Marcus should have started over PJ Tucker

[JCSunsfan]

According to Marcus (not according to me! please don't rip me for this thread title). http://www.azcentral.com/story/sport...cker/72795886/

"Yes, it is. In Phoenix, I thought I should have started at the three. The guy that’s there now (P.J. Tucker) might have been a better defender, but as an all-around three, I thought I was the best we had. And I thought a lot of players thought that, too."

Must have been some locker room last year.

Marcus thinking he should start over PJ.
IT thinking he should start over Goran or Bledsoe.
Goran frustrated at Bledsoe and IT handling the ball.
PJ suspended.
Archie frustrated that he was not getting more minutes.
Miles Plumlee complaining about being demoted to Len's backup and then asking for a trade.

 

[Mainstreet]

I had to chuckle upon reading this.

So Marcus Morris value in two trades (from Houston to Phoenix) and (from Phoenix to the Pistons)... drum roll... a second round pick on both occasions.

That should say something about his being a starting SF although that is not to say he didn't get his chances.

Yes, last season had to be mess in terms of chemistry.

 

[Phrazbit]

I had to chuckle upon reading this.

So Marcus Morris value in two trades (from Houston to Phoenix) and (from Phoenix to the Pistons)... drum roll... a second round pick on both occasions.

That should say something about his being a starting SF although that is not to say he didn't get his chances.

Yes, last season had to be mess in terms of chemistry.

Exactly, a dude who has twice been traded as a pure salary dump is thumping his chest about being better than people. What a clown.

 

[JustWinBaby]

Exactly, a dude who has twice been traded as a pure salary dump is thumping his chest about being better than people. What a clown.

Marcus is saying he was a better choice than PJ Tucker not an NBA All Star.

While I am not a fan at all of Marcus Morris, I do not think that PJ Tucker is clearly a better player. I really do not like watching PJ Tucker play and hoped he would be gone prior to the start of the season.

Marcus just beats people up and probably has a chauffeur driving his Rolls Royce for him. PJ drives himself home after he gets real drunk.

Quite honestly it appears that a lot of our problems last year were because our Coach lost control of the clubhouse.

 

[elindholm]

Marcus just beats people up and probably has a chauffeur driving his Rolls Royce for him. PJ drives himself home after he gets real drunk.

LOL, well since you put it that way...

 

[JCSunsfan]

Marcus is saying he was a better choice than PJ Tucker not an NBA All Star.

While I am not a fan at all of Marcus Morris, I do not think that PJ Tucker is clearly a better player. I really do not like watching PJ Tucker play and hoped he would be gone prior to the start of the season.

Marcus just beats people up and probably has a chauffeur driving his Rolls Royce for him. PJ drives himself home after he gets real drunk.

Quite honestly it appears that a lot of our problems last year were because our Coach lost control of the clubhouse.

He's a coach, not a baby sitter. How in the world is this the coach's fault? I could see blaming this on McD for the roster make up, but not the coach.

 

[Phrazbit]

Marcus is saying he was a better choice than PJ Tucker not an NBA All Star.

IMO its all the more reason he needs to shut his hole. PJ Tucker is a decent player, but nothing to write home about and I think he was clearly a bigger asset to the team than Morris. Who has generally been a lousy player for his entire career.

As for Tucker the person, I agree, not a guy who I'm excited to cheer for. Guy gets blasted and drives and (this is probably prejudice knowing his criminal record) seems hung over during half our games. While Marcus seems like a total **** both on and off the court.

But I can't peg that stuff on the coach. Hard to blame any coach for what his guys do in their off time.

 

[Bert]

Marcus is so not over us. I love it.

He's like the scary ex girlfriend that wont stop texting and calling.

You've got a new team now bro, let it go.

 

[FArting]

Way to throw your ex teammate under the bus.

I hope you school him PJ.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Reminds me of a comment Danny Ainge made to an assistant after listening to Luc Longley do an interview. Longley had just been acquired by the Suns.

