Martin to be signed and traded

[George O'Brien]

He is restricted, the Nets had the right to match any offer.

If the Net re-signed him, they could turn around and trade him to someone else like Atlanta. The Hawks could give up someone like Terry and still have loads of cap space left. Or the Nets could do a deal with Portland for SAR who has an expiring contract.

 

[F-Dog]

I just dont get it... why didnt the Nuggs just outright sign him?

Well, they got him for less this way; they didn't have to eat their own 'poison pill' and give out a huge signing bonus, so Martin is tradeable down the line; and the Nets could easily have matched if the alternative was to lose Martin for nothing.

The Nets are choosing Jefferson over Martin here, but the difference in value isn't so extreme that they wouldn't match Martin's offer and trade Jefferson during the season. The draft picks give them a reason not to do that.



I don't think the Nuggets would trade Nene for JJ any time soon--quality shooting guards are so much easier to find than quality centers (although Nene loses a lot of value when he plays PF).


With K-Mart, 'Melo and 'Dre Miller, the Nuggets now have three core players that make my 'All-Overrated' list. It will be interesting to see how the team does when Marcus Camby goes down.

 

[Chaz]

It will be interesting to see how the team does when Marcus Camby goes down.

I think this is the reason they have to keep Nene. They need depth at that position based on Camby's history.

The only other center the Nuggets have under contract right now is Elson.

 

[NugzFan]

i was just looking up nene's stats and i will say it right now i am shocked. where are his blocked shots? .8 and .5 blocked shots a game? what kind of coaches do you guys have up there that this is the best that you can get out of nene? he blocked 5 shots against j. o'neall and team usa in the pan amarican games and he cant average a block a game in the nba?

nene doesnt block shots. hes a great defender but not a shot blocker.

 

[NugzFan]

b) we save some cap space in the short term to go after another minor FA

How? Signing bonuses don't have cap implications.

no i meant our original offer which was frontloaded with a signing bonus vs. the actual deal in the sign and trade.

 

[SweetD]

no i meant our original offer which was frontloaded with a signing bonus vs. the actual deal in the sign and trade.

Good to know you signed a Martin a one time all-star for a Max contract. I am just not sold on him being a player that will produce to that level with out Kidd getting him the ball.

 

[Chaz]

Good to know you signed a Martin a one time all-star for a Max contract. I am just not sold on him being a player that will produce to that level with out Kidd getting him the ball.

I expect a bit of a drop off with Martin, much like Marion had, now that he is not playing with Kidd. I still think he will be an effective player however.


Nene is a big young body. I don't think it matters that he is not a big shot blocker. Shot blocking has a lot to do with timing. He will probably never be a great shot blocker but he could very well improve as his career goes on.

 

[NugzFan]

Good to know you signed a Martin a one time all-star for a Max contract. I am just not sold on him being a player that will produce to that level with out Kidd getting him the ball.

dre can pass!

 

[Chaz]

dre can pass!

Sure he can, so can Marbury, but neither of them are Jason Kidd.

 

[SweetD]

dre can pass!

He is also slower than Kidd and older if I am not mistaken.

 

[NugzFan]

He is also slower than Kidd and older if I am not mistaken.

dre has about 3 years on kidd and while no one compares to kidd in the passing department i think he can do the job pretty damn well...

dre/melo/kmart/nene on the break! HELL YES!

 

[George O'Brien]

dre has about 3 years on kidd and while no one compares to kidd in the passing department i think he can do the job pretty damn well...

dre/melo/kmart/nene on the break! HELL YES!

Can you imagine if they had another guard?

 

[NugzFan]

Can you imagine if they had another guard?

well we cant expect to fill every hole in one offseason. id rather have quality size than quality guards though.

 

[slinslin]

Well I doubt Kenyon Martin is putting fear into any big western teams. The key for the Nuggets is still Camby.

 

[NugzFan]

Well I doubt Kenyon Martin is putting fear into any big western teams. The key for the Nuggets is still Camby.

true but not many teams can put fear into the big western teams (kings, spurs, wolves). however, at this point we can put fear into any others...coming from 17 wins just TWO seasons ago, thast pretty damn good.

 

[George O'Brien]

true but not many teams can put fear into the big western teams (kings, spurs, wolves). however, at this point we can put fear into any others...coming from 17 wins just TWO seasons ago, thast pretty damn good.

The Nuggets have a decent team. With their size, they may be better than the Suns on paper at least. Martin will give them a good defender who is good in the open court.

The question is whether the Nuggets are really geared to be an open court team. Miller did not impress the second half of the season, their SG's are mostly shooters, and it is not clear their coach is going to implement a push offense. But unless they do, the Nuggets will soon learn that K-Mart without Kidd is not that big an offensive threat.

 

[NugzFan]

The Nuggets have a decent team. With their size, they may be better than the Suns on paper at least. Martin will give them a good defender who is good in the open court.

oh geez...how nice of you. its one thing IF we won more games than you did last year but i gotta be fair here. if we can somehow JUMP the suns in the standings, it would be an impressive accomplishment.

The question is whether the Nuggets are really geared to be an open court team. Miller did not impress the second half of the season, their SG's are mostly shooters, and it is not clear their coach is going to implement a push offense. But unless they do, the Nuggets will soon learn that K-Mart without Kidd is not that big an offensive threat.

we lead the league in fast break points and just added one of the best running/finishing big men in the game today.

its easy to find all the negatives for each player on our team and assume thats how itll be...you can do that with ANY player on ANY team! try it.

