Levi Brown is our 2012 LT, so who do you want for RT

[Chopper0080]

I'd do it because while he has plus athleticism for a guy his size, his technique still needs a lot of work. If he's playing on the right, he can use his athleticism and strength to protect the QB while he perfects the technique he's developed at Georgia.

Again, it worked with Jonathan Ogden; I see no reason why it couldn't work with Cordy Glenn.

Although I would get some satisfaction in watching Cordy Glenn learn on the job at Left Tackle while letting Kevin Kolb bear the brunt of his rookie mistakes, with the knowledge that with every second-and-17 that Kolb delivers, we'll be a little bit closer to Tyler Wilson and a bright future for the Arizona Cardinals.

I see where you are coming from, but I am probably one of the few on this board who believes there is a huge difference in switching sides of the offensive line. I believe it is easier to either slide in or out on the same side than to flip over to the opposite side and play the same position. I believe feet and positioning are so key to being a consistent offensive linemen, and flipping sides essentially forces a player to retrain his muscles. I view it as asking a right handed QB to flip his foot work to that of a lefty.

Also, like you said, if Glenn is being drafted as our future LT that he learns the position while we have our current QB depth rather than transitiong in the future when we have a younger QB.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

At some point it's going to dawn on people that Levi is the L-Taclkle for the foreeeable futiure and the team is addressing the right side of the line. Can't imagine that any drafted tackle, other than Kahlil, would start to the left in 2012. If McNeil could pass a physical he wouldn't be on the market.

+1

And that has a lot of people greatly depressed about this team.

+1

I have stopped complaining about it though. It is not worth the time or frustration. The situation at LT is what it is, and IMHO, it is not good. When our QB's are hitting the turf at a record pace it will be no surprise to me, and if this is the bed the Caridnals want to make, then they will have to sleep in it.

Same with Campbell's situation, his salary, and his eventual leaving of the franchise IF Graves doesn't get that job done either.

It what it is, and nothing is going to change the situation. No OT we draft will fix the situation, the Cardinals don't have the savy to make the cap room to bring in a LT, so Levi Brown it is, and Campbell at 10mil for one season it is, and Kolb at 10mil for this season it is.

How this organization is going to "make it work" is what I concentrate on. Thus worrying/talking about RT, and just accepting our LT for who he is.

The only way I see it working, is a full buy in to make the defense dominant, and rely on our special teams play (whoops sorry we didn't upgrade our special teams, punter, either).

Regardless, this team is rebuilding. How I can say that and the organization has no cap room either is contradictory, but it is a fact. This team will be lucky to go 8-8 as it stands. Not a bad thing if they go 8-8 at all, but with the roster they have, I don't see how they can be any better than last year, especially as teams in our division continue to do what it takes to grow their respective teams, and the Cardinals sit stagnant.

Again. My extremely and very humble opinion of course. Could be 100% wrong, and where CC and myself very much RESPECTFULLY disagree.

But back to the topic at hand. I have confidence that the Cardinals can draft a RT, and there is a good chance that player can start on day 1. My worry is that they don't get the opportunity to draft a RT, and don't bring in a RT after the draft in free agency, and then we put Snyder at RT. At least if it is Bridges I would have some confidence in the RT position. Just leave Snyder at OG, and let him be the "solid" guard that we brought him in to be, and not another Brandon Keith-like OT. As I said, if the Cardinals have to put Snydger at RT, then just re-sign Keith, and put him there.

Cause all this talk about what to do at RT is nice to talk about, and makes me feel better about the situation. But, knowing the Cardinals if they come out of the draft empty handed they will probably do what they do best in these situations, and that is nothing. Just throw in someone already on the roster, and "deal with it" for now.

We will see.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

And that has a lot of people greatly depressed about this team.

Then they are easily depressed.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

+1



+1

I have stopped complaining about it though. It is not worth the time or frustration. The situation at LT is what it is, and IMHO, it is not good. When our QB's are hitting the turf at a record pace it will be no surprise to me, and if this is the bed the Caridnals want to make, then they will have to sleep in it.