"Oh no, we are in trouble. This guy actually thinks he is good."

 

[Hoop Head]

I think Marcus was/is a better player than PJ is all around however he'd disappear for multiple games at a time and often during stretches in games. His defense was horrible whenever his shot was going in, he thought since he was doing good offensively he could ease up on Defense. Also Marcus' production as a starter vs being a bench player didn't change much. While the numbers PJ puts up starting vs coming off the bench are much better when he starts. Tucker is all hustle, all the time also. Long term, neither will take your team very far but short term I'd rather have PJ because at least he's not a headcase like Marcus is. Also Tucker doesn't have a brother here to divide the locker room, didn't get nearly as many technicals and accepted his role wherever he was needed.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think Marcus was/is a better player than PJ is all around however he'd disappear for multiple games at a time and often during stretches in games. His defense was horrible whenever his shot was going in, he thought since he was doing good offensively he could ease up on Defense. Also Marcus' production as a starter vs being a bench player didn't change much. While the numbers PJ puts up starting vs coming off the bench are much better when he starts. Tucker is all hustle, all the time also. Long term, neither will take your team very far but short term I'd rather have PJ because at least he's not a headcase like Marcus is. Also Tucker doesn't have a brother here to divide the locker room, didn't get nearly as many technicals and accepted his role wherever he was needed.

I think you did a nice job of summarizing the issues. Marcus may well thank the Suns for trading him to the Pistons. If he is focused, I think he can further improve his game. I believe the twins became a distraction for each other with the Suns.

 

[BC867]

I think you did a nice job of summarizing the issues. Marcus may well thank the Suns for trading him to the Pistons. If he is focused, I think he can further improve his game. I believe the twins became a distraction for each other with the Suns.

And they still are. As soon as we can dump Markieff, we can stop caring about Marcus' influence or comments. Or Markeiff's reactions.

Until then, Marcus is still a factor, although indirectly. At this point, it has nothing to do with Markieff's skills, or lack of skills, as a Power Forward.

 

[JustWinBaby]

He's a coach, not a baby sitter. How in the world is this the coach's fault? I could see blaming this on McD for the roster make up, but not the coach.

It is just amazing how so many of you suggest that Hornacek has no skin in the game for our horrible performance last season and put all the blame on McDonough.

It was generally believed that the roster Hornacek started with last season had more talent than the one that won 48 games and we were expected to win more than 50 games last year while making the playoffs. Horny lost the clubhouse early on and McDonough blew it up partially at the deadline and finished the job this off season. Horny did a lousy job, period. Why he is still employed is probably because Sarver doesn't want to pay his salary and a new coaches salary at the same time.

You are the same folks that supported Steve Kerr and were happy to see MDA leave town, while winning 58 games per year and managing a very cohesive clubhouse. We didn't have Drunken Drivers, too many technical, players yelling at coaches and fans, players playing at half speed on most nights, etc, etc.

Players wanted to play for Mike and fans wanted to watch. Kerr was a horrific GM. The rosters overall talent never got any better while Kerr was the GM. Yet he was a genius and Mike was the scapegoat.

Why didn't anyone blame Steve for not getting a legit back up point guard for Nash and a legit Athletic big man to play defense alongside Amare. That would have solved most of our problems, in the day. Steve never got any blame all the blame fell on Mike.

And yes sometimes the coach needs to be a baby sitter. That is part of the job.

Hornacek is on the last year of his contract and McDonough has reloaded the roster with some real nice pieces. At this point most expert do not believe we will be any good while not making the playoffs.

Most all of those players that Hornacek could not coach are all on other rosters and I expect they will all have productive seasons for their new teams. What happened to them in Phoenix? I say bad coaching.

All those players that MDA did not play never played anywhere else either.

 

[Phrazbit]

It is just amazing how so many of you suggest that Hornacek has no skin in the game for our horrible performance last season and put all the blame on McDonough.

