Mark Grace gets jail time in DUI case

[BC867]

I don't think anybody in Chicago would care if they changed their name to the Chicago Budweisers.

Hell, the St. Louis Cardinals were owned by Anheuser-Busch (And how's your bush? ) from 1953-96. They even kept the name for their new stadium in 2006.

As with everything else in life, people who go to extremes, whether by choice or by addiction, should address the problem head on, especially if they are public figures.

It will be interesting to see if Grace ever gets to that point.

 

[Mulli]

...or perhaps hired him back with the proviso that he regularly attend AA and that he would remain 100% alcohol free while employed. The man is, in fact an alcoholic/drug addict.

Statistically, he is likely to fail, sadly. But separating him (or anyone else) from employment only increases the odds of failure. Depending on individual circumstances, of course, employers do everyone a favor by trying to work with employees with drug/alcohol problems, rather than tossing them aside like a used condom. Fortunately, this scenario is becoming more commonplace through various employee assistance programs.

Just my "based upon experience" opinion.

Interesting that having a job didn't help him before. Perhaps failure would increase the odds that he sees the need to change.

And I am thinking that we may never hear about whether or not he joins AA. Which would be a good thing.

 

[BC867]

Interesting that having a job didn't help him before. Perhaps failure would increase the odds that he sees the need to change.

'Interesting point. Did it really teach him a lesson when the D'backs arranged a job after he was sentenced so he would be confined only at night? It's more of the "celebrities can get away with (almost) anything" syndrome.

If he drinks himself to an early grave or gets behind the wheel while drunk again, the D'backs front office will have themselves to blame.

 

[Mulli]

'Interesting point. Did it really teach him a lesson when the D'backs arranged a job after he was sentenced so he would be confined only at night? It's more of the "celebrities can get away with (almost) anything" syndrome.

If he drinks himself to an early grave or gets behind the wheel while drunk again, the D'backs front office will have themselves to blame.

I wouldn't go that far. I see what you are saying but that would be on Grace.

 

[UncleChris]

Interesting that having a job didn't help him before. Perhaps failure would increase the odds that he sees the need to change.

The reason AA works is because it is a support group of people who truly understand the trials and tribulations of the recovering addict. When used with an employer's various options of support, the odds of recovery increase even more. It's simply a fact.

Wadding up and throwing out people who have stumbled due to drug addiction, without a legitimate attempt to bring them into recovery, is bad policy and lousy humanity.

 

[Mulli]

The reason AA works is because it is a support group of people who truly understand the trials and tribulations of the recovering addict. When used with an employer's various options of support, the odds of recovery increase even more. It's simply a fact.

Wadding up and throwing out people who have stumbled due to drug addiction, without a legitimate attempt to bring them into recovery, is bad policy and lousy humanity.

I know why AA works. I am one. I also know, from personal experience, that sometimes hard reality and tough love triumph over sympathy. Yes, the employee doesn't always need to be fired, but sometimes it is necessary and beneficial.

Sympathy kills alcoholics.

Edit: I don't know enough about Grace's situation to know which course of action is was the best way to go. Depends on him really.

 

[UncleChris]

I know why AA works. I am one. I also know, from personal experience, that sometimes hard reality and tough love triumph over sympathy. Yes, the employee doesn't always need to be fired, but sometimes it is necessary and beneficial.

Sympathy kills alcoholics.

Edit: I don't know enough about Grace's situation to know which course of action is was the best way to go. Depends on him really.

If the jail time doesn't work, then we agree on the "tough love." And I'm talking about successful rehabilitation, not sympathy.

And we're just shooting the breeze here. You are absolutely correct in pointing out that we don't really have enough info.

 

[Mulli]

If the jail time doesn't work, then we agree on the "tough love." And I'm talking about successful rehabilitation, not sympathy.

And we're just shooting the breeze here. You are absolutely correct in pointing out that we don't really have enough info.

Exactly. From what I hear about Tent City, it isn't a cake walk. We shall see.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If the jail time doesn't work, then we agree on the "tough love." And I'm talking about successful rehabilitation, not sympathy.

And we're just shooting the breeze here. You are absolutely correct in pointing out that we don't really have enough info.

Is there a reason we're just assuming he's an alcoholic (or an addict)?

Steve

 

[Mulli]

Is there a reason we're just assuming he's an alcoholic (or an addict)?

Steve

If it looks like a duck...

Doesn't matter if he doesn't think he is.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Is there a reason we're just assuming he's an alcoholic (or an addict)?

Steve

Second arrest for DUI in 15 months and 4 charges of aggravated DUI - including driving on a suspended license and tampering/removing an interlock device.

The signs are there...

 

[AzStevenCal]

If it looks like a duck...

Doesn't matter if he doesn't think he is.

Second arrest for DUI in 15 months and 4 charges of aggravated DUI - including driving on a suspended license and tampering/removing an interlock device.

The signs are there...

It's clear he has a problem, it is not clear to me that his problem is alcoholism. Perhaps it is but I've met some highly committed drunks and they are just as capable of doing the above things IMO. In the end, it doesn't matter all that much but there are always risks when you address the wrong problem.

Steve

 

[BC867]

Is there a reason we're just assuming he's an alcoholic (or an addict)?

Steve

From the article I referenced in post #21:

Grace has agreed to help spread the message about the dangers of alcohol to youths who participate in Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office programs.

“Now I can speak from experience, and mean it when I say, ‘Don’t do it, don’t do it, don’t do it.’ ”

"Dangers of alcohol." "Speak from experience." 'No assumption there.

Grace said he will never again drink and drive.

And, unfortunately announcing, not that he will stop drinking, but will stop driving when he drinks.

That is not the cure for being a drunk. Nor does it show the desire to stop. Doesn't AA require that willingness and commitment in order to help?

 

[AzStevenCal]

From the article I referenced in post #21:

"Dangers of alcohol." "Speak from experience." 'No assumption there.


And, unfortunately announcing, not that he will stop drinking, but will stop driving when he drinks.

That is not the cure for being a drunk. Nor does it show the desire to stop. Doesn't AA require that willingness and commitment in order to help?

I'm not really sure where you're going here. If Grace is an alcoholic, he absolutely needs to stop consuming alcohol. But, not everyone that gets drunk and does stupid things is an alcoholic. If you're an alcoholic, you're addicted, it's as simple as that but my understanding is that by no means does every long-term heavy drinker become an alcoholic. I don't think it's even close. I was a drunk for many years and never once drank when I did not drink to excess. I was never an alcoholic although I clearly had a problem that involved alcohol. Granted, if you start getting multiple DUI's and such, the likelihood you're addicted certainly rises but again it's not clear-cut.

Steve