thegrahamcrackr
Registered User
cards i didnt have the time to read your post in its entirety. But I think you were talking about KG who got a 5 year 176mil extension....or something like that.
Marbury Signs Extension
- Thread starter arthurracoon
- Start date
Yeah, you're right. The threshold is somewhere around $54m this year.
I guess 2006 is the year that choices will have to be made...
BTW, I agree with Chaplin. Suns' management does a better job that I would do, and a better job than most of the teams that are (currently) more successful; I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
SA made a $9m 'goodwill' offer to Stephen Jackson this summer; fortunately for them, he turned them down. They weren't as lucky when they made a similar offer to Jaren Jackson a few years back.
Houston's entire lineup beyond Yao Ming and Steve Francis is overpaid and under-talented. They'll be spending $50m on six players in 2005; the other four are Mo Taylor, Kelvin Cato, Cuttino Mobley and Moochie Norris.
The Bulls are looking at $50m+ in salaries for their top five players in 2005, and one of those players is Eddie Robinson.
The fact is, you'd have no problem finding questionable management decisions to second-guess, no matter what team you had decided to root for. The real difference between Phoenix and LA, SA and HOU is Shaq, Duncan, and Yao.
I guess 2006 is the year that choices will have to be made...
BTW, I agree with Chaplin. Suns' management does a better job that I would do, and a better job than most of the teams that are (currently) more successful; I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
SA made a $9m 'goodwill' offer to Stephen Jackson this summer; fortunately for them, he turned them down. They weren't as lucky when they made a similar offer to Jaren Jackson a few years back.
Houston's entire lineup beyond Yao Ming and Steve Francis is overpaid and under-talented. They'll be spending $50m on six players in 2005; the other four are Mo Taylor, Kelvin Cato, Cuttino Mobley and Moochie Norris.
The Bulls are looking at $50m+ in salaries for their top five players in 2005, and one of those players is Eddie Robinson.
The fact is, you'd have no problem finding questionable management decisions to second-guess, no matter what team you had decided to root for. The real difference between Phoenix and LA, SA and HOU is Shaq, Duncan, and Yao.
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
I love Marbury, but he is not worth $20M per year.
Nobody outside of Shaq, Duncan, KG, T-Mac and Kobe is.
Nobody outside of Shaq, Duncan, KG, T-Mac and Kobe is.
That $9 million to Stephen Jackson was for three seasons. It's still a little bit much for him, but it's hardly outrageous.
Joe Mama
OK, let me get this straight. We all complain when teams go out and get players to make their rosters better, and say the Suns aren't looking and spending enough.
It's been discussed that even though a player might not be worth the 'max' in some of our minds, as long as there is another team out there willing to pay it, the market has been set.
So, the Suns have one of the top 2 or 3 PG's on the planet. He seems to like the city, the coaching staff, the ownership and his surrounding cast. He publicly states that he wants to remain in Phoenix and has become a model citizen and player by seemingly becoming more mature both on and off the court.
The ownership of the Suns goes out and signs him to an extension before it has to, for about the same amount as other players Stephon's caliber are getting (AI) and some around here are saying it's a bad move?
Am I the only one who thinks it's a great move?? Goodwill and loyalty are pretty rare in professional sports nowadays, but this at least seems like some good vibes, at least from my naive viewpoint.
So we don't re-up Marbs. He plays next year and one of 2 things happen. They resign him at the max then (more than what he got now, right?) or he goes somewhere else, undoubtedly for the max. The Suns are left with Barbosa and whoever running the point. And that's supposed to be better?
This used to be my favorite site, the first page I checked every morning, without fail. I think it was better when the Suns stunk 2 years ago, at least then we knew they weren't good. Now they seem to be getting better, but the negativity is worse because they're spending money the wrong way? I don't get it.
To quote Rick Pitino, "All this negativity around here sucks."
This board is bringing me down.......
Brad
It's been discussed that even though a player might not be worth the 'max' in some of our minds, as long as there is another team out there willing to pay it, the market has been set.
So, the Suns have one of the top 2 or 3 PG's on the planet. He seems to like the city, the coaching staff, the ownership and his surrounding cast. He publicly states that he wants to remain in Phoenix and has become a model citizen and player by seemingly becoming more mature both on and off the court.