It was generally believed that the roster Hornacek started with last season had more talent than the one that won 48 games and we were expected to win more than 50 games last year while making the playoffs. Horny lost the clubhouse early on and McDonough blew it up partially at the deadline and finished the job this off season. Horny did a lousy job, period. Why he is still employed is probably because Sarver doesn't want to pay his salary and a new coaches salary at the same time.

You are the same folks that supported Steve Kerr and were happy to see MDA leave town, while winning 58 games per year and managing a very cohesive clubhouse. We didn't have Drunken Drivers, too many technical, players yelling at coaches and fans, players playing at half speed on most nights, etc, etc.

Players wanted to play for Mike and fans wanted to watch. Kerr was a horrific GM. The rosters overall talent never got any better while Kerr was the GM. Yet he was a genius and Mike was the scapegoat.

Why didn't anyone blame Steve for not getting a legit back up point guard for Nash and a legit Athletic big man to play defense alongside Amare. That would have solved most of our problems, in the day. Steve never got any blame all the blame fell on Mike.

And yes sometimes the coach needs to be a baby sitter. That is part of the job.

Hornacek is on the last year of his contract and McDonough has reloaded the roster with some real nice pieces. At this point most expert do not believe we will be any good while not making the playoffs.

Most all of those players that Hornacek could not coach are all on other rosters and I expect they will all have productive seasons for their new teams. What happened to them in Phoenix? I say bad coaching.

All those players that MDA did not play never played anywhere else either.

People want to gripe about the product on the floor, fine, I think Horny has done better than average with the parts at hand, and the parts at hand are what they are largely because McD inherited a complete train wreck of a roster that no one thought would be remotely competitive for several years. However, I think people were more countering the what you said about players drunken driving and beating pounding civilians in their free team, insinuating that was the coaches fault, which IMO is nonsense. There are legit arguments to be made against the staff and FO the last few years, but the players being buffoons is not one of them. And its something that virtually every franchise has to deal with on occasion, including the Suns of old.

Also, I know you get really worked up in your defenses of MDA, but I don't think you'd see a ton of people claiming that Kerr is blameless, furthermore, if you're mad about the rosters D'Antoni had then you can largely blame D'Antoni the GM for not helping D'Anotni the coach. He had picked many a player and then promptly let them rot on the bench.

One more thing, since we're so far off topic:

All those players that MDA did not play never played anywhere else either

You know how else never did anything elsewhere? Mike D'Antoni.

 

[elindholm]

It was generally believed that the roster Hornacek started with last season had more talent than the one that won 48 games and we were expected to win more than 50 games last year while making the playoffs.

By whom?

Horny did a lousy job, period. Why he is still employed is probably because Sarver doesn't want to pay his salary and a new coaches salary at the same time.

I wouldn't go that far, but I agree that Hornacek let things get too far out of control last season. On the other hand, managing a band of narcissistic mediocre talents has to be one of the hardest things to do in the NBA. It's one thing if you have Michael Jordan on your team and decide that you have to let him be a brat; rather another when your leaders are Markieff Morris and Eric Bledsoe.

Players wanted to play for Mike and fans wanted to watch. Kerr was a horrific GM. The rosters overall talent never got any better while Kerr was the GM. Yet he was a genius and Mike was the scapegoat.

D'Antoni was the scapegoat because most of the world believed that his roster underachieved. Of course they were fun to watch, but they also could have been champions. When you have a championship roster, you have to cash it in.

Why didn't anyone blame Steve for not getting a legit back up point guard for Nash and a legit Athletic big man to play defense alongside Amare.

Kurt Thomas, although not athletic, was an excellent backup center for that team; D'Antoni refused to use him in ways that would have really mattered. Steven Hunter was obviously limited as a player, but D'Antoni could have gotten more out of him than he did. As for Nash not having a backup, there was no solution to that problem, because D'Antoni's "system" relied so heavily on Nash's unique skill set.

That would have solved most of our problems, in the day. Steve never got any blame all the blame fell on Mike.

