Markus Golden to the Giants

[Chopper0080]

2 things our defense seems to be lacking.

I don't disagree, but I also don't know if I want to pay 9 mil for it.

 

[ajcardfan]

I didn’t care about him leaving at the time. Not going the hindsight criticism route on Keim here.

As shown by the brevity of, and lack of passion shown in, this thread, you were in vast majority of Cardinals fans at the time.

 

[ajcardfan]

I didn’t care about him leaving at the time. Not going the hindsight criticism route on Keim here.

As shown by the brevity of, and lack of passion shown in, this thread, you were in the majority opinion of Cardinals fans at the time.

 

[vince56]

He has exceeded my expectations but keep in mind the weak NYG pass coverage provides him quite a few opportunities.

So a bad pass defense makes pass rushing better because there's more opportunities? I think it levels out if that's the case because there would be less coverage sacks. Also if you're losing, you'll have less pass rush opportunities too as teams will run the ball more.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Two guys who I didn’t care we let go and was wrong on: Golden and John Smokey Brown. I can live with that. It’s not like when we let Thomas Jones go

 

[AZfaninMN]

I don't disagree, but I also don't know if I want to pay 9 mil for it.

I agree, we didn’t have $9m available for a player who we weren’t sure would be able to get to the QB still. He always was a step late after his knee injury.

 

[Solar7]

As shown by the brevity of, and lack of passion shown in, this thread, you were in the majority opinion of Cardinals fans at the time.

It was easier not to overreact when we’d signed Suggs and Bosa was still in play. If I had really known how likely it was that Suggs was going to be our only guy, I’d have really been mad.

 

[CardNots]

He always was a step late after his knee injury.

in essence he was still coming back from his ACL. For a pass rusher I would think it would take a year of engagement after the rehab before regaining previous form if at all. It appears he has and would be a good piece with jones.

Unfortunately cheaper options will be available.

Here’s the thing, I always believed golden benefited from having chandler on the other side and he did but Markus can hold his own.

 

[wa52lz]

I agree, we didn’t have $9m available for a player who we weren’t sure would be able to get to the QB still. He always was a step late after his knee injury.

He only got $3.75 from NY, we could've swung that.

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[JeffGollin]

Same dude who deserves the credit for bringing in Golden no doubt gets blamed for letting him escape.

NFL justice.

 

[Finito]

Same dude who deserves the credit for bringing in Golden no doubt gets blamed for letting him escape.

NFL justice.

these takes make me laugh. Golden had clearly lost a step and it was the right move to let him go

 

[Solar7]

Same dude who deserves the credit for bringing in Golden no doubt gets blamed for letting him escape.

NFL justice.

these takes make me laugh. Golden had clearly lost a step and it was the right move to let him go

The guy deserves credit for getting him, but also deserves the blame for not retaining the players that have gone on to contribute elsewhere. He's making the wrong calls by abandoning those he scouted and drafted, only to sign overpriced free agents.

I make work analogies a lot, but if I kept losing internal candidates that we hired, trained them poorly, and kept putting the burden on us to hire experienced people who cost us more in both recruitment and training, I would lose my job.

 

[Finito]

The guy deserves credit for getting him, but also deserves the blame for not retaining the players that have gone on to contribute elsewhere. He's making the wrong calls by abandoning those he scouted and drafted, only to sign overpriced free agents.

I make work analogies a lot, but if I kept losing internal candidates that we hired, trained them poorly, and kept putting the burden on us to hire experienced people who cost us more in both recruitment and training, I would lose my job.

just stop. He was clearly not the same player after his ACL tear. It’s taken him a couple years to get back to being productive. You cannot continue to ignore this fact.

now I’m happy for him but good lord

 

[Solar7]

just stop. He was clearly not the same player after his ACL tear. It’s taken him a couple years to get back to being productive. You cannot continue to ignore this fact.

now I’m happy for him but good lord

Have I been wailing and gnashing my teeth about Golden anywhere? Keim has re-signed three players in his tenure, and one is a player who would have gone anywhere else if offered a contract. And then Mathieu's gone, and we want to get rid of DJ. He deserves flak for this.

 

[slanidrac16]

Have I been wailing and gnashing my teeth about Golden anywhere? Keim has re-signed three players in his tenure, and one is a player who would have gone anywhere else if offered a contract. And then Mathieu's gone, and we want to get rid of DJ. He deserves flak for this.

Little confused, Solar. Are you saying we should have kept Golden, Matthieu, and Brown?

 

[Finito]

Have I been wailing and gnashing my teeth about Golden anywhere? Keim has re-signed three players in his tenure, and one is a player who would have gone anywhere else if offered a contract. And then Mathieu's gone, and we want to get rid of DJ. He deserves flak for this.

again

we offered Mathieu more money than anybody else. He thought we low balled him made a big deal about it and he wanted to test the market and ended up signing for less that what we offered. He got bad advice from his agent.