The ownership of the Suns goes out and signs him to an extension before it has to, for about the same amount as other players Stephon's caliber are getting (AI) and some around here are saying it's a bad move?
Am I the only one who thinks it's a great move?? Goodwill and loyalty are pretty rare in professional sports nowadays, but this at least seems like some good vibes, at least from my naive viewpoint.
So we don't re-up Marbs. He plays next year and one of 2 things happen. They resign him at the max then (more than what he got now, right?) or he goes somewhere else, undoubtedly for the max. The Suns are left with Barbosa and whoever running the point. And that's supposed to be better?
This used to be my favorite site, the first page I checked every morning, without fail. I think it was better when the Suns stunk 2 years ago, at least then we knew they weren't good. Now they seem to be getting better, but the negativity is worse because they're spending money the wrong way? I don't get it.
To quote Rick Pitino, "All this negativity around here sucks."
This board is bringing me down.......
Brad
Chaplin
Better off silent
I don't like the dollar amount too much, but I am very happy he's going to be around for another 6 years. Right now, Steph is probably my favorite player on the team (although Amare is a very close second and Shawn a very close third), so I love that we locked him up.
JCSunsfan
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The Suns are on their way to building a championship contender. Signing Marbury to this contract is part of the process.
Some here don't believe Marbury is a max player. I do. There are about 10-15 players that are max players and Steph is one of them. I know that some here believe there are only 5 or 6 but that is just not the reality of the market place.
The first thing to do in building a championship contender is putting together a core of young talent. We have Steph, Shawn, and Amare--a pg, a swing player, and a post player. Thats a decent group. What other pg would you have? What other SF do you want? What other pf do you want? They are all young, they are all very good, and they are on the rise. Their careers will time well together. Our core players are not going two different directions, career-wise.
Then you put together decent role players. We are doing that right now.
When the time to strike is right. We'll use bird rights and the MLE to sign another 1 or 2 very good players to put us over the top. We might even find a quality veteran at the end of his career that signs for the minimum just for the chance to play for it all. THIS IS NOT THE TIME FOR THAT.
The Colangelos are willing to lose money in order to win a championship. They've done it over and over again when they are close (witness the D-BAcks and Suns). But they cannot afford to lose money every season as they build.
We all agree that we are not contenders this year. So lets all be patient, enjoy our young players and trust they will take advantage of our window of opportunity when it comes.
Some here don't believe Marbury is a max player. I do. There are about 10-15 players that are max players and Steph is one of them. I know that some here believe there are only 5 or 6 but that is just not the reality of the market place.
The first thing to do in building a championship contender is putting together a core of young talent. We have Steph, Shawn, and Amare--a pg, a swing player, and a post player. Thats a decent group. What other pg would you have? What other SF do you want? What other pf do you want? They are all young, they are all very good, and they are on the rise. Their careers will time well together. Our core players are not going two different directions, career-wise.
Then you put together decent role players. We are doing that right now.
When the time to strike is right. We'll use bird rights and the MLE to sign another 1 or 2 very good players to put us over the top. We might even find a quality veteran at the end of his career that signs for the minimum just for the chance to play for it all. THIS IS NOT THE TIME FOR THAT.
The Colangelos are willing to lose money in order to win a championship. They've done it over and over again when they are close (witness the D-BAcks and Suns). But they cannot afford to lose money every season as they build.
We all agree that we are not contenders this year. So lets all be patient, enjoy our young players and trust they will take advantage of our window of opportunity when it comes.
Chaplin
Better off silent
I think the problem is that the negativity is coming from the opinions of some who think that because of all the max deals that we have or will have will dangerously hinder signing talent beyond those max deals.
They have a point, but I don't think it's as doom-and-gloom as they all think. And some of them think it's the worst thing that could happen.
I just refuse to believe, as some do, that we wrecklessly signed him to an extension. This isn't Penny Hardaway we're talking about here, this is a guy who is still very young and will play for the Suns for a very long time.
They have a point, but I don't think it's as doom-and-gloom as they all think. And some of them think it's the worst thing that could happen.
I just refuse to believe, as some do, that we wrecklessly signed him to an extension. This isn't Penny Hardaway we're talking about here, this is a guy who is still very young and will play for the Suns for a very long time.
elindholm
edited for content
Come on guys, at least get the main point. The main point is this:
The Suns gave more money than any other team would have been able to. It isn't a question of whether he is worth "the" max. There are several "maxes." The "max" for a free agent that you're bringing to your team for the first time is less than the max for your max-level player that you're extending.
