Markelle Fultz

[elindholm]

UCLA FG % with Ball = .522% (1210 / 2320)
UCLA FG% without Ball = .516% (1021 / 1977)
Ball FG% = .551% (189 / 343)


Washington FG% with Fultz = .448% (874 / 1950)
Washington FG% without Fultz = .440% (665 / 1511)
Fultz FG% = .476% ( 209 / 439)

Do you have the team FG% numbers according to whether or not Ball/Fultz is on the floor?

 

[3rdside]

Unfortunately not - it's a crude rip from team statistics.

 

[elindholm]

Unfortunately not - it's a crude rip from team statistics.

Bummer. That could be revealing. Maybe the reason that UCLA's overall FG% is so high is that Ball generates better shots for everyone, whether those show up as assists or not. Then he sits and the whole offense goes to garbage, like the Thunder without Westbrook.

Either way, I'm amazed that neither of these superstar PG prospects can shoot 70% from the line. That's unacceptable and would give me serious pause about drafting either of them. Even Kidd was at least at 70% (.698) as an NBA rookie.

 

[3rdside]

Bummer. That could be revealing. Maybe the reason that UCLA's overall FG% is so high is that Ball generates better shots for everyone, whether those show up as assists or not. Then he sits and the whole offense goes to garbage, like the Thunder without Westbrook.

Either way, I'm amazed that neither of these superstar PG prospects can shoot 70% from the line. That's unacceptable and would give me serious pause about drafting either of them. Even Kidd was at least at 70% (.698) as an NBA rookie.

I hadn't thought of UCLAs FG% being helped by Ball but that's a good point.

And I'm not not drafting either Ball or Fultz because of their FT% !

 

[Mainstreet]

It is a good point made by Elindholm. Even casual observation shows what makes Ball special. He is an exceptional passer. He creates easy shots for teammates. I think this is why he is even in the conversation for the first or second pick.

I like Fultz because he is more athletic and he has more potential to score the ball. Plus he can do many of the things Ball does.

 

[GatorAZ]

I want Fultz but throw out assist numbers when UCLA was better at every position.

Leaf is a 1st rd pick
Alford is a top-5 scorer in UCLA history
Hamilton was putting up great numbers before Lonzo got there (16/4/3-47%)
Their 6th man Aaron Holliday may end up getting drafted
Welsh is limited but automatic from the elbow

Fultz also started with 3 sophomores. Lonzo two seniors, a junior and Leaf.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Style is irrelevant, and whether it's essential Ball has to shoot off the dribble could be open to debate...What's wrong with shooting 3's and layups? It seems to fit perfectly the direction of the NBA, that is higher efficiency shots.

The problem isn't that he gets a lot of 3s and layups, but that he is virtually incapable of scoring in the mid-range which means that is exactly the shot that teams will force him in to.

Also when looking at individual shooting numbers you have to factor in the team that is around each player. UCLA is packed with good shooters and people that you can't leave to double team anyone and thus Ball saw very good spacing and open lanes to the basket.

Washington didn't have anywhere near the level of spacing that UCLA had and also had guys that could be left open to go double Fultz. Also the lack of spacing meant that Fultz rarely had a clear lane to the rim in half court sets and because the team relied so heavily on Fultz creating offense he also couldn't get a a lot of off ball scoring opportunities that Ball had (Ball caught a bunch of lob passes for uncontested dunks, for instance).

 

[Mainstreet]

The problem isn't that he gets a lot of 3s and layups, but that he is virtually incapable of scoring in the mid-range which means that is exactly the shot that teams will force him in to.

Also when looking at individual shooting numbers you have to factor in the team that is around each player. UCLA is packed with good shooters and people that you can't leave to double team anyone and thus Ball saw very good spacing and open lanes to the basket.

Washington didn't have anywhere near the level of spacing that UCLA had and also had guys that could be left open to go double Fultz. Also the lack of spacing meant that Fultz rarely had a clear lane to the rim in half court sets and because the team relied so heavily on Fultz creating offense he also couldn't get a a lot of off ball scoring opportunities that Ball had (Ball caught a bunch of lob passes for uncontested dunks, for instance).

I especially like the idea of a PG that can create offense on his own if the need arises. IMO, Ball is not going to be able to do this once defenses take away his comfort zone.

 

[Mainstreet]

I want Fultz but throw out assist numbers when UCLA was better at every position.

Leaf is a 1st rd pick
Alford is a top-5 scorer in UCLA history
Hamilton was putting up great numbers before Lonzo got there (16/4/3-47%)
Their 6th man Aaron Holliday may end up getting drafted
Welsh is limited but automatic from the elbow

Fultz also started with 3 sophomores. Lonzo two seniors, a junior and Leaf.

