach. Couldn't do much with Romo, and Dallas always seems to have good talent.

Definitely on Peter Carroll.

I just think there are probably 6 great NFL head coaches, 4 or 5 head coaches that actively hurt their teams, and a bunch of replacement-level guys. I don't think there's much of a difference between Jay Gruden and John Fox.

 

[Chopper0080]

Chopper said best coaches in league and used Marvin Lewis to drive home the point...

I give more credit to people who succeed despite their circumstances vs those who succeed in ideal circumstances. The level of respectability that Lewis has been able to achieve despite one of the most dysfunctional franchises I have ever seen is impressive to me.