I don't think that's quite true. Kerr got raked over the coals for the horrible trade that sent Thomas packing, and rightly so. Now that Kerr is the mastermind behind the Warriors, people want to revise history and say that Kerr's hand was forced by the impending sale of the team. Well, maybe, but even when your hand is forced, you have to come up with a better deal than that.

Most all of those players that Hornacek could not coach are all on other rosters and I expect they will all have productive seasons for their new teams.

Really? Can we hold you to that?

 

[Errntknght]

As for Nash not having a backup, there was no solution to that problem, because D'Antoni's "system" relied so heavily on Nash's unique skill set.

There was probably not a solution with D'Antoni in charge, but Gentry tripped over a solution to the problem - the trouble was that he didn't realize it. The solution was to platoon the players so that the whole second unit was not adapted to playing with Nash. Dragic was the key player in the setup Gentry came up with - if you recall he was as much of a disaster being Nash's backup as the other half dozen who'd been in that slot but as the leader of the second unit he was the Dragic who surfaced again later and who we all loved. Note that Gentry did not install a different system for the second unit but it did evolve a style that was different, and geared towards Goran's skills, of course.
The next season Gentry announced that he was not going to platoon again, which meant that Goran was Nash's backup again, and as you all know he was even more of a disaster the second time around - and was traded to Houston ere long.

The intervening summer was when we traded Barbs for Hedo and Stoudemire fled to NY to be replaced by what's-his-name... you know, the worst defender ever to play in the NBA. We were too cheap to retain Amundson so we dumped a load of money on Childress in a major overpay. Anyway the roster was such a mess, sticking with the platoon or not was quite insignificant. It was the summer that proved that even a poor GM is better than none at all.

 

[sunsfan88]

He probably should have. PJ Tucker's been awful and arguably the worst starter in the conference.

He's not even that great of a defender anymore either.

 

[leclerc]

Change out of PJ and into TJ!

 

[Phrazbit]

Most all of those players that Hornacek could not coach are all on other rosters and I expect they will all have productive seasons for their new teams. What happened to them in Phoenix? I say bad coaching.

I thought I'd revisit this line...

Lets review how former Suns are 'excelling' elsewhere.

Marcus Morris; the subject of the thread. Overall scoring is up, but only because he is a malignant ball hog. Chucking up bricks left and right. He is what he is, a sub par reserve. Played better under Hornacek than anywhere in his career.

Gerald Green. Flew mentally off the rails but was playing like ass so far anyway. A career journyman, dumped by several franchises. A chucker, nothing more. Played WAY better under Hornacek than he has anywhere else.

Miles Plumlee. That this guy looked like a decent starting center for a time in Phoenix is a minor miracle.

Isiah Thomas. Basically putting up the same stats he did here, only with much higher usage (and lower percentages).

Goran Dragic. I don't expect Goran to be quite as terrible for the remainder of the year as he is right now... but he is no star. Hornacek allowed him to play way over his head.

I'd go into detail about Channing Frye but it just seems like piling on.

I'm not wild about Hornacek's rotations, but he certainly seems to know how to let players play to their strengths. Any idea that he stifles guys is an affront to virtually every shred of evidence available.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Funny how at one moment everyone seems like they leave here and succeed, and the next they are failing.

I guess it means that teams need to have that one strength that almost no message board poster has -- patience.

 

[sunsfan88]

https://twitter.com/Chapman1051/status/680884347264757761

It looks like he isn't the headache that he was here either.

 

[JustWinBaby]

I thought I'd revisit this line...

Lets review how former Suns are 'excelling' elsewhere.

Marcus Morris; the subject of the thread. Overall scoring is up, but only because he is a malignant ball hog. Chucking up bricks left and right. He is what he is, a sub par reserve. Played better under Hornacek than anywhere in his career.

Gerald Green. Flew mentally off the rails but was playing like ass so far anyway. A career journyman, dumped by several franchises. A chucker, nothing more. Played WAY better under Hornacek than he has anywhere else.

Miles Plumlee. That this guy looked like a decent starting center for a time in Phoenix is a minor miracle.