Point well taken.

 

[3rdside]

The problem isn't that he gets a lot of 3s and layups, but that he is virtually incapable of scoring in the mid-range which means that is exactly the shot that teams will force him in to.

Also when looking at individual shooting numbers you have to factor in the team that is around each player. UCLA is packed with good shooters and people that you can't leave to double team anyone and thus Ball saw very good spacing and open lanes to the basket.

Washington didn't have anywhere near the level of spacing that UCLA had and also had guys that could be left open to go double Fultz. Also the lack of spacing meant that Fultz rarely had a clear lane to the rim in half court sets and because the team relied so heavily on Fultz creating offense he also couldn't get a a lot of off ball scoring opportunities that Ball had (Ball caught a bunch of lob passes for uncontested dunks, for instance).

1. How though, by leaving him wide open at the 3pt line so he thinks he can drive into mid range space?

Keep in mind he's a 6'6" PG so saying he'll be smothered by opposing PG's when shooting 3's, or being forced off a 3 because of defence doesn't make sense because he's so much taller than them.

Curry is a 6'3" guard with a low release and he gets them off just fine.


2. Ball creates amazing space, double teamed or not, good players around him or not...he just opens the floor up so well that you can't guard against it. Fultz you kind of know he's going to try to score himself, but pass at the last second if that's not possible. Seems a lot easier to defend that rather than the chaos Ball creates.

 

[3rdside]

Question about Ball - if we draft him, you think it likely he forces a trade back to LA after his rookie season? If so, does that count against drafting him?

I could see a lot of professional reasons for it being better for him to stay away from LA, from friends and distractions etc, and Phoenix being the nearest to LA we may be the best non-LA city for him..he can do his pro stuff with us and his marketing stuff in the off season at home 1 hour away by plane.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'm definitely in the Fultz camp because the way he plays easily converts over to the NBA style. Like I've said before, he reminds me a bit of the good traits of Stephon Marbury, but he looks to be less selfish.

The argument that Ball played on a much better team has merit. I wod love to see how Ball would've done on UW.

Right now I'm leaning:
1) Fultz
2) Jackson
3) Tatum
4) Fox/ Ball

I've warmed a lot to Jackson because I think he would add alot of defense, rebounding, passing to the wing while he develops as a scorer. Tatum mostly adds shooting, but I don't know if he has the ceiling that Jackson has.

I think I like Fox as much as I like Ball, but I'm not certain either will be better than Bledsoe is. If the Suns don't get Fultz, they need to focus on the wings first.

 

[3rdside]

I think I like Fox as much as I like Ball, but I'm not certain either will be better than Bledsoe is.

I'm gonna go Slinslin on you and say this is insane.

 

[3rdside]

*This is surely insane..6'1" PG's averaging 20 and 6 are a dime a dozen, nothing about Ball suggests he's average.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm definitely in the Fultz camp because the way he plays easily converts over to the NBA style. Like I've said before, he reminds me a bit of the good traits of Stephon Marbury, but he looks to be less selfish.

The argument that Ball played on a much better team has merit. I wod love to see how Ball would've done on UW.

Right now I'm leaning:
1) Fultz
2) Jackson
3) Tatum
4) Fox/ Ball

I've warmed a lot to Jackson because I think he would add alot of defense, rebounding, passing to the wing while he develops as a scorer. Tatum mostly adds shooting, but I don't know if he has the ceiling that Jackson has.

I think I like Fox as much as I like Ball, but I'm not certain either will be better than Bledsoe is. If the Suns don't get Fultz, they need to focus on the wings first.

Methinks there are not many steadfast Bledsoe fans on the forum.

 

[pokerface]

Methinks there are not many steadfast Bledsoe fans on the forum.

Well he's not a great distributor. Then maybe some fans have knee, contract, or age concerns.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well he's not a great distributor. Then maybe some fans have knee, contract, or age concerns.

If it wasn't for Bledsoe's knee and his contract expiring in two years, I could be quite happy with him. His age is not a huge concern for me. That said, I'd rather trade a player a year early than a year late. I do not want to pay him the big contract in two years.

So, I'm checking out PGs as well under BPA.

 

[Errntknght]

Unfortunately not - it's a crude rip from team statistics.

Wait a second - if the numbers of shots and makes for the teams are right, the percentages are right. Maybe in Fultz's case the team shots includes games in which he didn't play but I don't see any real problem with that. Or maybe I just don't get what you and Elindholm are talking about.

 

[Sunburn]

I'm gonna go Slinslin on you and say this is insane.

