Magic vs Suns SL Game Thread 7/9/18

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,418
Reaction score
16,934
Location
Round Rock, TX
There still really raw basketball wise they don't really know how to play yet.
I posted that they were weak, meaning they can't play against bigger and stronger players, and let's face it, you don't have to be that strong to back down Bamba. Of course they don't know how to play yet, it's going to be much harder for them to learn since they have no strength. I would have thought at least Isaac would have progressed on that front.
 

Phrazbit

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Posts
20,312
Reaction score
11,387
Cooley played 9 minutes and had 10 points, 5 boards, an assist, a steal, and a block. He's horrible!
The summer league isn't the NBA and he was horrible the first few games away.

It's a hoot to watch him but largely because he's so obviously out of place.

There is no way he makes a roster.
 

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
22,114
Reaction score
6,547
The summer league isn't the NBA and he was horrible the first few games away.

It's a hoot to watch him but largely because he's so obviously out of place.

There is no way he makes a roster.
He did average 13 and 10 for Notre Dame as a senior. He is not a slouch.
 

sunsfan88

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Posts
11,660
Reaction score
844
Yeah I don’t understand how anyone can hate on Cooley. He’s definitely shown he can belong in the NBA albeit in a small role. His hustle and energy alone at that size is quite impressive.
 

devilalum

Heavily Redacted
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Posts
16,776
Reaction score
3,187
I posted that they were weak, meaning they can't play against bigger and stronger players, and let's face it, you don't have to be that strong to back down Bamba. Of course they don't know how to play yet, it's going to be much harder for them to learn since they have no strength. I would have thought at least Isaac would have progressed on that front.
There's no guarantee that they will ever get much bigger or stronger either. Lots of bigs have come into the league under that premise and get pushed around their entire career.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
63,587
Reaction score
57,994
Location
SoCal
Can Shaq Harrison be our starting pg? He is not a good shooter, but he has done pretty well as a distributor (not great, but OK), but his defense is just stellar. The advantage of that defensive intensity is that it sets the tone on every possession for the entire team. I have always maintained that the defensive work of the pg is underrated. If you can apply defensive pressure on the opposing pg the entire game, it is very difficult for him to get into an offensive rhythm.

Right now, if I had to choose between a shooter or defender for our pg, I would choose a defender. This team needs a defensive presence. I am not trying to make the case, I am just doing a little speculating.

I would not only say “no,” but “HELL NO.” As important as it is for him to disrupt the flow of the opposition as a good defender is the disruption he causes to OUR team as a subpar initiator of our offense. Now understand, I’m criticizing his shooting (which sucks) here, but rather getting us into our offense and execution. He’s lousy at that too. I think as much as he disrupts our opponents defensive he does similar to our offense as the initiator. That’s why I’m great with bringing him off the bench as a chance of pace, but loathe to have him hold back booker, Ayton, JJ, etc in the starting lineup.
 

Chris_Sanders

Not Always The Best Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
40,166
Reaction score
31,697
Location
Scottsdale, Az
There was a defensive play last night that Bender really surprised me. He made an excellent switch, then shot contest, then second shot contest

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

Chris_Sanders

Not Always The Best Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
40,166
Reaction score
31,697
Location
Scottsdale, Az
That was a play that you will never see in a box score but it was fantastic.
 

Raze

Suns fan since '89
Joined
May 20, 2017
Posts
626
Reaction score
599
Location
Arizona
That was a play that you will never see in a box score but it was fantastic.
Funny. I thought the very thing when I saw that play. His fundamentals on D are solid. And when he plays with confidence on O like he did last night you have a the makings of an intriguing prospect. Unfortunately, he hasn't figured out how to put it together every night.
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
118,026
Reaction score
58,324
If we are going to make trades, it has to be soon. It's hard to make trades this time of year. Most GM's just wait for the cuts and pick up players for free. If you want to thin your roster, you have to trade core players.

I still believe a trade will happen. I'm not sure if it has to include core players if the Suns use a draft pick. Also the Suns might trade a second round pick for a PG like they picked up Daniels. I would think there might be a team out there willing to part with one.
 

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,494
Reaction score
4,905
Location
Harrisburg, PA
That was a play that you will never see in a box score but it was fantastic.

Absolutely! Bender actually contested far more shots than anyone else on the roster last year, especially after the All-Star break. Honestly, his fundamentals are what gives me confidence. He still makes mistakes (he lost a defender yesterday, for example), but for the most part, his fundamentals on defense are rock-solid.
 

1tinsoldier

Hall of Famer
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Posts
1,474
Reaction score
549
Location
AZ
There was a defensive play last night that Bender really surprised me. He made an excellent switch, then shot contest, then second shot contest

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

and then trailed and walked towards the other end of the court while everyone else ran

i question why any young athlete can't hustle for 20 minutes
for a half million salary minimum
with thousands/millions watching -- even in summer league
with careers on the line
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
17,365
Reaction score
12,541
Location
Tempe, AZ
Can Shaq Harrison be our starting pg? He is not a good shooter, but he has done pretty well as a distributor (not great, but OK), but his defense is just stellar. The advantage of that defensive intensity is that it sets the tone on every possession for the entire team. I have always maintained that the defensive work of the pg is underrated. If you can apply defensive pressure on the opposing pg the entire game, it is very difficult for him to get into an offensive rhythm.

