Marion at the 4, Zarko at the 2?

[JCSunsfan]

According to the position by position scouting report on the Suns web site, this will happen at least some this year.

http://www.nba.com/suns/news/small_forward_0304.html

Shawn at the PF

“Shawn has taken it upon himself (to bulk up) because he felt he needed some strength so that he can get on that box and not get pushed from his position,” said Head Coach Frank Johnson. “It’s very encouraging. Shawn has never really been a box-out guy. He’s been a guy that just went in and got rebounds. There are times when we go to our skills lineup and he’ll be guarding (power forwards), so this will help.”


Zarko as a SG

"He seemed to fit in well at the Suns’ mini-camp and had some impressive outings in summer league play at the Rocky Mountain ***** in Utah last July. While most of his action should be backing up Marion in the early going, the 22-year-old has the size and skills to play either forward position, and could see some minutes at shooting guard, as well as match up against some of the league’s smaller centers. "




To tell you the truth, Zarko doing spot duty as a 2 does not bother me nearly as much as Marion at the 4. We've got Jake, jake, Scott Will, Amare, Googs, Bo, and Zarko to play the 4 and 5. Why in the world do we need to run Shawn as a 4?

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by JCSunsfan

To tell you the truth, Zarko doing spot duty as a 2 does not bother me nearly as much as Marion at the 4. We've got Jake, jake, Scott Will, Amare, Googs, Bo, and Zarko to play the 4 and 5. Why in the world do we need to run Shawn as a 4?

After the last few years, why is this still surprising? Shawn has always played a lot of power forward--with FJ as our coach and the minimal amount of talent we have at the 5 position, it's a foregone conclusion. If this "skills" lineup is in the game, none of our centers will be in the game--the only guy that could play the 5 in a skills lineup is Amare. Zarko may be tall, but I'd rather have Amare at the 5 than Zarko--Zarko is tall but he is extremely skinny--if Shawn has really bulked up, then that makes him even more of an attractive option in a group of options where there isn't any.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

The only guy that can keep Marion from playing the 4 is Googs. If Googs can find his game again, then that would be huge.

 

[elindholm]

The only guy that can keep Marion from playing the 4 is Googs.

Or Tsakalidis. The Suns' problem isn't a shortage of competent power forwards -- Stoudemire and Outlaw should be fine -- but a shortage of competent centers. That forces Stoudemire out of position at center, and it's the chain reaction that ends up putting a wing player at PF.

 

[slinslin]

The Suns played their best in the playoffs when they went small and had Marion on Robinson or Rose for periods of time.

Their are also bigger and stronger SFs who took advantage of Marion in the post like Corliss Williamson and Rashard Lewis for example.

 

[SirStefan32]

I really don't understand why force people to play out of position. Marion is, arguably, the best SF in the league. Why shift him to a 4?

Zarko on 2? Gotta be kidding me. He can't guard a chair on the perimeter, let alone quick shooting guards. Also he doesn't have the range to play 2. He can hit 15 footers all night, but once he goes further, he is a terrible shooter.

Stefan

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
I really don't understand why force people to play out of position. Marion is, arguably, the best SF in the league. Why shift him to a 4?

Zarko on 2? Gotta be kidding me. He can't guard a chair on the perimeter, let alone quick shooting guards. Also he doesn't have the range to play 2. He can hit 15 footers all night, but once he goes further, he is a terrible shooter.

Stefan

Hilarious! This has happened for years with the Suns. Years! Ever since the days of Mark West and even before that. People like to believe that this is all an aspect of FJ's mind (Errntknight anyone?), but the truth is, we have had forwards playing out of position for more than 15 years. Like Eric says, it's because of our center rotation that we need to do it. And although I have some hope that our 5 spot will be better this year, it's unrealistic to think that Shawn will not play any 4.

 

[SirStefan32]

Chap, did I ever say that this has NOT happened for years?

I just said it sucks!

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by slinslin
The Suns played their best in the playoffs when they went small and had Marion on Robinson or Rose for periods of time.

Their are also bigger and stronger SFs who took advantage of Marion in the post like Corliss Williamson and Rashard Lewis for example.

Or like even Malik Rose.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
If Googs can find his game again, then that would be huge.

He won't find it anymore.

 

[SirStefan32]

The problem with Googs is that he can't stay healthy. His game is hitting wide open 15-18 foot jumpers. He does that really well, but he just can't stay healthy. I think Zarko will be able to do what Googs is supposed to do.

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by hcsilla
Or like even Malik Rose.

Malik Rose isn't a SF.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by slinslin
Malik Rose isn't a SF.

Traditionally, he is.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by slinslin
Malik Rose isn't a SF.

Actually he is a typical big, agressive post-up SF.
If you consider Williamson as a SF I don't see how Rose isn't a SF.

 

[slinslin]

Because Williamson played SF for Detroit when Robinson/Wallace/Okur were the PF/C.

Malik Rose always subs in for either Duncan or Robinson. I never saw him on the floor together with Duncan and another big man.