I like Fultz and Ball a lot, but saying either will be better than a top 40 player in the league (PER) before either has played one NBA minute does not seem correct to me. These guys are good but they're not Lebron. There's been plenty of surprise busts. I've never seen the Suns fan base underrate one of their own as much as Eric Bledsoe. I wonder if he was actually on the All-Star team this year, which he was well deserving of, would have changed his perception at all. I think it would have changed it significantly.


http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics

 

[pokerface]

If it wasn't for Bledsoe's knee and his contract expiring in two years, I could be quite happy with him. His age is not a huge concern for me. That said, I'd rather trade a player a year early than a year late. I do not want to pay him the big contract in two years.

So, I'm checking out PGs as well under BPA.

I agree on that. If Bledsoe had another couple extra years on his contract I'd want to keep him around. His knees and age are overrated as perceived problems IMO. But when we take everything as a conglomeration (especially the contract) it's an uncertain future with him.

 

[Yuma]

I can see criticism of Bledose maybe the previous seasons. This season he turned the corner and figured out how to get opposing players to put him on the free throw line almost at will. He has become that crafty veteran player. Let's say we draft Ball or Fultz. They need a season to get acclimated to the NBA arguably. Bledsoe has two years left on his contract. He now becomes that starter who is training his replacement. You also have Uliss 3 more seasons. So the minutes per game at the PG position become less for Bledsoe, which means his kness are less of an issue. Every team in the NBA will cut Bledsoe slack for playing less minutes and his stats going down because they will know the situation if we draft Fultz or Ball. They will be looking at how to get Bledsoe when his contract runs out. The other teams either try and woe him as an unrestricted free agent, or if there is enough demand for a starting PG in a season or season and a half, someone will actually trade for him to beat the others out of the Bledsoe free agency race. Maybe we can do a sign and trade?

I think the remaining two years of Bledsoe's contract are an ideal situation for us if we do have to take a PG in the draft.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Question about Ball - if we draft him, you think it likely he forces a trade back to LA after his rookie season? If so, does that count against drafting him?

I could see a lot of professional reasons for it being better for him to stay away from LA, from friends and distractions etc, and Phoenix being the nearest to LA we may be the best non-LA city for him..he can do his pro stuff with us and his marketing stuff in the off season at home 1 hour away by plane.

Force a trade after his rookie season? How may I ask is he going to do that?!? We've never seen that in the history of the NBA much less in the current cba environment where it's even more difficult to leave your current team for years. All this gnashing of teeth over his being a lakers fan and his dads big mouth is hilarious (and lame) to me.

 

[Errntknght]

Force a trade after his rookie season? How may I ask is he going to do that?!? We've never seen that in the history of the NBA much less in the current cba environment where it's even more difficult to leave your current team for years. All this gnashing of teeth over his being a lakers fan and his dads big mouth is hilarious (and lame) to me.

We have had two cases where players forced their way out before their rookie season - Francis refused to go to Vancouver and Williams wouldn't play for us. That may be impossible now, but we thought it was impossible before Francis did it. I'm fairly sure players can force their way out after their rookie contract plus one year and stay within the current rules.

 

[Finito]

I can see criticism of Bledose maybe the previous seasons. This season he turned the corner and figured out how to get opposing players to put him on the free throw line almost at will. He has become that crafty veteran player. Let's say we draft Ball or Fultz. They need a season to get acclimated to the NBA arguably. Bledsoe has two years left on his contract. He now becomes that starter who is training his replacement. You also have Uliss 3 more seasons. So the minutes per game at the PG position become less for Bledsoe, which means his kness are less of an issue. Every team in the NBA will cut Bledsoe slack for playing less minutes and his stats going down because they will know the situation if we draft Fultz or Ball. They will be looking at how to get Bledsoe when his contract runs out. The other teams either try and woe him as an unrestricted free agent, or if there is enough demand for a starting PG in a season or season and a half, someone will actually trade for him to beat the others out of the Bledsoe free agency race. Maybe we can do a sign and trade?

I think the remaining two years of Bledsoe's contract are an ideal situation for us if we do have to take a PG in the draft.

No it's not ideal it's the worst situation we can get into if we draft Fultz or Ball. Your gonna stunt the growth of Ulis and Bledsoe does not have the personality of being happy "training his replacement " we also still have Knight on the roster

You move him on draft day and get what you can't for him and some assets.

 

[Yuma]

No it's not ideal it's the worst situation we can get into if we draft Fultz or Ball. Your gonna stunt the growth of Ulis and Bledsoe does not have the personality of being happy "training his replacement " we also still have Knight on the roster

You move him on draft day and get what you can't for him and some assets.

It's too bad there isn't going to be a team that loses all their guards to free agency where we can trade Bledsoe and Knight as an instant 1-2 guard combination package!