Right now, if I had to choose between a shooter or defender for our pg, I would choose a defender. This team needs a defensive presence. I am not trying to make the case, I am just doing a little speculating.

We're really going to go back to starting G-League PG's again? Harrison has been frustrating in Summer League with some of the plays he makes or fails to make offensively. His stats are better than how he's looked, as far as the assists he's gotten with few turnovers. I don't think most PG's would have trouble duplicating those numbers with an option like Ayton to throw the ball to inside. Harrison offers nothing offensively though. He can't shoot, he can't penetrate well, and other than some easy passes he's not very good at initiating the offense.

His defense has been good but you can't have a PG who can't play offensively in the NBA. If he were a wing it would be different but he's not. He's a good defender but he's also playing Summer League guys. Who have been the guards he's gone against? Sacramento didn't have Fox, the Magic don't have any good guards, and I can't recall who Dallas had out there. Did Dennis Smith Jr play? Point is, Harrison has been playing against other G-League players. That isn't enough to give him a starting job, it's not enough to guarantee his spot on the team either, IMO.

I know people are down on Knight but lets see Harrison do something against real competition before we think about starting him. Knight isn't great, we all know that, but he does have real NBA talent and if Igor has gotten through to him, I think he'll surprise a lot of people here. We already have Okobo to develop at PG also. Asking a new coach to develop 2 PG's could be tricky, especially with other young talent that needs coaching also. Both Okobo and Harrison need to be taught so we need to pick one or the other when you factor in all of our other young talent like Ayton, Bridges, Bender, Chriss, Jackson, and even Booker and Warren to a certain degree.

That's why I prefer Canaan to Harrison as a backup or 3rd string PG. He's been around the league and is a better shooter than Shaq. He won't need nearly the attention or direction that Shaq or Okobo will require. Okobo will be here next year, so Harrison is more expendable.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Conner
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
36,490
Reaction score
34,466
Location
Charlotte, NC
I'd keep Harrison as the third point guard, and basically sit him on the bench until the Suns need a player who can play some good defense at the point.

Knight/Okobo/Harrison
Booker/Daniels/Reed
Jackson/Ariza/Bridges
Bender/Chriss/Dudley
Ayton/Chandler

That's a team with some defense, some three point shooting, but obviously lacks in the playmaking department. If I were to rank the team standings as far as who are the top players it would look like this:

1)Booker
2) Ayton
3) Bridges
4) Jackson.....after that point it's actually tough and you can begin to see that this is the real core of the team and it's entirely subjective after the top four players. This team so badly needs a PG, but I want an actual long term prospect instead of a short rental while the team isn't in it's window.
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
17,365
Reaction score
12,541
Location
Tempe, AZ
I'd keep Harrison as the third point guard, and basically sit him on the bench until the Suns need a player who can play some good defense at the point.

Knight/Okobo/Harrison
Booker/Daniels/Reed
Jackson/Ariza/Bridges
Bender/Chriss/Dudley
Ayton/Chandler

That's a team with some defense, some three point shooting, but obviously lacks in the playmaking department. If I were to rank the team standings as far as who are the top players it would look like this:

1)Booker
2) Ayton
3) Bridges
4) Jackson.....after that point it's actually tough and you can begin to see that this is the real core of the team and it's entirely subjective after the top four players. This team so badly needs a PG, but I want an actual long term prospect instead of a short rental while the team isn't in it's window.

No Warren, at all? Not in your roster breakdown or in the top players? He'd easily be #5 or #6, probably #5 over Ariza since he's younger and signed long term.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Conner
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
36,490
Reaction score
34,466
Location
Charlotte, NC
No Warren, at all? Not in your roster breakdown or in the top players? He'd easily be #5 or #6, probably #5 over Ariza since he's younger and signed long term.

LOL he's becoming that forgettable. He would be #5. And obviously that's the 3rd small forward on that list so he should be the first one moved. Ariza being on a one year deal and for a very specific purpose, I highly doubt the team would move him unless he's going to a serious contender at the trade deadline.
 

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
22,114
Reaction score
6,547
LOL he's becoming that forgettable. He would be #5. And obviously that's the 3rd small forward on that list so he should be the first one moved. Ariza being on a one year deal and for a very specific purpose, I highly doubt the team would move him unless he's going to a serious contender at the trade deadline.
Its time to move Warren. If we could get a pick for him, that would be fine. His numbers are going down this next year with Ariza, Mikal, and JJ on the roster. However, after this summer league, I am not as opposed to move JJ if it is for a piece that will really contribute, like a pg.
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
118,026
Reaction score
58,324
Yeah I don’t understand how anyone can hate on Cooley. He’s definitely shown he can belong in the NBA albeit in a small role. His hustle and energy alone at that size is quite impressive.

We may have to enter this contest. :D

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
553,659
Posts
5,410,548
Members
6,319
Latest member
route66
Top