Matt Leinart wants another opportunity

[moklerman]

Anxious, to me, implies I haven't written him off completely. I have. Enthusiastic, maybe if I was writing entire essays on here about the guy (color-coded and everything).

Mokler, you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Tired.

It's called common courtesy. I try and answer questions related to things that people have responded to.

It appears you have a problem seeing the forest through the trees. Perhaps you forget that Leinart had so few attempts because he couldn't get a first down?

No, I haven't forgotten what really happened. But I think others around here have. How many times has it been said that Leinart couldn't even get a first down or touchdown during the '10 preseason? He had 3 first downs in one drive vs. Houston. He had 3 first downs a TD vs. Chicago. Yes, he struggled against Tennessee but the point is, there are some who are exaggerating his struggles and embellishing to try and support their inaccurate opinions.

It isn't me who can't see the forest for the trees, it's me seeing through the B.S.

He outplayed Derek Anderson! w00t!

You don't even remember the point, do you?

 

[Mulli]

It's called common courtesy. I try and answer questions related to things that people have responded to.
No, I haven't forgotten what really happened. But I think others around here have. How many times has it been said that Leinart couldn't even get a first down or touchdown during the '10 preseason? He had 3 first downs in one drive vs. Houston. He had 3 first downs a TD vs. Chicago. Yes, he struggled against Tennessee but the point is, there are some who are exaggerating his struggles and embellishing to try and support their inaccurate opinions.

It isn't me who can't see the forest for the trees, it's me seeing through the B.S.
You don't even remember the point, do you?

No, I don't, but it doesn't matter. Leinart is not sufficiently better than the garbage QB's the Cards played last year for me to care. Based on that, it doesn't really matter whether or not Whiz kept him last year. The Cards would be in the same spot this year whether Leinart went 6-10 or even 7-9 last year.

 

[moklerman]

And THAT'S why Warner only played in 3/4 preseason games because by game 4, it was obvious he was going to be the guy.

Sorry, that doesn't work. Warner didn't play in the first preseason game. Warner was the starter and Leinart would have had to really set the world on fire to outplay, in the preseason, what Warner did in '07.

Even had Leinart really lit things up in the preseason, it was still the preseason so his numbers would have held less weight than what Warner did in live action the year before. I really don't think there's any way--especially considering what we know now, that Leinart was going to win the <ahem>"competition". His meltdown against the Raiders just made it easy on Whis.

I mean, how can anyone think that Whis would have handed him the job in '07 when he flat out cut him after he outperformed the other QB's in '10? Whis did not like Leinart. That's all there is to it.

 

[moklerman]

No, I don't, but it doesn't matter. Leinart is not sufficiently better than the garbage QB's the Cards played last year for me to care. Based on that, it doesn't really matter whether or not Whiz kept him last year. The Cards would be in the same spot this year whether Leinart went 6-10 or even 7-9 last year.

No, if you want to get existential about it, nothing on this board "matters".

But if you're going to ignore who it is that played better in a conversation about who should have won the job, discounting and ignoring information in favor of your opinion then it does become frustrating for someone who's trying to discuss it with you.

If you want to just stick your fingers in your ears and go "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, I can't hear you...", then that's up to you.

I've just been trying to illustrate that the whole Leinart situation seems to have fallen victim to people relying on their emotions than how it actually was. He's basically become the anti-Reno Hightower. As time goes on, the worse Leinart actually was. In a few years, I'm sure he'll be the one held responsible for Pat Tillman's death.

 

[Mulli]

No, if you want to get existential about it, nothing on this board "matters".

But if you're going to ignore who it is that played better in a conversation about who should have won the job, discounting and ignoring information in favor of your opinion then it does become frustrating for someone who's trying to discuss it with you.

If you want to just stick your fingers in your ears and go "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, I can't hear you...", then that's up to you.

I've just been trying to illustrate that the whole Leinart situation seems to have fallen victim to people relying on their emotions than how it actually was. He's basically become the anti-Reno Hightower. As time goes on, the worse Leinart actually was. In a few years, I'm sure he'll be the one held responsible for Pat Tillman's death.

I take that as an admission that whether or not Leinart won the job, the Cards would be in the exact same position. So why would I bother to go back to game logs?

There are more than a few threads on ASFN where I admitted Leinart should be been kept. Six months ago, when the topic was at least somewhat relevant.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Sorry, that doesn't work. Warner didn't play in the first preseason game.

weird. i thought he did. i was wrong. still doesn't change my opinion.

Even had Leinart really lit things up in the preseason, it was still the preseason so his numbers would have held less weight than what Warner did in live action the year before. I really don't think there's any way--especially considering what we know now, that Leinart was going to win the <ahem>"competition". His meltdown against the Raiders just made it easy on Whis.

it made it easy on everyone. it kinda showed that in a pressure situation, the kid royally sucked ass.