I think some of you are really missing this point. To say, "Someone would have given Marbury the same money" is absolutely, 100% false. They couldn't have. It's not possible under the collective bargaining agreement. You can make that point with Marion, but not with Marbury.
The Suns could have given Marbury an amount that was more than any other team could have given him, and still significantly less than what they did give him. That would have put the team in much better shape.
I think it was a good idea to extend Marbury, and I don't have any problem with him being the highest-paid player on the team.
The Suns gave more money than any other team would have been able to. It isn't a question of whether he is worth "the" max. There are several "maxes." The "max" for a free agent that you're bringing to your team for the first time is less than the max for your max-level player that you're extending.
I think some of you are really missing this point. To say, "Someone would have given Marbury the same money" is absolutely, 100% false. They couldn't have. It's not possible under the collective bargaining agreement. You can make that point with Marion, but not with Marbury.
The Suns could have given Marbury an amount that was more than any other team could have given him, and still significantly less than what they did give him. That would have put the team in much better shape.
I think it was a good idea to extend Marbury, and I don't have any problem with him being the highest-paid player on the team.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
i understand your argument, and it's right. however you have to pay a premium to get someone to resign before their contract up. that may be the difference we're seeing.
OK, now I know where they got the 4yr, $76-80m parameters from:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1633005
Marbury's extension is identical to the extension Iverson received from Philadelphia. There's no way Marbury was going to sign (this year) for less than Iverson got.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1633005
Marbury's extension is identical to the extension Iverson received from Philadelphia. There's no way Marbury was going to sign (this year) for less than Iverson got.
Chaplin
Better off silent
I wonder if fans in Philly are complaining about Iverson's extension--Marbury is a better player than Iverson.
elindholm
edited for content
I wonder if fans in Philly are complaining about Iverson's extension--Marbury is a better player than Iverson.
Good question, and I agree that Marbury is better than Iverson, or at least not worse.
The difference in Philadelphia's case is that the Sixers aren't already committed to another max player through the end of the decade, as the Suns are with Marion. Philadelphia might get a player as good as Marion for that slot, they might get one who's worse, or they might get one who's better. Or they might decide to get two players for "half-max" contracts. But at least they have options.
Having said all that, I think Philadelphia is unlikely to seriously contend for the title anytime soon, unless they are willing to overspend the luxury tax threshold.
Good question, and I agree that Marbury is better than Iverson, or at least not worse.
The difference in Philadelphia's case is that the Sixers aren't already committed to another max player through the end of the decade, as the Suns are with Marion. Philadelphia might get a player as good as Marion for that slot, they might get one who's worse, or they might get one who's better. Or they might decide to get two players for "half-max" contracts. But at least they have options.
Having said all that, I think Philadelphia is unlikely to seriously contend for the title anytime soon, unless they are willing to overspend the luxury tax threshold.
Actually, I think that the Todd MacCulloch and Kenny Thomas contracts put together have about the same impact as Marion's contract, and the 76ers are only getting one player from those contracts.
I agree with you that it's irrelevant, though. Philly doesn't scare anybody.
I agree with you that it's irrelevant, though. Philly doesn't scare anybody.
thegrahamcrackr
Registered User
From DAs chat today
AJ (Los Angeles): Who are the 5 or 6 guys you think deserve to get the max contract?
David Aldridge: In no particular order:
Shaq/Garnett/Iverson/Kobe/JKidd/Duncan.
I dont understand iverson over marbury...but whatever.
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=4120
edit: WTF, or TMAC for that matter
AJ (Los Angeles): Who are the 5 or 6 guys you think deserve to get the max contract?
David Aldridge: In no particular order:
Shaq/Garnett/Iverson/Kobe/JKidd/Duncan.
I dont understand iverson over marbury...but whatever.
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=4120
edit: WTF, or TMAC for that matter
My opinion frequently wavers on the Allen Iverson-Stephon Marbury comparisons. If AI could stay healthy consistently I would probably say he is the slightest bit more valuable than Marbury. He's better defensively, and I think he commands more attention on offense.
