Marcel Shipp needs to start

[WizardOfAz]

I would agree with this post if it could be shown that Emmitt Smith is one of the primary reasons that we are 1-3 right now. Clearly there are issues with this offensive line opening holes that would be there no matter who the running back is at any given time.

Further, I think that the case could be made that things would be worse were it not for the play of Emmitt Smith at this point. In my opinion, I think Jeff Blake may have missed more time due to injury had Shipp been in the backfield trying picking up blitzes rather them Smith. I know you're not making the case for Shipp being better at pisking up the blitz than Smith.

Finally, who we did we not sign at the expense of signing Smith? Shipp got a raise/extension for his effort last year (what was the team's record last season when he started?).

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
I would agree with this post if it could be shown that Emmitt Smith is one of the primary reasons that we are 1-3 right now. Clearly there are issues with this offensive line opening holes that would be there no matter who the running back is at any given time.

Further, I think that the case could be made that things would be worse were it not for the play of Emmitt Smith at this point. In my opinion, I think Jeff Blake may have missed more time due to injury had Shipp been in the backfield trying picking up blitzes rather them Smith.

Finally, we did we not sign at the expense of signing Smith? Shipp got a raise/extension for his effort last year (what was the team's record last season when he started?).

You could argue that all you want. But there really is no way to prove wether or not Blake would be injured more. For all we know Shipp has vastly improved on his pass protection. That is the one area as a RB that is coachable!

Your right our record was bad last year as well but look at the production from a Shipp last year who played behind a makeshift(thats being nice) O-line almost all year. As compared to a Smith who has played behind 4/5 of a starting unit?

 

[D-Dogg]

Originally posted by Shane H
Really? Are you saying this as a Cardinal or over his career. Because if its as a Cardinal that statement makes no sense at all!

We don't know about as a cardinal, because this team hasn't had much of a chance to establish its running game. The Oline has played horribly, and we've been behind in most of our possessions. Emmitt's main talent is creating something out of nothing, and we've all seen it is still there; he is getting 3 yards out of plays that should get 1 or none. Over and over again. Shipp hasn't done any better when he's gotten carries--they both average the same ypc.

Until this Oline learns how to actually open holes, both rbs will have to work incredibly hard for their yards. I have more trust in Emmitt in that respect than Shipp, plus, 22 brings the added benefit of being an OL in the backfield and saving Blake's ass more often than not.

It's not like we have Priest Holmes rotting on the bench behind 22; not even close.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by D-Dogg


It's not like we have Priest Holmes rotting on the bench behind 22; not even close.

Really? How do you know?

Have you ever taken the time to sit down and really watch Shipp perform in both practice and on the field?

Did you watch Shipp almost amass 1000 yards last year while only starting 8 games? Did you see his 4.4 yard per carry average last year against 8 man fronts with a O-line that was only 1/5 or 2/5 intact?

Did you see his Receiving skills last year and his ability to break long runs and make yardage when hole werent there?

Your right he doesnt have the track record of a Priest Holmes. But much like Priest who by the way was riding the pine behind supposed better RBs for over 3 years till he got his shot. You wont know unless you give him the rock!

This team is done we arent making the playoffs! We dont need supposed leadership. We need solid production and the most skilled players on the field at all times!

Kind of silly to compare the YPC average when Shipp has had 15 carries in limited duty. as compared to Emmitt who has been the only one close to having enough carries to judge productivity!

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by Shane H
You could argue that all you want. But there really is no way to prove wether or not Blake would be injured more. For all we know Shipp has vastly improved on his pass protection. That is the one area as a RB that is coachable!

Your right our record was bad last year as well but look at the production from a Shipp last year who played behind a makeshift(thats being nice) O-line almost all year. As compared to a Smith who has played behind 4/5 of a starting unit?

First off, I guess I don't have as much confidence in McNown as you do because there is now way you can make the case that Shipp picks up the blitz anywhere near as well as Smith does.

As to your next point, I wish you would read my entire post above. The offensive line (even at 4/5) is the problem this year, not who is running behind them.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
First off, I guess I don't have as much confidence in McNown as you do because there is now way you can make the case that Shipp picks up the blitz anywhere near as well as Smith does.

As to your next point, I wish you would read my entire post above. The offensive line (even at 4/5) is the problem this year, not who is running behind them.

I never said that Shipp is better at blitz pick-up. I said basically we dont know if he is even adequate because hes not back there. But more importantly the most important job of a RB is to run and catch not block! I will accept some pass protection liability for the more skilled runner!

I read your whole post!

The O-line was supposedly a problem last year too. When Shipp played behind maybe 2 starters for most of the last half of the year yet still managed overall a 4.4 yd avg. with teams stacking the box.

 

[D-Dogg]

Originally posted by Shane H
Really? How do you know?

Have you ever taken the time to sit down and really watch Shipp perform in both practice and on the field?

Did you watch Shipp almost amass 1000 yards last year while only starting 8 games? Did you see his 4.4 yard per carry average last year against 8 man fronts with a O-line that was only 1/5 or 2/5 intact?

Yes, I did. Honestly, I was never impressed with his running style. He also got mop up duty last year as well in addition to his 6 starts. 188 carries. And to be completely truthful, I'd take that makeshift OL from last season over the relatively healthy one from this year. For whatever reason, they played better than these guys have so far.

I'm just not that big a fan of Shipp; I think he's a bit overrated. He isn't LeShon Johnson II, but he isn't going to be anything spectacular in this league. I think he is a solid performer who could put up good numbers. I actually think he's more useful catching passes out of the backfield (where we should use some two-back sets with both Emmitt and Shipp on the field) as he has sure hands. Maybe its just me, but I never bought into the Shipp hype...

Kind of silly to compare the YPC average when Shipp has had 15 carries in limited duty. as compared to Emmitt who has been the only one close to having enough carries to judge productivity! [/B]

Kind of silly to do any of this speculating when NEITHER back has been able to get off track; we ran 38 plays yesterday..something like that. The coaching staff has said they want to run 30-40 RUNNING PLAYS. This argument is SOOOO at the bottom of the pile of arguments to be having.

Listen, I hope and pray that Shipp comes in and performs like Priest did after leaving B'More. But he's not gonna get the job by coming in and dropping 3.3 YPC. If he came in and was breaking 20 yard runs, or 10 yarders even...then Emmitt's job would be in jeopardy, and I'd be right there to agree. But the fact is, neither back is getting many touches, and neither back has shown anything special. Emmitt at least brings leadership, fire, blocking and experience to the position, which Shipp cannot bring.

I will change my tune if the Oline begins opening holes for either of these guys, and Shipp churns out a 4.5 ypc, even in limited duty. However, with the Oline doing its job, I'd assume that Emmitt's production would go up as well. (Also, usually limited duty guys, change of pace guys, usually get INFLATED running stats, not deflated ones. It's part of the spoils of being the change of pace back.)

How about we worry about which quality running back we start IF and when we work out the corner situation, the o-line's poor blocking, the turnover issue, and the d-line not being able to pressure a jv quarterback.