I don't know what you mean by "traditionally he is a SF". He has always been a defensive rebounder. That's what earned him his contract.
He doens't play on the perimeter.
Williamson has always been a scorer SF.

If Malik Rose is traditionally a SF than Barkley was traditionally a Guard and Kevin Garnett and Dirk Nowitzki are centers.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I was under the impression that Rose was a pf period.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Zarko on 2? Gotta be kidding me. He can't guard a chair on the perimeter, let alone quick shooting guards. Also he doesn't have the range to play 2. He can hit 15 footers all night, but once he goes further, he is a terrible shooter.

Stefan [/B]

I certainly haven't seen Zarko play enough to make this kind of judgement on his defensive abilities.

How much have you actually been able to watch him? You do have a little more exposure to the Euro's than the rest of us, don't you?

 

[elindholm]

I don't mean to kill the discussion, but all of this talk about Cabarkapa playing shooting guard is meaningless.

If he's on the floor with Stoudemire, Marion, Johnson, and Marbury, what sense does it make to say that Marion is "really" the PF and Johnson "really" the SF? None. Players just play. The traditional position designations don't mean that much anymore, especially when you are talking about a seven-footer who slashes from the perimeter.

Now, if you mean that Cabarkapa might try to guard the other team's SG in a conventional lineup, that would mean something. And it would be wrong. That will never happen, except maybe in a very unusual situation where the other team's SG is someone immobile like Glen Rice.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by slinslin
Because Williamson played SF for Detroit when Robinson/Wallace/Okur were the PF/C.

Williamson played PF as well while Robinson played also SF.

He doens't play on the perimeter.

Rose doesn't either.

Williamson has always been a scorer SF.

Williamson has always been a combo F who is a true post scorer.
Williamson is big enough to post up the opposite SF's and quick enough to beat the (slower) opposite PF's.
That's why he is a SF/PF.

 

[JCSunsfan]

In Frank's "skillball" line up, I just can't see why you couldn't go with a front line of Amare, Zarko, and Shawn. In that scenario, it seems that Shawn's quickness makes him better at guarding an opposing 3.

If you determine position by who you guard, then Zarko (or Bo or Googs) should guard the 4, Amare the 5, and let Marion stay at home on the 3.

Oh well, I'm going overboard with this right now. There is no use discussing it until it actually happens--if it actually happens.

BTW, have we seen the end of the MO?

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by elindholm
That will never happen, except maybe in a very unusual situation where the other team's SG is someone immobile like Glen Rice.

That's true and I'm just wondering how many "immobile" swingmen are in NBA right now.

Rice, Piatkowski, maybe Walt Williams, McCarty or even Szczerbiak?
Others?

 

[elindholm]

Rice, Piatkowski, maybe Walt Williams, McCarty or even Szczerbiak?

I don't even think there are that many. I agree with Rice and Piatkowski. Will Williams still be in the league? Regarding McCarty, I don't think he sees much time at guard, unless you declare Pierce the SF whenever he's on the floor. (What BOS lineup has three larger players than McCarty?) Finally, I would guess that Cabarkapa would be unable to guard Szczerbiak, although that it speculation.

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by JCSunsfan
I certainly haven't seen Zarko play enough to make this kind of judgement on his defensive abilities.

How much have you actually been able to watch him? You do have a little more exposure to the Euro's than the rest of us, don't you?

I've seen Zarko play quite a bit. I get tapes from Europe, watch them, pass them along to the next person in line waiting to see them. I've seen seven tapes from last year.

Zarko is a very good player. He can knock down 15 footer all day long. He can handle the basketball, loves to run, and can even lead the fastbreak.

Not only can he score from 15- 18" but he also has a very nice inside game, though he doesn't like to post up. He likes to get the ball on the perimetar, and see what the D is giving him. If they let him shoot, he will knock down jumpers untill they start guarding him, and then he puts the ball on the floor and takes it inside.

Defensively, he is no different than Dirk Nowitzki. Smaller guys drive around him and the bigger guys overpower him. Having said that, he is a decent help defender. He is very effective in a zone.

But as Eric pointed out, he will not be guarding shooting guards anyways so this is kind of pointless.

Having said all this, on one hand he is a defensive liability, but it is also very difficult to guard him. He is a very good ball- handler and drives like a guard, so these big PF's in the west will have a hard time stopping him from driving.

We'll see what happens.

Stefan

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by elindholm
Finally, I would guess that Cabarkapa would be unable to guard Szczerbiak, although that it speculation.

.. but Szczerbiak couldn't guard Zarko in the low post either. It's the game of give and take- who can take advantage of a mismatch.

 

[Joe Mama]

I think somebody else in this thread already mentioned this, but I don't understand why some people are getting their panties in a bunch about Shawn Marion playing power forward. The Phoenix Suns were at their best in the playoffs last season when they went with that smaller lineup. That was against possibly The strongest frontcourt team in the NBA.

Joe Mama