Isiah Thomas. Basically putting up the same stats he did here, only with much higher usage (and lower percentages).

Goran Dragic. I don't expect Goran to be quite as terrible for the remainder of the year as he is right now... but he is no star. Hornacek allowed him to play way over his head.

I'd go into detail about Channing Frye but it just seems like piling on.

I'm not wild about Hornacek's rotations, but he certainly seems to know how to let players play to their strengths. Any idea that he stifles guys is an affront to virtually every shred of evidence available.

Maybe now is a better time to revisit this subject.

Everyone of the players mentioned above is on a TEAM that is having a far better season than the TEAM that Hornacek has coached thus far with the exception of Plumlee. I can see all of them as better solution for our current team other than Plumlee. Unfortunately Hornacek could not work them into the mix while losing control of the locker room, so they got whacked.

I hated Hornacek's rotations early on in the 14/15 season and still do not buy into his choices. Due to the players we lost he has far fewer good choices. It should be easier but he still appears to have no clue.

Most folks, including respected writers from the press, have now seen the light.

The assistant coaches have been whacked and I expect that he will not make to the end of the season.

The evidence is in and has been evaluated. He has not developed any player into a better player during his duration as head coach of your Phoenix Suns.

If you disagree, fine. Produce some names and stats of a player on the current roster that has become a better player since he became our coach.

IMO, that is the reason why our win/loss record has gotten worse and worse since he became head coach. If he is to receive credit for the 48 win season he deserves to receive blame for the current state of this franchise.

 

[Phrazbit]

Maybe now is a better time to revisit this subject.

Everyone of the players mentioned above is on a TEAM that is having a far better season than the TEAM that Hornacek has coached thus far with the exception of Plumlee. I can see all of them as better solution for our current team other than Plumlee. Unfortunately Hornacek could not work them into the mix while losing control of the locker room, so they got whacked.

I hated Hornacek's rotations early on in the 14/15 season and still do not buy into his choices. Due to the players we lost he has far fewer good choices. It should be easier but he still appears to have no clue.

Most folks, including respected writers from the press, have now seen the light.

The assistant coaches have been whacked and I expect that he will not make to the end of the season.

The evidence is in and has been evaluated. He has not developed any player into a better player during his duration as head coach of your Phoenix Suns.

If you disagree, fine. Produce some names and stats of a player on the current roster that has become a better player since he became our coach.

IMO, that is the reason why our win/loss record has gotten worse and worse since he became head coach. If he is to receive credit for the 48 win season he deserves to receive blame for the current state of this franchise.

lol, what a bunch of nonsense. You're really jumping through hoops to fit a narrative.

Are those guys playing well or not? No, they are not. Virtually all of the guys we've shipped out the last few years are playing like utter horse crap... BUT happen to be surrounded by much better players who make their teams more competitive.

Am I on board with canning Hornacek? Absolutely, because his rotations are nonsensical and he has lost the trust of his players. But the old argument that his coaching held those guys back and they would flourish elsewhere has been completely rebuked.

Dragic is a mediocre system player, Green is a nutjob journeyman, Plumlee is a scrub, Frye does one thing well and only occasionally, Marcus Morris is putting up lesser statistical rates, only he is playing way more minutes.

Hornacek has his faults but each of those guys should look at their bank accounts and thank the day they ran into him, because he got significantly more out of them than any coach they've played under.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

I don't know, my basketball playing experience is pretty limited, pick up ball at assorted parks, YMCA, etc. But it was always pretty common for players to think that they are better than someone else. You kinda have to that attitude to be able to step out on the Court and play with any confidence. Does anyone dispute this?

So to me, none of this Marcus thought he was better than PJ, IT thought he was better than Dragic, BKnight thinks he's a better pure PG than anyone else, bla bla bla, is really very surprising or noteworthy.

The egos and confidence that these guy must have just to step out there on an NBA Court must be ridiculous. So I am pretty sure this kind of talk happens all the time, far more often than it trickles into the "news".