Love Marion's stat line

[Chris_Sanders]

Another guy who seems to be flourishing right now is Marion. He is playing so good it is like an after thought.

21 points, 9 rebounds, 4 steals, 3 blocks.

Some of the blocked shots he has been making the last two games are flat out amazing. Times when he looks beat and the defender goes up and it is all ball.

Shawn is a consistent jump shot from being Scottie Pippen in his prime. Lately his shot has been really falling and he is moving a lot better without the ball.

 

[SunsTzu]

I was actually dissapointed with the way Marion had been playing. Since Amare came back he has been doing much better. Marion is the ultimate support player but I don't think he'll ever be a go to guy.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Marion is playing perfect right now. He is filling in that second star role. He is playing great offensively AND he is our best man to man defender.

Trust in this, Micheal wouldn't have won crap without Scottie.

 

[SunsTzu]

JJ is our best man defender. Marion is a better help defender and makes play with his athletic ability. While JJ is better at staying with his man runing through picks also he is much stronger and doesnt get backed down as easy as Marion. Since the trade Marion has taken more shots scored fewer points while commiting more fouls and TO's than JJ.

I'm not going as far to say JJ is better than Marion but he sure was struggling until the last 3 games.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Originally posted by SunsTzu
JJ is our best man defender. Marion is a better help defender and makes play with his athletic ability. While JJ is better at staying with his man runing through picks also he is much stronger and doesnt get backed down as easy as Marion. Since the trade Marion has taken more shots scored fewer points while commiting more fouls and TO's than JJ.

I'm not going as far to say JJ is better than Marion but he sure was struggling until the last 3 games.

This is why JJ supporters make me vomit. Allow me to reorientate you to reality.

Shawn Marion is in the NBA:

#13 in rebounds per game
#7 in steals per game
#9 in minutes played
#12 in steals per turnover
#14 in overall efficiency
#10 in free throw percentage
#18 in blocks
#11 in double doubles

He is averaging 18 and 9.

Since December he has been our leading rebounder 20 of the 25 games we have played. He was our leading scorer in 10 of those games as well.

Please tell me more of Marion's "struggles" this season.

 

[SunsTzu]

Ah so your the type of person that feels the need to vindicate themself by putting others down, pretty classy. For a player who has improved every year in the league his play has tailed off. His fg% has gone down and his 3p% is way down. I also do not feel that steals and blocks are a good way to gauge defense. Iverson is always amongst league leader in steals and i wouldn't consider him a good defender. IMO defese is forcing your opponent into bad decisions and shots, I feel JJ is better in this regard. While Marion plays the passing lanes well and is able to get weakside blocks.


Again I'M NOT SAYING JJ IS AS GOOD AS MARION, I do feel he is a better MAN defender. I have come to expect more from Marion than what he has done this year and am more critical since he is the one with the max deal.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Marion's shooting percentage has gone down slightly (1.9%), but that has also coincided with him being forced to play as a 4 instead of a 3.

Meanwhile God, I mean JJ, has been shooting at a wonderous 39% clip. But all of those were 3's with a hand in his face right?

As to Iverson being a leader in steals...yes but he is not a leader in blocks as well.

Marion's blocks have come as much on his own man as on help defense.

I have a sneaking suspicion that now that Penny is gone, Marion is going to be everyone else's favorite whipping boy.

Meanwhile, non Suns fans nearly all regard Marion as one of the best players in the league. NBA Draft.net's message board did this Who is the Best SF thread and Marion was in the top 3 on every post.

 

[SunsTzu]

First off by recently I thought you implied since the trade, if you meant since Amare came back then Marion has done well the last 3 games. The three before that he played quite poorly. Also Marion shot 46.9% last year to this years 43.6% which is a drop of 3.3% not 1.9% and I do think it is note worthy. An even bigger drop is the 3p% he has gone from 39.3% to 32.3%. In a thread discussing recent play I don't see the need to go over ytd stats. We all know Marion out played JJ so far this year, however "recently" JJ has played better. Even with JJ's ups and downs I believe he has been our best man defender since last year.

Still think Marion is a better player but when you have so much invested in a 25 year old player who is suppose to be getting better it's natural to have concerns when his production slips.

 

[BC867]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
Trust in this, Michael wouldn't have won crap without Scottie.