Same with Campbell's situation, his salary, and his eventual leaving of the franchise IF Graves doesn't get that job done either.

It what it is, and nothing is going to change the situation. No OT we draft will fix the situation, the Cardinals don't have the savy to make the cap room to bring in a LT, so Levi Brown it is, and Campbell at 10mil for one season it is, and Kolb at 10mil for this season it is.

How this organization is going to "make it work" is what I concentrate on. The only way I see it working, is a full buy in to make the defense dominant, and rely on our special teams play (whoops sorry we didn't upgrade our special teams, punter, either).

Regardless, this team is rebuilding. How I can say that and the organization has no cap room either is contradictory, but it is a fact. This team will be lucky to go 8-8 as it stands. Not a bad thing if they go 8-8 at all, but with the roster they have, I don't see how they can be any better than last year, especially as teams in our division continue to do what it takes to grow their respective teams, and the Cardinals sit stagnant.

Again. My extremely and very humble opinion of course. Could be 100% wrong, and where CC and myself very much RESPECTFULLY disagree.

I frankly don't see anything of real consequence being done by division rivals that will impact on the Cardinals ability to compete. Any improvement on the right side of the O-line is an important step. We have a number of "return to health" improvements and players who, with a year or two in, could breakout. And, I expect at least one first season contributor out of the draft.

We are not rebuilding; we are adding a piece here and there.

Maybe we are 8-8 at end of season, but, I doubt that the division winner will have more than 10 wins. There are alot of things that broke in SF's favour last season that aren't likely to repeat themselves; for one - a ridiculously high positive turn over ratio. Seattle hasn't solved its QB issue, and St-L is in a full rebuild.

 

[Duckjake]

I see where you are coming from, but I am probably one of the few on this board who believes there is a huge difference in switching sides of the offensive line. I believe it is easier to either slide in or out on the same side than to flip over to the opposite side and play the same position. I believe feet and positioning are so key to being a consistent offensive linemen, and flipping sides essentially forces a player to retrain his muscles. I view it as asking a right handed QB to flip his foot work to that of a lefty.

Also, like you said, if Glenn is being drafted as our future LT that he learns the position while we have our current QB depth rather than transitiong in the future when we have a younger QB.

You know all this talk about the offensive line has convinced me that THESMEL is right and CKW did hate Matt Leinart. The coaches moved their #1 draft pick Tackle away from protecting Matt's blind side and replaced Levi at RT with a 7th round pick out of Northern Iowa!

Well maybe the coaches thought lightning would strike twice with very late round or undrafted Northern Iowa players.

 

[Rats]

And that has a lot of people greatly depressed about this team.

I decided to not give a rip who is on the Oline...Whomever it is I just want them to perform as a group. This starts with good coaching which Grimm has not shown that he knows his ass from his elbow with regards to pass protection. I will not be depressed about the team because we do have answers on Defense. I am hopeful if guys are healthy.

 

[Snakester]

At some point it's going to dawn on people that Levi is the L-Taclkle for the foreseeable future and the team is addressing the right side of the line. Can't imagine that any drafted tackle, other than Kahlil, would start to the left in 2012. If McNeil could pass a physical he wouldn't be on the market.

I notice you don't often agree with what the right thing to do is. Those are things I would like to see to help the line. Will the Cards most likely start Levi at LT no matter who they draft of course. But it would be nice to put Levi at RT where he would be a good RT. It would also be a smart move to leave him there instead of moving him from side to side. I would much rather have 4 line spots solid and know where the one weak spot is that way we can shift a TE or RB over to help out a rookie LT like Reiff.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I notice you don't often agree with what the right thing to do is. Those are things I would like to see to help the line. Will the Cards most likely start Levi at LT no matter who they draft of course. But it would be nice to put Levi at RT where he would be a good RT. It would also be a smart move to leave him there instead of moving him from side to side. I would much rather have 4 line spots solid and know where the one weak spot is that way we can shift a TE or RB over to help out a rookie LT like Reiff.

