Lou's Views #2: Dbacks Should Bid Farewell To Melvin & Coaching Staff

[KingLouieLouie]

Macha reportedly has declined to sign an extension with the As and wants to see what other openings are likely to be available first. Works for me. Again, if George Brett was interested, that'd be a name to add, but at the Futures game he sort of said he's not sure he's ready to bite off that much. Put Backman on Antabuse and give him another shot.

When was it reported that Macha declined to sign an extension w/the A's? Was it right after they traded both Mulder and Hudson or was it after when Haren and Blanton began to dominate along with Harden continuing to show the greatness that he did last season? True.. it did seem like a fire-sale in Oakland, however, Beane crafted the A's in the manner that has been typified by that franchise.. how they produce some of the best prospects (like they did in the 70s and then the 80s/90s..of course some of the latter was tarnished by steroids) that end-up solidfying a foundation of players that win some World Series in the process.... It would be totally unwise for him to leave that organzation now when they have some much long-term promise that it is unreal....

Tosca got three guys thrown out at the plate in two days by underestimating the Brave's much-vaunted young outfielders and catcher while grossly overestimating the speed of our aging players, and that plus the hidden ball trick should be nearly enough to get his head handed to him.

I wonder whats the obsession with the Dbacks always bringing back coaches that had been w/the franchise before who didnt accomplish much elsewhere.. What really warrants their return? They might as well re-hire ERod next since he was in fact better than Tosca..and that doesnt mean anything whatsoever...

Bringing Cormier out for two innings today just totally blew my mind - there was no reason, no excuse, it was outrageous misuse, and Melvin and Davis should be publically horsewhipped. I suspect the reason Koplove got sent down was because he's reportedly been complaining about some of the bullpen use (as he did last year, correctly) - because he actually had equal or better numbers in the last few weeks than some of the much younger (and thus quieter)guys they kept up instead.

Saying Koplove has been equal to Cormier (or the other younger relievers) isnt implying much either since they've all been equally horrid.... Koplove though is expected to do better in any situation regardless since he's been through almost anything before, but has completely lost it...Whether it be mentally, mechanically, physically...he's been horrible... I still contend on how he was included in that initial Dodgers trade-package really distracted him and that he's been pitching thru some undisclosed injury, but is in fear of revealing anything since I believe this is his contract year and despite how lousy he's been this season..he feels that making others aware of any injury would further limit his potential to sign some long-term deal elsewhere... Quite honestly.. he's only had one solid season and the others have been mediocre at best....

I have another point though... the Dbacks Strength & Conditioning coach much go as well... It just seems most of their players (IE relievers) are completely out-of-shape and I wonder if that has lead to most of their ineffectiveness along with some of their constant injuries.....

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I have another point though... the Dbacks Strength & Conditioning coach much go as well... It just seems most of their players (IE relievers) are completely out-of-shape and I wonder if that has lead to most of their ineffectiveness along with some of their constant injuries.....

Funny you bring this up as I was talking about it to a friend the other day. Valverde specifically seems like he has turned around his season due to dropping some pounds and getting in shape (a la Shaq during his Laker days).

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Funny you bring this up as I was talking about it to a friend the other day. Valverde specifically seems like he has turned around his season due to dropping some pounds and getting in shape (a la Shaq during his Laker days).

Precisely....

Don't mean to offend anyone who is battling w/weight problems of their own, however, these are highly paid (I dont care if most are just getting the ML minimum) athletes who are in just the worst shape possible... Look at Bruney, then several like Fetters, Service, Koplove (doesnt seem to be in the best condition himself) Herges, Ligtenberg, and Dessens.... Isnt there a logical reason why they struggle(d) or in Dessens case he would lose complete stamina as the game went on? There's some common thread there.... Then, a few other players didnt add much bulk (well. .the legal way) during the offseason..they seem weaker than most..... It's just time to just eliminate anyone who was involved in any managerial capacity w/the Dbacks since '03..especially when it seems when everything we've been harping about on a constant rate initially started..

 

[Lefty]

Bringing Cormier out for two innings today just totally blew my mind - there was no reason, no excuse, it was outrageous misuse, and Melvin and Davis should be publically horsewhipped. I suspect the reason Koplove got sent down was because he's reportedly been complaining about some of the bullpen use (as he did last year, correctly) - because he actually had equal or better numbers in the last few weeks than some of the much younger (and thus quieter)guys they kept up instead.

Cormier has not pitched a lot the past couple of weeks, so he could go on consecutive days. Here are Lance's stats for the past 6 games he has appeared in before today.