Scotty was unique, serving as Point Forward on a team without a Point Guard.

But Michael was even more unique -- a Guard who TOTALLY dominated every game, more than any other in history.

I believe that if there were no Pippin, there would have been someone else supporting MJ, and they would have kept winning.

But once Scotty didn't have Michael, he was no longer All Star caliber.

 

[devilalum]

Originally posted by BC867
Scotty was unique, serving as Point Forward on a team without a Point Guard.

But Michael was even more unique -- a Guard who TOTALLY dominated every game, more than any other in history.

I believe that if there were no Pippin, there would have been someone else supporting MJ, and they would have kept winning.

But once Scotty didn't have Michael, he was no longer All Star caliber.

The first time Michael quit Scotty lead the Bulls to 57 wins.

Of course that was also the playoffs when Scotty refused to go back into the game.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Originally posted by SunsTzu
First off by recently I thought you implied since the trade, if you meant since Amare came back then Marion has done well the last 3 games. The three before that he played quite poorly. Also Marion shot 46.9% last year to this years 43.6% which is a drop of 3.3% not 1.9% and I do think it is note worthy. An even bigger drop is the 3p% he has gone from 39.3% to 32.3%. In a thread discussing recent play I don't see the need to go over ytd stats. We all know Marion out played JJ so far this year, however "recently" JJ has played better. Even with JJ's ups and downs I believe he has been our best man defender since last year.

Still think Marion is a better player but when you have so much invested in a 25 year old player who is suppose to be getting better it's natural to have concerns when his production slips.

Blah blah...what?

Look I have no desire to argue with you. I don't agree with you in the slightest. I really don't give a Jake Plummer that you don't need to go over year stats because they make your statement of a "struggling season" preposterous.

This was never meant to be a "who's the better player" thread despite your consistent efforts to make it as such.

 

[SunsTzu]

Might want to reread the thread your the one that brought up stats and rankings, I correct you and suddenly stats arn't important? I have no doubt Marion was playing better last year than he is this year.

Also just because you don't agree with someone is no reason to disrespect them.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
Blah blah...what?

Look I have no desire to argue with you. I don't agree with you in the slightest. I really don't give a Jake Plummer that you don't need to go over year stats because they make your statement of a "struggling season" preposterous.

This was never meant to be a "who's the better player" thread despite your consistent efforts to make it as such.

It's pretty obvious to me - Marion's game has been suffering & JJ has been inconsistent - Since the trade, both have done a lot better. Let's hope the both keep up their present style of play.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Originally posted by SunsTzu
Might want to reread the thread your the one that brought up stats and rankings

I'm not going as far to say JJ is better than Marion but he sure was struggling until the last 3 games.

Quite a bit of difference between saying someone has been struggling until the last 3 games and saying someone isn't quite as good as last season. Big difference. Hence the reason you were pointed to the stats.

Also just because you don't agree with someone is no reason to disrespect them.

 

[SunsTzu]

Sorry if you I was not clear but as far as struggling goes I was reffering to the "recent" games, as in the 3 previous(1st 3 after trade). I didn't intend to imply Marion has had a bad year only his production was down from last year.

Again i apologize for the confusion.

 

[frdbtr]

Marion shot 7-of-11 from the field, including 3-of-3 on 3-pointers. He also grabbed nine rebounds, had four steals and blocked three shots Quoted from Iwon.com


Marion is probably over paid by a little but not by much. He is a very Valuable player and the Suns would be stupid to get rid of him. He is a perfect compimentary player next to Amare. The only reason that I think that he is overpaid is becuase Max money should be reserved for Superstars and not role players. Marion is a role player but he is one of the best role players in the league.

 

[Joe Mama]

I think I agree with SunsTzu here. I just read this entire thread, and I don't think he ever said JJ is better than Shawn Marion. In fact he never said that JJ has had a better season than Shawn Marion. I would definitely agree. As I said in another thread earlier today, three weeks ago I would have traded JJ for almost anything.

Over the last 5-6 games (with the exception of the Denver game when he was reportedly sick with the flu) JJ has been the Suns best player. I've been saying since last year that I think he is probably the best man to man defender on the Phoenix Suns. I think Amare Stoudemire is also good, but he is a bit lazy when his man does not have the ball. That's not to say Shawn Marion is in good. I think is a better team defender than man to man.