DJ signed his big deal and hasn’t played hard since. That’s always a risk.

 

[Solar7]

Little confused, Solar. Are you saying we should have kept Golden, Matthieu, and Brown?

No, I'm saying that Keim has been incapable of keeping players that should have had a continued role here on decent contracts. Whether you want to indict him for poor drafting or the inability to retain players, it's one of the two.

 

[Solar7]

again

we offered Mathieu more money than anybody else. He thought we low balled him made a big deal about it and he wanted to test the market and ended up signing for less that what we offered. He got bad advice from his agent.

DJ signed his big deal and hasn’t played hard since. That’s always a risk.

Uhhhh... that's not what happened at all.

We re-signed him to a major deal, and then stepped back on it later when he was struggling. We asked him to restructure, he said no, and it was the best opportunity for us to cut him with a minimal dead cap hit. He declined to restructure, we cut him, and he went to Houston.

I'm not saying he's the winner here, but we provided him with a major contract after injury just like we did David Johnson, and that comprises most of the very few players Keim has ever brought back past their rookie year.

 

[Finito]

Uhhhh... that's not what happened at all.

We re-signed him to a major deal, and then stepped back on it later when he was struggling. We asked him to restructure, he said no, and it was the best opportunity for us to cut him with a minimal dead cap hit. He declined to restructure, we cut him, and he went to Houston.

I'm not saying he's the winner here, but we provided him with a major contract after injury just like we did David Johnson, and that comprises most of the very few players Keim has ever brought back past their rookie year.

restructure for more money than he got on the open market. Yes? Yes? That’s right

 

[Solar7]

restructure for more money than he got on the open market. Yes? Yes? That’s right

There's no way for him to know what he would have gotten on the open market. He and his agent being wrong didn't mean Keim gets a pass on not retaining talent or handing out poor contracts.

You're awfully defensive of Keim, what are his grand successes? Why can't we retain anyone we draft? What stars has he drafted?

 

[daves]

There's no way for him to know what he would have gotten on the open market. He and his agent being wrong didn't mean Keim gets a pass on not retaining talent or handing out poor contracts.

First off, if his agent didn't talk to other teams and get an idea of his market value before rejecting the pay cut demand, he's the worst agent in the league. Second, if Keim's reduced salary offer was better than market value and Matthieu still didn't accept it... is that really on Keim?

...dbs

 

[Solar7]

First off, if his agent didn't talk to other teams and get an idea of his market value before rejecting the pay cut demand, he's the worst agent in the league. Second, if Keim's reduced salary offer was better than market value and Matthieu still didn't accept it... is that really on Keim?

...dbs

We can make an excuse for every situation. For almost every player, for every GM. At the end of the day, Keim has not been a good GM that is capable of retaining players, drafting good players, or otherwise.

Keim's currently a bad GM. The numbers prove it. His performance is lesser than his successful peers. What else is there to say?

 

[daves]

We can make an excuse for every situation.

I'm not making an excuse for every situation, I'm responding to your specific claims. You said "There's no way [for Matthieu] to know what he would have gotten on the open market." That is patenly false. You said that Keim doesn't "[get] a pass on not retaining talent" in this case, but either he does, or you should support giving way above market contracts to players in order to retain them. You can't have it both ways.

There are scores of threads on Keim being a bad GM, and I'm not in there refuting that. But not retaining Matthieu is a poor example of something to hold against him.

...dave

 

[juza76]

Extending guys coming from a severe injury is always a gamble
Keim hasnt been lucky with DJ Matthieu
Then u have golden who was in his final year and finished poorly statiscally and went to the giants and had like 10sacks or more

 

[Solar7]

I'm not making an excuse for every situation, I'm responding to your specific claims. You said "There's no way [for Matthieu] to know what he would have gotten on the open market." That is patenly false. You said that Keim doesn't "[get] a pass on not retaining talent" in this case, but either he does, or you should support giving way above market contracts to players in order to retain them. You can't have it both ways.

There are scores of threads on Keim being a bad GM, and I'm not in there refuting that. But not retaining Matthieu is a poor example of something to hold against him.

...dave

Not retaining Mathieu (one T), is part of a larger issue. I'm not sure how else to say this - he shouldn't have rewarded Tyrann with a major contract following injury that would become completely untenable if Ty wasn't playing at an All-Pro level. Unfortunately he did, and it was taken as disrespect.

Each player has an excuse or reason - but whatever way you want to paint it, Keim has been very very poor at drafting and retaining homewgrown talent.

 

[AZfaninMN]

He only got $3.75 from NY, we could've swung that.

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You’re right. I figured the $9m chopper said was what he got for a 1 year deal. For that price he would’ve been worth the gamble to see if he could come back. Paid more for Suggs who is 9 years older. Golden will make more this FA period.