 

[Gee!]

The Denver Fools Gold still suck. Suns gonna whoop that ass baby!

 

[George O'Brien]

I've given the Nuggets a lot of credit for the year they had and I think Martin makes them an even better team. I don't see why you should get so defensive about it.

Comparing the Suns season to the Nuggets season is a bit deceptive. The Suns, they had their best player injured for a big part of the season after not fully recovering from surgery on his toe last summer. The Nuggets rookie gets to start the entire season while the Suns first rookie gets mugged which all but kills his season. Take away Camby for for few months and have Forstson cripple Carmelo and then tell me how well the Nuggets would have looked.

It is not a sure thing the Suns will do better than the Nuggets this coming season. But it is not out of the question. Martin is a max player, but I think Amare will soon be clearly better and possibly as early as this year. Nash is much much better than Miller, JJ is better than Lenard or whoever the Nuggets use. Carmelo is a better one on one offensive player than Marion, but I still prefer Marion. The only position that the Nuggets have an overwhelming advantage at is with Camby at center.

I think the Nuggets will be a very good team, but I like the Suns chances.

 

[PhxGametime]

If the Nuggets can jump from the worst team a few years back to being a Playoff team for 1 year in the last 9 years - can't the Suns? Nuggets aren't that bad anymore but this is a Suns board, so I wouldn't take it personal - IMO both teams will make playoffs but if Suns get Q, then I'd take Suns and Amare over K-Mart and the Nuggets though.

I do like K-Mart, Nene, and Camby frontline but Anthony is my most overrated player right now and Andre Miller was my most overrated not too long ago. Amare has dominated K-Mart before and in a playoff series - Nuggets don't have a 4/5 player to get Amare in foul trouble (with lack of depth upfront for Suns) and I can't think of too many penetrators from Nuggets that worry me. Nuggets 4/5's just don't scare me offensively again but Suns would have-to take a big jump from standings to overtake Nuggets in 1 year.

It's possible...

 

[NugzFan]

I

It is not a sure thing the Suns will do better than the Nuggets this coming season.

wow we are grateful to have the chance to be better than the suns. its been so long since we had a better record.

I think the Nuggets will be a very good team, but I like the Suns chances.

its gonna be a battle up and down the western conference. there are about 7 teams that can finish from 4-10.

 

[George O'Brien]

If the Nuggets can jump from the worst team a few years back to being a Playoff team for 1 year in the last 9 years - can't the Suns? Nuggets aren't that bad anymore but this is a Suns board, so I wouldn't take it personal - IMO both teams will make playoffs but if Suns get Q, then I'd take Suns and Amare over K-Mart and the Nuggets though.

I do like K-Mart, Nene, and Camby frontline but Anthony is my most overrated player right now and Andre Miller was my most overrated not too long ago. Amare has dominated K-Mart before and in a playoff series - Nuggets don't have a 4/5 player to get Amare in foul trouble (with lack of depth upfront for Suns) and I can't think of too many penetrators from Nuggets that worry me. Nuggets 4/5's just don't scare me offensively again but Suns would have-to take a big jump from standings to overtake Nuggets in 1 year.

It's possible...

The key to the Nuggets success last season was that Camby was healthy (I think this was more important then Carmelo or Miller). Now, how long will he remain healthy?

 

[NugzFan]

If the Nuggets can jump from the worst team a few years back to being a Playoff team for 1 year in the last 9 years - can't the Suns? Nuggets aren't that bad anymore but this is a Suns board, so I wouldn't take it personal - IMO both teams will make playoffs but if Suns get Q, then I'd take Suns and Amare over K-Mart and the Nuggets though.

have i really said anything that crazy or unrealistic? im just defending my team, thats all. its not like im guaranteeing the nuggets will be better than the suns or the nuggets will have homecourt. i just think its funny that people here think "theres a chance" that denver MIGHT be better.

we can only hope.

 

[PhxGametime]

It's cool - a lot of stuff been going down lately... plus just 2 days ago, I reinjured my back trying to dunk LOL (I'm short)

I normally don't get into discussions other than Draft topics, I'm not the smartest of people anyways - I will behave...

 

[George O'Brien]

have i really said anything that crazy or unrealistic? im just defending my team, thats all. its not like im guaranteeing the nuggets will be better than the suns or the nuggets will have homecourt. i just think its funny that people here think "theres a chance" that denver MIGHT be better.

we can only hope.

I think the Nuggets do have a good team. I also think they have some holes just as the Suns have some holes. The Sun's main hole is at center.

The Nuggets weakness is that lack of a dominant low post player. Martin is OK, but he gets most of his points in the fast break rather than in the low post. By contrast, Stoudemire is one of the better low post guys in the NBA.

What difference does it make? In the playoffs it makes a huge difference to have someone who can force a low post double team. Amare is really the first Sun since Barkley who could do that. He may soon become a bigger low post threat than Barkley ever was.

What is even better is that the Suns now have a PG who can get Amare the ball and hit the three consistently when opponents pack the paint to stop Amare.

Until the Suns have a quality center, they will struggle. But I think the Nuggets lack of a domiant low post player will hold them back as well.