Lonzo Ball

[hsandhu]

I want fultz, but it doesn't seem that will happen with the suns board... so Im trying to convince myself on lonzo.

Tell everyone if I'm wrong, but ball seems clearly faster and seems to have more bounce in terms of second jump, etc...

Any disagreements there?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I want fultz, but it doesn't seem that will happen with the suns board... so Im trying to convince myself on lonzo.

Tell everyone if I'm wrong, but ball seems clearly faster and seems to have more bounce in terms of second jump, etc...

Any disagreements there?

Wait you have seen the Suns board? Not to mention they still have a ton of interviews and workouts to go through before they make a decision anyways. Also we still don't even know where they will be picking yet.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I want fultz, but it doesn't seem that will happen with the suns board... so Im trying to convince myself on lonzo.

Tell everyone if I'm wrong, but ball seems clearly faster and seems to have more bounce in terms of second jump, etc...

Any disagreements there?

Ball is slower than Fultz, especially with his first step.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The KJ discussion is interesting. Fultz kinda reminds me of KJ while Ball reminds me of Kidd.

Both were great pgs.

Ball is slower than Fultz, especially with his first step.

I don't think so.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Fultz is a better defender, is faster, and a better shooter. He literally has zero holes in his game.

Fultz has declared for the 2017 NBA Draft. Fultz is the most complete prospect in the draft. He has great size and athleticism for his position and can do just about anything he wants offensively. He's a great shooter, ball handler, passer and finisher at the basket. There are some questions about his defense, but overall, NBA GMs feel he's the safest pick in the draft. He's likely to go either No. 1 or No. 2 on draft night and currently sits at No. 1 on our Big Board.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Even though I feel that Fultz is a complete player and Ball has serious questions about his ability to score in the NBA, I am sure the Suns are one of the 7 that rank Ball over Fultz.

Among these 14 teams, Fultz and Ball are essentially in a dead heat -- each player has seven teams that would take him No. 1. Adding up the odds of the teams slated for the lottery based on ESPN's Basketball Power Index (BPI), Fultz has a slightly better chance of going No. 1 overall at 55 percent.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Fultz is a better defender, is faster, and a better shooter. He literally has zero holes in his game.

No scout I have ever seen says Fultz is the better defender. They say that Fultz has defensive potential but looks uninterested on D at times. I have seen several that say that Ball is the better defender.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Okay, let me help you with that.

April 12 update: Fultz might have the edge on Ball, but it's a small one, and Ball's fans are pretty adamant that he holds more upside than Fultz. His ability to make plays for others stands out as his strongest attribute for scouts.

"Put Fultz on the floor with the same UCLA teammates, and I don't think they're nearly as successful," one GM said.

Still, Ball's porous defense causes many who prefer Fultz to wonder whether Ball can have the same impact on both ends of the floor.

Against Kentucky Ball literally could not guard Fox because of Fox's speed. Fox went off for 39 while Ball shot 4-10 from the field

 

[Chris_Sanders]

That is NBA GMs literally saying "Ball's porous defense causes many who prefer Fultz to whether Ball can have the same impact on both ends of the floor"

 

[Chris_Sanders]

And for those touting his shooting, just go rewatch the Kentucky / UCLA game where a team took away his strengths.

Ball shot 4-10. 1-6 from 3 point land and got to the line twice.

He has almost no half court game. He isn't quick enough to beat a player like Monk and get to the line.

Meanwhile Monk went to the line 15 times that game on his way to 39 points because Ball could not guard him one on one.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Okay, let me help you with that.

This is putting all evaluation in one game in which Ball played with a tweaked hammy. If it can be established that that game is representative of his entire body of work, fine, but I don't think it is.

Your entire evaluation Ball seems to be about one game. I just don't find that credible.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

This is putting all evaluation in one game in which Ball played with a tweaked hammy. If it can be established that that game is representative of his entire body of work, fine, but I don't think it is.

The defense comment wasn't based one game. That is NBA GMs telling you he isn't a very good defender.

 

[slinslin]

just no, bust waiting to happen

You can't be a great PG but be mediocre at best in the pick and roll as well as struggling in the half court.

What are some of the important things for the successful PGs in the league today?

1. Can score in many ways.
2. Can create offense off the dribble for themselves.
3. Can run the pick and roll.
4. Attacks the defense and puts pressure on the defense.

Ball does not do any of that. He has shown zero midrange capabilities and very little breaking down his defender with the dribble.

If you expect Ball can just stand around on the perimeter and pass the ball around in the NBA, I am sorry that won't work and would be completely against what the Suns are doing. We like to have the Ball in Bookers hands, run pick and rolls and let Booker iso.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Fultz was an equal perpetrator to the rest of the group on defense, never showing enough in the way of effort, awareness as to what is happening around him, or decision-making. He got beat by shooters because he wasn’t tight enough on them to start possessions. He got beat on backdoor cuts. He was beaten by ball-handlers due to him not fighting through screens and recovering. He showed no awareness in terms of help defense. He was lazy in transition. Simply put, like his teammates, Fultz has not displayed much of anything positive this year defensively.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-ba...-college-basketball/1zy14aftim0n1rkedxwwkx67j

 

[JCSunsfan]

Okay, let me help you with that.

Do you have a link?

 

[hsandhu]

Even though I feel that Fultz is a complete player and Ball has serious questions about his ability to score in the NBA, I am sure the Suns are one of the 7 that rank Ball over Fultz.

I'm pretty sure too, on the draft stuff gambo has pretty good history... if he says suns clearly have ball number 1 I believe it.

 

[Bodha]

Fultz is substantially better than Ball. Its not even close.

 

[hsandhu]

Well, some people might end up rooting for the suns to get 3 and take jackson, if they get 1 or 2 there is gonna be some meltdowns on this board, better hope gambo is wrong.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Do you have a link?

Do you have ESPN Insider? If so, just go to NBA -> Draft

and then click on Ball and Fultz's draft profiles (or any other players).

 

[JCSunsfan]

Do you have ESPN Insider?

No.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

No.

Can't help you there. There are some good scouting videos on YouTube about their respective defense.

Short summary:

Ball doesn't defend changes of directions well because he has bad feet. He also gets heavily faked out if the man he is defending decides to not use the screener.

Second one is fixable. 1st one concerns me greatly.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Well, some people might end up rooting for the suns to get 3 and take jackson, if they get 1 or 2 there is gonna be some meltdowns on this board, better hope gambo is wrong.

I won't melt down unless we end up at 4. While I have a strong preference, I believe both players will be very good.

 

[hsandhu]

I won't melt down unless we end up at 4. While I have a strong preference, I believe both players will be very good.

You think ball will be good, but are just concerned about some stuff?

4 is not meltdown, most draft people have tatum ranked very highly as well, 5 is the bad news.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Correct I believe Ball will be an All Star at some point based solely upon his passing and his ability to make his teammates better.

I think Fultz has the ability to be a top 10 player in the NBA.

 

[hsandhu]

The one positive of ball over jackson is he likely will be a big time three point threat in the nba,even without the ball.

This will open the floor for booker, last year he got so many traps and packing of the paint because teams didn't guard bledsoe at the 3 point line.

Booker can operate like harden, eventually with chriss as the Main screener, but he needs more open space