LAST 6 GAMES
OPP W L SV IP H ER BB SO
07/30 @CHC 1 0 0 1.2 1 0 1 3
08/02 HOU 0 0 0 0.2 2 0 0 0
08/04 HOU 0 0 0 1.1 2 1 0 0
08/05 COL 0 1 0 0.0 1 1 1 0
08/10 @FLA 0 0 0 1.0 1 0 1 2
08/13 @ATL 0 1 0 1.0 2 2 1 0

Lance pitched extremely well in the beginning but I think hitters are making the adjustments and they're showing that he is an average pitcher, nothing spectacular.

If you look around the league, there are many bullpen pitchers who are being used 4-5 times a week. I look at pitchers like Timlin in Boston and Gordon and Rivera in New York as examples of guys who pitch a lot coming out of the pen.

KLL is correct when he said both Koplove and Cormier have been horrible. You can say that about almost every pitcher in the bullpen. The only guy right now that I have any confidence in is Papa Grande.

 

[Lefty]

Precisely....

Don't mean to offend anyone who is battling w/weight problems of their own, however, these are highly paid (I dont care if most are just getting the ML minimum) athletes who are in just the worst shape possible... Look at Bruney, then several like Fetters, Service, Koplove (doesnt seem to be in the best condition himself) Herges, Ligtenberg, and Dessens.... Isnt there a logical reason why they struggle(d) or in Dessens case he would lose complete stamina as the game went on? There's some common thread there.... Then, a few other players didnt add much bulk (well. .the legal way) during the offseason..they seem weaker than most..... It's just time to just eliminate anyone who was involved in any managerial capacity w/the Dbacks since '03..especially when it seems when everything we've been harping about on a constant rate initially started..

Look at a guy like Clemens. He is pitching unbelievably at the age of 43 and you can contribute that because he keeps in shape.

Also, look at a guy like Schilling. He never really kept in shape but once he started lifting and doing the offseason workouts, he became a different pitcher.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

If you look around the league, there are many bullpen pitchers who are being used 4-5 times a week. I look at pitchers like Timlin in Boston and Gordon and Rivera in New York as examples of guys who pitch a lot coming out of the pen.

The only way to dispute this is that true..other relievers are being used on a constant basis, however, those you mentioned are veterans who have managed to develop "rubber-arms" over the years... in some cases they came up through the minors in that role.. .not a starter now converted rookie reliever who has to get accustomed to warming-up in the bullpen on a daily/nightly basis (which adds to the wear and tear more) and then is expected to force some of his pitches (which makes them over-extend themselves) because that pitches count more.... one of their pitches ultimately can decide the outcome of the game, so they throw harder and such than that typically would do as a starter... This is exactly what happened w/Villarreal and you would think a team would learn from their past mistakes... But it just seems the Dbacks (especially Melvin and Davis) are totally oblivious.... Didnt they acquire Worrell for a reason? They should have used him today over Cormier with the team down more than 5-runs.. True..they have a day-off tomorrow, but they might be in a situation on Tuesday that calls for Cormier and naturally Melvin will toss him back in there to further ruin what would have been a brilliant career.. It's just that I dont see Cormier ever reverting back to his previous form.... Just do a 'net search on the '98 Tiger's rookie reliever Sean Runyan and just recall Villrreal and you'll know why Cormier is doomed... I mean... DOOMED!!!!!

 

[green machine]

I want this team to go outside of the organization for their next manager. Guys like Brenly and Melvin who have been around tend to have a connection with players that can almost cloud their judgement. I would rather have a fresh face in, someone who the players need to work hard to gain the respect and trust of.

 

[Lefty]

The only way to dispute this is that true..other relievers are being used on a constant basis, however, those you mentioned are veterans who have managed to develop "rubber-arms" over the years... in some cases they came up through the minors in that role.. .not a starter now converted rookie reliever who has to get accustomed to warming-up in the bullpen on a daily/nightly basis (which adds to the wear and tear more) and then is expected to force some of his pitches (which makes them over-extend themselves) because that pitches count more.... one of their pitches ultimately can decide the outcome of the game, so they throw harder and such than that typically would do as a starter... This is exactly what happened w/Villarreal and you would think a team would learn from their past mistakes... But it just seems the Dbacks (especially Melvin and Davis) are totally oblivious.... Didnt they acquire Worrell for a reason? They should have used him today over Cormier with the team down more than 5-runs.. True..they have a day-off tomorrow, but they might be in a situation on Tuesday that calls for Cormier and naturally Melvin will toss him back in there to further ruin what would have been a brilliant career.. It's just that I dont see Cormier ever reverting back to his previous form.... Just do a 'net search on the '98 Tiger's rookie reliever Sean Runyan and just recall Villrreal and you'll know why Cormier is doomed... I mean... DOOMED!!!!!