I don't consider a rookie at L-tackle as the right thing to do. I'll leave the guy who gave up one sack in the last 8 games of 2011 there for now.

 

[WildBB]

I don't consider a rookie at L-tackle as the right thing to do. I'll leave the guy who gave up one sack in thr last 8 games of 2011 there for now.

Whoever they draft at 13 or lower, there will be a transition period. So your right, Levi is the LT for now.

Even DeCastro could have a bit of a wait, before he's inserted for good.

 

[Dayman]

I don't consider a rookie at L-tackle as the right thing to do. I'll leave the guy who gave up one sack in thr last 8 games of 2011 there for now.

It was actually the last 6 games after giving up 10 sacks in the first 10 games.
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/04/re-focused-seahawks-cardinals-week-17/

After giving up 10 sacks, five hits and 32 hurries through 10 weeks of the year, Levi Brown has only given up one sack and eight hurries in the last six games. Think he may be looking to Free Agency?

The legend of Levi's second half of the season is taking on a life of its own. I appreciate the fact that he closed out the end of his contract year well, but it shouldn't negate his prior 4.5 years of questionable play. Especially to the point of drafting a pure RT in the first round, which would lock Levi into the left side for the foreseeable future.

 

[ajcardfan]

Last year was quite typical for Levi IMO. I think he played better in the 2nd half of the season, compared to the first, every single year he's played.

 

[kerouac9]

It was actually the last 6 games after giving up 10 sacks in the first 10 games.
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/04/re-focused-seahawks-cardinals-week-17/

The legend of Levi's second half of the season is taking on a life of its own. I appreciate the fact that he closed out the end of his contract year well, but it shouldn't negate his prior 4.5 years of questionable play. Especially to the point of drafting a pure RT in the first round, which would lock Levi into the left side for the foreseeable future.

I honestly think the major difference was Kevin Kolb hitting the training table and John Skelton getting his feet under him. Levi Brown isn't great, but he's been better than the guy we've seen the last two years under Anderson/Hall/Anderson/Skelton/Kolb/Skelton.

Brown was a disappointment even when Warner was starting, but not an embarrassment. I think that with more settled QB play, he'll go from embarrassment back to mere disappointment again.

Unfortunately, we have to wait until 2013 first-round draft pick Tyler Wilson is in his second year as a starter to really see that, because Kolb isn't a very good quarterback.

 

[Dayman]

I honestly think the major difference was Kevin Kolb hitting the training table and John Skelton getting his feet under him. Levi Brown isn't great, but he's been better than the guy we've seen the last two years under Anderson/Hall/Anderson/Skelton/Kolb/Skelton.

Brown was a disappointment even when Warner was starting, but not an embarrassment. I think that with more settled QB play, he'll go from embarrassment back to mere disappointment again.

Unfortunately, we have to wait until 2013 first-round draft pick Tyler Wilson is in his second year as a starter to really see that, because Kolb isn't a very good quarterback.

I agree that the QB change helped the O-line a ton. Kolb's pocket presence was among the worst I've ever seen, which is saying something for a Cards fan. And I was actually kind of happy to see Levi back. I just want to see him back on the right side. Maybe it was just the presence of Warner, but Levi's lack of quickness seemed to be less of an issue when he was a RT. I don't see that quickness improving as he ages, either. As a RT, I think we can do worse than Levi. As a LT, I fear he'll always be less than average, no matter who's playing QB. I simply don't see the physical skills required to play the position effectively.

 

[Chopper0080]

I honestly think the major difference was Kevin Kolb hitting the training table and John Skelton getting his feet under him. Levi Brown isn't great, but he's been better than the guy we've seen the last two years under Anderson/Hall/Anderson/Skelton/Kolb/Skelton.

Brown was a disappointment even when Warner was starting, but not an embarrassment. I think that with more settled QB play, he'll go from embarrassment back to mere disappointment again.

Unfortunately, we have to wait until 2013 first-round draft pick Tyler Wilson is in his second year as a starter to really see that, because Kolb isn't a very good quarterback.