I don't think we should be getting overly excited about these last two games, but the Suns do look like they are getting better... at least on offense. Defensively they need to be a lot better still.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

Huh?

JJ is an SG. Shawn is an SF. Both played badly eary in the year. Both are doing much better lately. So what is the problem?

Maybe Shawn is overpaid. So what? Unless he is being traded, why worry about it. Maybe someone with Shawns skills shouldn't get a max contract, but it done. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing about it.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
Maybe Shawn is overpaid. So what? Unless he is being traded, why worry about it. Maybe someone with Shawns skills shouldn't get a max contract, but it done. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing about it.

I'm sorry, but you better get used to it. Until Shawn Marion shows that he can be a "go to" scorer and a main man people are going to be complaining about his contract. It will be especially bad when the Suns can't afford to re-sign players that they would actually prefer over Shawn Marion, but they can't trade him because of his salary.

Let's just hope they can win some more games in the meantime.

Joe Mama

 

[scotsman13]

ok i will throw in on this. marion is a better all round player in that he gets blocked shots, steals, rebounds and does a good job scoring. marion a better team defender. marion is a superstar in the team play doing the little things to help his team win a game.

jj on the other hand is better at creating offense for himself and others. jj is a better one on one defender. right now with the ball in jj hands the teams offensive runs easier and freer then what it did before. the team seems to have moved into an area where they are move of 5 good basketball players on the floor then one super good player and the rest of the team.


i dont want to bash marbury but it is seeming like that the team is playing better team ball since he has leave. why i am not really sure expect we dont see so many run down the court and throw up a 3 pointer with 20 second left on the shoot clock.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
I'm sorry, but you better get used to it. Until Shawn Marion shows that he can be a "go to" scorer and a main man people are going to be complaining about his contract. It will be especially bad when the Suns can't afford to re-sign players that they would actually prefer over Shawn Marion, but they can't trade him because of his salary.

Let's just hope they can win some more games in the meantime.

Joe Mama

The only player I would think the Suns would prefer over Marion is Stoudemire.

BC was on the Suns pre-game a little bit ago and talking about how it is Shawn's team and how Shawn does all the things that make you a winner.

He also talked about how admirable Marion had done being forced to play against PFs night in and night out on defense.

I really think the only people who complain about Marion or his contract are some select Suns fans here.

 

[Chaz]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
Huh?

JJ is an SG. Shawn is an SF. Both played badly eary in the year. Both are doing much better lately. So what is the problem?

Maybe Shawn is overpaid. So what? Unless he is being traded, why worry about it. Maybe someone with Shawns skills shouldn't get a max contract, but it done. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing about it.

I agree I am tired of hearing about his salary as well.
As long as Marion is putting up the kind of numbers he has in the last few games I will not complain. If he can get anywhere close to 20 and 10 while working with his teammates and hitting clutch shots when open, I think he will be well worth it. Everyone has had their struggles early this season.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
I'm sorry, but you better get used to it. Until Shawn Marion shows that he can be a "go to" scorer and a main man people are going to be complaining about his contract. It will be especially bad when the Suns can't afford to re-sign players that they would actually prefer over Shawn Marion, but they can't trade him because of his salary.

Let's just hope they can win some more games in the meantime.

Joe Mama

And this, my friends, marks the return of the "Penny Hardaway arguement", which from now on shall be known simply as the "Shawn Marion arguement".

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by SirChaz
I agree I am tired of hearing about his salary as well.
As long as Marion is putting up the kind of numbers he has in the last few games I will not complain. If he can get anywhere close to 20 and 10 while working with his teammates and hitting clutch shots when open, I think he will be well worth it. Everyone has had their struggles early this season.

I agree SirChaz. We all know Shawn didn't play to his potential to start the season. Most of us believe that JJ has yet to fulfill his potential. How can you compare two relatively incomplete games at this point? One's more complete than the other. Fine.

But this isn't comparing Greg Ostertag and Vlade Divac, two guys that have already hit their "peak". These guys are still very young--and have a long way to go before they are judged overall against anyone, let alone each other.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I highly doubt the Suns would have much problem trading Marion if they really wanted to.