Yeah, they are veterans but I don't buy into you can use older guys more than younger ones. What Brenly did with Villareal was horrible. Most pitchers would hurt their arms if they pitched as much as Villareal did. There was a stretch where Cormier was being used a lot but I don't think he is being overused now. I think he has been getting hit because he is an average pitcher, not because of a tired arm.

I agree with Worrell. why Melvin did not use him today is beyond me. Maybe he got really drunk last night and couldn't pitch.

 

[Lefty]

Just do a 'net search on the '98 Tiger's rookie reliever Sean Runyan and just recall Villrreal and you'll know why Cormier is doomed... I mean... DOOMED!!!!!

One young guy who has been used a lot in the bullpen this year is Huston Street. This guy is a stud and it will be interesting to see how he pitches in the next couple of years.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Yeah, they are veterans but I don't buy into you can use older guys more than younger ones. What Brenly did with Villareal was horrible. Most pitchers would hurt their arms if they pitched as much as Villareal did. There was a stretch where Cormier was being used a lot but I don't think he is being overused now. I think he has been getting hit because he is an average pitcher, not because of a tired arm.

I agree with Worrell. why Melvin did not use him today is beyond me. Maybe he got really drunk last night and couldn't pitch.

Nah.. more like Melvin and the rest of the coaching staff has huffed too much glue or some other inhalant due to their lame style of managing/coaching throughout this entire season....

Seriously though.... I buy into the theory of the older relievers over the younger ones since they are already morew conditioned both mentally/physically for that role through the years of pitching under any possible situation and also at greater frequency....

One young guy who has been used a lot in the bullpen this year is Huston Street. This guy is a stud and it will be interesting to see how he pitches in the next couple of years.

True.. Street is also a rookie who's been used at a drastic/alarming pace... but quite the opposite of both Cormier and Villarreal.. He was strictly used as a reliever throughout his collegiate and minor league career whereas the aforementioned 2 were both starters turned relievers.... That does make quite the difference.....

I'll admit though.. perhaps Cormier's earlier dominance was an abberration, but we probably will never know either way....which is a travesty though.... Just to reiterate.. you would think everyone in the Dbacks brass would learn... but they will never..... because of the following quote:

I want this team to go outside of the organization for their next manager. Guys like Brenly and Melvin who have been around tend to have a connection with players that can almost cloud their judgement. I would rather have a fresh face in, someone who the players need to work hard to gain the respect and trust of.

I whole-heartedly agree..you captured the essence there.. The only exception would be Matt Williams (since he has a better grasp/understanding of the game compared to most) and perhaps Brett Butler (because he just was brought into the organization this past year and also..he exhibuted all during his career the attributes that all the Dbacks players need.. an excellent awareness of the fundamentals with some skill.. one of the best bunters, base-runners, and overall baseball knowledge of all-time).... But.. please.. nobody else... please dont consider Grace which would be the worst possible choice......

 

[Lefty]

I wonder if Matt Williams would recommend Grace, knowing that they are buddies? I hope not. Grace would be a huge mistake.

I like Butler. That would not be a bad choice. The only question I have is, would he be vocal enough? He was a joy watching when he was a player. They guy had some wheels and him batting from the left side, he had many bunt singles. He wasn't too shabby of a fielder either. A guy who reminds me of Butler is Finley.

 

[AZZenny]

Cormier has pitched more innings than any rookie reliever this year - 3 more than Street. He is 10th in IP overall among all relievers. He has far and away most IP among our relievers.

If you go by the common theory that an arm has X innings per year, however and whenever you use them (and there is some research to support a loose version of this, apparently) - it's not surprising to me that he's struggling. I also just somehow suspect that Oakland, since they use Street as a closer exclusively, hasn't had him warm up and sit down as often as Cormier, who fills a swing role.

Interesting - as his innings have gone up, over the past 4 months, his walks per 9 have gone up steadily while hits and Ks have stayed roughly similar. Batting Avg. Against has also stayed roughly consistent across that time - up and down .010 to .015 or so from month to month.

Sounds like he's gradually losing control as much as being figured out.

The stuff about Macha was from this past week's Sports Weekly/Baseball Weekly, Lou.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

The stuff about Macha was from this past week's Sports Weekly/Baseball Weekly, Lou.