We trading up?

 

[kerouac9]

I agree that the QB change helped the O-line a ton. Kolb's pocket presence was among the worst I've ever seen, which is saying something for a Cards fan. And I was actually kind of happy to see Levi back. I just want to see him back on the right side. Maybe it was just the presence of Warner, but Levi's lack of quickness seemed to be less of an issue when he was a RT. I don't see that quickness improving as he ages, either. As a RT, I think we can do worse than Levi. As a LT, I fear he'll always be less than average, no matter who's playing QB. I simply don't see the physical skills required to play the position effectively.

This isn't the NFL of a decade ago, where dancing bears like Jonathan Ogden, Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Chris Samuels, and Tony Boselli walked the earth. Because of changes to the college game, these kinds of legitimate elite offensive tackles are exceedingly rare. There are IMO two in the League today, and one of them wasn't healthy last year.

I think that Brown's lack of lateral quickness is a little overstated. I firmly believe that he's fast enough to engage with opposing defensive ends and drive them back away from the passer. He's probably quicker than Mike Gandy was when he was starting. The problem is that Keith was so bad that we couldn't protect Brown with a tight end on his side, which we did often even early last season when both Jeff King and Todd Heap were healthy and effective.

We trading up?

For a legit QB next year, I'd be fine actually using our #2 and a 2014 first-round pick to move up. But if Whis is going to lash himself to Kevin Kolb for the 2012 season, we may not have to move up that much. Also, Wilson will maybe be in a new offense, or at least an offense not being headmastered by Bobby Petrino, so it could be that he'll appear to be a lesser prospect while the 2013 edition of RGIII rises to the surface.

Otherwise, I'll live with Matt Barkley or Landry Jones.

 

[JeffGollin]

It is unclear to me whether our problems in pass protection were due exclusively to (a) poor pass blocking, (b) poor QB play or (c) inability of our receivers to separate and get open.

It appears that there are 3 camps on this board - each claiming it was one thing and not either of the 2 others.

Quite possibly, the problem rests with all three (If you only fix one or two problems, you're gonna have to live with the 3rd - & that may be OK - unless it isn't).

My guess is that both QB's will improve. My hope is that our receivers and O-line will improve a bit depending on who we draft at WR and, to a lesser degree OL. But I'm not betting on it.

 

[THESMEL]

4th

So you dimiss thesmel camp of run the damned ball - dissmissed utterly and completely? It is the stupid playcaller- all 3 of them calling the least amount of rushing attempts - producing the least amount of rushing yards during Levis 5 years starting at either side? Coaching fundementals promised and ignored religiously.

There is no coach in NFL history that would ask their tackle or oline to protect immobile QB's and Max Hall - with the defense knowing that the we planned to pass every down! In fact we told them - please blitz Levi Brown - we dare you- rather SB contender or worse team in the NFL we dare you to blitz Levi and this oline - every stinking time we have the ball.

We will kill off our defense and special teams, our momentum, we fully expect to go 3 and out - 50% or more of the time- but our offense will put pressure on your defense till we die or you die, It kind of all depends on Levi Brown with Edge reading and protecting!

Oops top 10 all time HOFFER Edge Balked - bench him -Cut him after the Super farting bowl! - and start the worse NFL rusher but willing blocker THT for the next 3 season. Draft Beanie- oops Beanie Balked too! better keep starting THT and bench the Bean!

just look at where Whiz steelers ranked in rush and pass attempts compared to his stupidity here with the Cardinals, Yea Kurt had to retire early or face permanent dissability and Brenda!

Link
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/WhisKe0.htm

It is unclear to me whether our problems in pass protection were due exclusively to (a) poor pass blocking, (b) poor QB play or (c) inability of our receivers to separate and get open.

It appears that there are 3 camps on this board - each claiming it was one thing and not either of the 2 others.

Quite possibly, the problem rests with all three (If you only fix one or two problems, you're gonna have to live with the 3rd - & that may be OK - unless it isn't).