Allen Iverson over Marbury does not surprise me. Allen Iverson over Tracy McGrady does. They both have a history of injuries, and I would take McGrady any day of the week over Iverson.
Joe Mama
scotsman13
Registered User
hey i would take tmac over kobe. well maybe not i can get out of kobes contract when he goes to jail for rape later this year 
I disagree on AI having better defense than Marbury. AI gets more steals because he's a ball hawk, but he is often out of defensive postion and gets burned way more than Marbury. Marbury's D was very underrated last year IMO. Frank went so far to say he was the best defender on the team. Marbury often was on the teams No. 1 option. One game I remember against the Cavs Marbury was on Davis who had avg around 30ppg for the month and Marbury held him to 15 and forced several TOs.
I'm pretty sure Aldrige picks Iverson over McGrady because Iverson has had more success in the playoffs. Granted, McGrady has been limited by his supporting cast, but his team plays in the East, and he has never gotten the Magic out of the first round of the playoffs. Iverson, with comparable talent on the Sixers, got his team to the Finals and was the only team to get a win from the Lakers in the 2001 playoffs, when the Kings, Spurs, and I think Blazers could not.
You can't really argue Shaq or Kobe, as signing both of them to max contracts would be a no-brainer for the Lakers whether you thought either of them were worth it or not, and Duncan obviously deserves the max as well. J. Kidd has gotten his team to the Finals the past 2 years, and Garnett... well I don't know, I think he might be overrated, but Aldrige probably doesn't know this.
thegrahamcrackr
Registered User
didnt he shut down AI both games last season?
On Dec. 13 last years their stat lines were:
Marbury : 28 points (12-21), 10 asst, 3 TO, 1 steal
AI: 22 points (7-24), 7 asst, 2 steal, 4 TO
7-24 is HORRIBLE
On Jan. 6 last year they both did bad.
Steph : 12 points (4-13), 10 asst, 1 st, 2 TO
AI: 12 points (4-17), 6 asst, 3 TO, 2 ST
Marbury had the better game easily both times, and Phx won both battles.
Personally I think that stephs strength makes him better. He is sturdier, and he is almost as fast as AI off the dribble. AI gets more attention because the team doesnt have any sort of balance in their offense. When a person jacks up 30 shots a game, of course he will get more attention.
On Dec. 13 last years their stat lines were:
Marbury : 28 points (12-21), 10 asst, 3 TO, 1 steal
AI: 22 points (7-24), 7 asst, 2 steal, 4 TO
7-24 is HORRIBLE
On Jan. 6 last year they both did bad.
Steph : 12 points (4-13), 10 asst, 1 st, 2 TO
AI: 12 points (4-17), 6 asst, 3 TO, 2 ST
Marbury had the better game easily both times, and Phx won both battles.
Personally I think that stephs strength makes him better. He is sturdier, and he is almost as fast as AI off the dribble. AI gets more attention because the team doesnt have any sort of balance in their offense. When a person jacks up 30 shots a game, of course he will get more attention.
I am ecstactic that the Suns will have the young core together for a long time. I am with NDSunsfan that I like the extension.
OK guys, I feel better now. We're all happy to be Suns fans. I completely agree that there are very few players, if any, that deserve the millions of dollars to play bball. But as long as a team is going to spend truckloads of money anyway, they might as well spend truckloads of money plus another trailer full of money to keep the good players they've already got if they want to.
Heck, it's easy for me to spend the C's money. So, I'm glad they gave him the max, glad they gave him more than other teams could have. It shows loyalty to Marbury. Goodwill to their own players might entice others to want to come to Phoenix to play. As if the facilities/weather weren't enough.
Suns Rock. This board rocks. Everyone else is diseased!!
I love you guys. To quote a great American "Brothers don't shake hands, brothers gotta HUG!"
Brad
Heck, it's easy for me to spend the C's money. So, I'm glad they gave him the max, glad they gave him more than other teams could have. It shows loyalty to Marbury. Goodwill to their own players might entice others to want to come to Phoenix to play. As if the facilities/weather weren't enough.
Suns Rock. This board rocks. Everyone else is diseased!!
I love you guys. To quote a great American "Brothers don't shake hands, brothers gotta HUG!"
Brad
PhiLLmattiC
Last of a Dying Breed
Penny should ask for an extension.
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