Sorry if my tone in my post regarding Macha came off wrong....I'm just shocked that Macha would consider going elsewhere and of course would be the best news for the Dbacks, but unfortunately.... Lord... all this discussion/speculation might be too premature about Melvin (even though it's lead to an interesting/indepth thread) since they probably wouldnt fire him at least a month l into the '06 season (of course contingent on where they are in the standings) and if Macha indeed did became available would have already been hired way before that...

True..Butler probably does lack in that "fiery" attitude, but then they could hire someone as a bench coach who would compensate in that area...

I brought-up Dave Collins (despite once when I was 9 years-old at a Tiger game while sitting near the Tigers dugout screamed at him "FU Dave Collins" after he had struck-out), but he possesses that aggressive/fierceness that would be perfect... He also knew had to play small-ball with the best of them, knew what it took to win, had some managerial experience in the minors and has coached over the past few years at the ML level.... Perhaps also someone like Dan Gladden or Bill Madlock... someone of that ilk..... No more "softies" who are too stoic... Someone who expresses himself on all levels....

Oh.. back to Grace for a moment... I just dont feel Matt Williams is too fond of him... If Grace really cares.. he would have approached Snyder and given him some pointers/advice on improving himself offensively ... I dont care if that wasnt meant to get on the air, but the fact that Grace was making that type of lewd comment behind his back rather than doing something more constructive proves what type of manager Grace would be.. He would be too "buddy-buddy" with the veterans and very deceptive toward the younger players.. quite similar to Brenly and now Melvin.....

I also like Hal MCrae since he had some relative success with younger players while he managed the Royals, but didnt really receive a fair chance in Tampa Bay.... Perhaps also Tim Raines and Paul Monitor would be some excellent candidates worth considering as well...

 

[Lefty]

Good news, Villareal pitched two scoreless innings tonight in the Sidewinders win.

 

[Lefty]

Mike Aldrette needs to be the first coach fired

We use to bag on Murphy a few years ago but Aldrette is even worse. Maybe Grace could be the next batting coach? It would at least get him out of the tv booth.

 

[Lefty]

Can this offense suck any more? How many double plays do they hit in?

 

[AZZenny]

I agree with you on this, Zona. And - since he was Melvin's personal choice (did the FO pay ANY attention to Seattle the past 2 years?) - Melvin should go with him!

 

[AZZenny]

Clueless in Seattle... now equally clueless here:

"I don't think we've learned anything one way or the other," Arizona manager Bob Melvin said about the trip. "We've been hit-and-miss like we have quite a bit during the season. At some point, getting on a little bit of a roll and a win streak and playing a little more consistently on both sides of the ball -- pitching and offense -- is going to determine where we go. So we haven't seen anything really on this trip that suggests we're going one way or another."

 

[devilalum]

Yeah Melvin and his staff suck but the whole organization stinks.


My biggest complaint of the season is that Joe Blows got to leave town as the conquering hero. It would have been so much more satisfying to see him tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail. (metaphorically of course)

Just go back to the off season and look at how the bungling front office put this team together.

Backman?!?!
Ortiz is a joke.

Some of the other moves were less horrible but even the descent guys have been really inconsistent.

I don't think there's enough talent out there for even the greatest manager in the world to turn this around but right now the team just seems totally uninspired.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Joe Jr. getting the hero's treatment on his way out of town was pretty hilarious. I have no idea why but anyone associated with JC gets a free pass in this town for whatever reason.

While I do think Melvin is awful, I don't think he should get the lion's share of the blame concerning this season. Past front office types and whoever Moorad has up there are the main perpetrators in this disaster of a season. And what's most frustrating about it is that not only is the front office incompetent, but they're also stubborn.

God, this franchise has become such a laughingstock. Wake me up for the press conference this offseason to announce the signings of Tom Glavine, Nomar Garciappara, and Bernie Williams.

 

[devilalum]

Wake me up for the press conference this offseason to announce the signings of .... and Bernie Williams.

4 years $50 million

 

[Lefty]

Wake me up for the press conference this offseason to announce the signings of Tom Glavine, Nomar Garciappara, and Bernie Williams.

You forgot Al Leiter. He's one of those washed-up lefties that the Diamondbacks like to sign.

 

[AzJc]

Melvin's gotta go

I like Jim Leyland as his replacement

 

[boondockdrunk]

Sadly, I agree. Melvin is too laid back for young players and doesn't know how to handle them. Since this team will mostly be made up of young guys for the next year or so, we need a manager who has a fire under his arse. This laid back stuff won't win us any ball games.

 

[AzJc]

he was too laid back when he managed the Mariners, and they were veteren laiden