My guess is that both QB's will improve. My hope is that our receivers and O-line will improve a bit depending on who we draft at WR and, to a lesser degree OL. But I'm not betting on it.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Brown was a disappointment even when Warner was starting, but not an embarrassment. I think that with more settled QB play, he'll go from embarrassment back to mere disappointment again.

Wow, we are hoping to being disappointed in our LT instead of embarrassed and that's the best case scenario.

Sad for sure.

 

[Stout]

Then they are easily depressed.

And unsurprisingly, CC refuses to badmouth a decisions the Cards FO has made. I'll see you 8 games and raise you 4 1/2 years of suckage.

 

[THESMEL]

It is Bridges, For someone to take it from him? I have not seen it on the field, They seen Keith, Herman, in practice, but in a game- Bridges is nasty and plays better.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

And unsurprisingly, CC refuses to badmouth a decisions the Cards FO has made. I'll see you 8 games and raise you 4 1/2 years of suckage.

I just temper my criticism given a shortage of facts and try to avoid sweeping indictments. And (this is not directed at you) simple is for simpletons.

 

[Duckjake]

I decided to not give a rip who is on the Oline...Whomever it is I just want them to perform as a group. This starts with good coaching which Grimm has not shown that he knows his ass from his elbow with regards to pass protection. I will not be depressed about the team because we do have answers on Defense. I am hopeful if guys are healthy.

This is exactly what my problem is with the offensive line of the Cardinals. Modern Technology gives us the opportunity to watch games of every team in the NFL (Game rewind for instance). I see other teams offensive lines look like a coordinated unit while the Cards look like 5 guys each acting on their own.

Two other things I've wondered about our offensive line are: one they tend to stand up like they were going to pass block instead of firing out on run plays and two the Tackles use their arms to shove defenders instead of engaging them as other teams tackles do with our guys.

 

[Stout]

I just temper my criticism given a shortage of facts and try to avoid sweeping indictments. And (this is not directed at you) simple is for simpletons.

Yes, but it seems to go beyond that (and thanks for the clarification). You actively defend them, instead of simply trying to temper people's opinions.

 

[THESMEL]

Grimmed

each of our oline make their own read and react each play, Do you remember the smarter than the average line read on the Card site a couple years back?

Now when they don't read nor react the same- it looks like a joke, but when they do it is Grimms baby. Man I don't know hat you guys expect? I mean Kurt broke all kind of records and is headed to the HOF, lit up the NFL behind this oline, We went to Our first Super Bowl behind it.

So when you shout how bad Levi and this oline it makes you look pretty crappy, and if you have not got a clue it makes you look even worse. Sorry that is how I read this play!

This team never ran the ball 40% and the numbers are not balanced, some games we had 25 total rushes, many games we had 10 or less? and you want to measure this oline by traditional stats? Beanie was getting like 7 carries or benched when he was healthy- Edge was benched when he was healthy.

They kept and immobile QB upright for 600 pass attempts a year while last in rush attempts and rush yardage, that is amazing! to have success is a MINDBLOWING performance by Levi and this OLine. They were coached into the worse possible position to succeed as a unit! and they took us too rthe promised land!

Like the Giant OLINE could not with Kurt, Rams and Giants both had staffs that embracrd the running game, Whiz hates it with a passion.

This is exactly what my problem is with the offensive line of the Cardinals. Modern Technology gives us the opportunity to watch games of every team in the NFL (Game rewind for instance). I see other teams offensive lines look like a coordinated unit while the Cards look like 5 guys each acting on their own.

Two other things I've wondered about our offensive line are: one they tend to stand up like they were going to pass block instead of firing out on run plays and two the Tackles use their arms to shove defenders instead of engaging them as other teams tackles do with our guys.

 

[Duckjake]

lit up the NFL behind this oline,

Only one player from the offensive line of 2008-09 is still at his original position.

And even then they couldn't block well enough to run out the clock at the end of games and the Cards, despite 17-3 or 21-0 leads they got from passing, were having to hang on to win and they were bottom 5 each year in Sacks+QB hits.