I mean, how can anyone think that Whis would have handed him the job in '07 when he flat out cut him after he outperformed the other QB's in '10? Whis did not like Leinart. That's all there is to it.

but you make it out to seem like there was no reason he didn't like Leinart. He was pretty abysmal his first 5 games in 2007 completing only about 50 percent of his passes, averaging only 0.4 touchdowns per game, throwing twice as many interceptions as touchdowns, posting the worst passer rating in the NFL (61.9), and throwing for the fewest yards per game (129).. then looked horrendous when given a shot in the next preseason... then looking AWFUL any time he had to come in for Warner in 2009 (with one uninspiring 10 point spot he put up against Tennesee and then looking like one of the worst QBs in football the last week of the season against the Packers) and... then being pretty pathetic in the 2010 pre-season.

i'm not arguing that anderson was better... just saying that he pretty much never showed much of ANYTHING (save one game against Seattle in 2007) under Wiz to make him like him.

 

[Duckjake]

Sorry, that doesn't work. Warner didn't play in the first preseason game. Warner was the starter and Leinart would have had to really set the world on fire to outplay, in the preseason, what Warner did in '07.

Even had Leinart really lit things up in the preseason, it was still the preseason so his numbers would have held less weight than what Warner did in live action the year before. I really don't think there's any way--especially considering what we know now, that Leinart was going to win the <ahem>"competition". His meltdown against the Raiders just made it easy on Whis.

I mean, how can anyone think that Whis would have handed him the job in '07 when he flat out cut him after he outperformed the other QB's in '10? Whis did not like Leinart. That's all there is to it.

I bought into that Raider game ruse for awhile but I've seen too many other things that make that story just not add up since then.

For those who only consider preseason game 3 important Leinart, who is now considered to be barely better than DA and Max Hall, goes 24-38-346 and 3 TDs in game 3 vs Green Bay in 2009. I believe that was the Packer team that finished with the #5 pass defense in the NFL in 2009. How did ML go from being one of the worst QBs in the NFL to Peyton Manning to back to one of the worst QB in the NFL?

One of these days we'll find out what the real problem was. I think the statute of limitations on the "rest of the story" in the NFL is 3 years.

 

[Cheesebeef]

For those who only consider preseason game 3 important Leinart, who is now considered to be barely better than DA and Max Hall, goes 24-38-346 and 3 TDs in game 3 vs Green Bay in 2009. I believe that was the Packer team that finished with the #5 pass defense in the NFL in 2009.

you maybe believe they had the #5 pass defense in the NFL in 2009... but Matt didn't play against that defense. Warner started that game and played throughout the first half against the Packers number 1s. Then, Matt came in the second half against the Packers second stringers and then didn't even light up the scoreboard until a wild 4th quarter when it was complete scrub time. kinda of a COMPLETELY different picture than going against starters in quarters 1 and 2.

 

[Mulli]

you maybe believe they had the #5 pass defense in the NFL in 2009... but Matt didn't play against that defense. Warner started that game and played throughout the first half against the Packers number 1s. Then, Matt came in the second half against the Packers second stringers and then didn't even light up the scoreboard until a wild 4th quarter when it was complete scrub time. kinda of a COMPLETELY different picture than going against starters in quarters 1 and 2.

He didn't really play against the first unit secondary against the Bears last year either. I am pretty sure the Bears safeties were 2nd and 3rd stringers. I think that is why that was one of the last times Stephen Williams would do much of anything all year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

For those who only consider preseason game 3 important Leinart, who is now considered to be barely better than DA and Max Hall, goes 24-38-346 and 3 TDs in game 3 vs Green Bay in 2009. I believe that was the Packer team that finished with the #5 pass defense in the NFL in 2009. How did ML go from being one of the worst QBs in the NFL to Peyton Manning to back to one of the worst QB in the NFL?

but if you want to look at how Matt played against that same defense when it was actually ON the field, look no further than Week 17 that same year... when he was beyond abysmal when he was 13-21 for a whopping 96 yards, with 2 picks, no TDs and a passer rating of 33.

 

[Mulli]

but if you want to look at how Matt played against that same defense when it was actually ON the field, look no further than Week 17 that same year... when he was beyond abysmal when he was 13-21 for a whopping 96 yards, with 2 picks, no TDs and a passer rating of 33.

Cheese, that was all Whiz' fault, and you know it.

 

[Duckjake]

but you make it out to seem like there was no reason he didn't like Leinart. He was pretty abysmal his first 5 games in 2007 completing only about 50 percent of his passes, averaging only 0.4 touchdowns per game, throwing twice as many interceptions as touchdowns, posting the worst passer rating in the NFL (61.9), and throwing for the fewest yards per game (129).. then looked horrendous when given a shot in the next preseason... then looking AWFUL any time he had to come in for Warner in 2009 (with one uninspiring 10 point spot he put up against Tennesee and then looking like one of the worst QBs in football the last week of the season against the Packers) and... then being pretty pathetic in the 2010 pre-season.

i'm not arguing that anderson was better... just saying that he pretty much never showed much of ANYTHING (save one game against Seattle in 2007) under Wiz to make him like him.

Leinart only had 75 attempts in the games other than Seattle. Hard to put up very high numbers with only 19 throws per game. ML had thrown for a 100 vs the Rams on 13 attempts when he was hurt.

But I think maybe you've shown me something. Leinart looked good in the comeback vs the Bears in the Monday Night Meltdown but is horrible following in games vs Oakland and Dallas but then bounces back with a decent game against Detroit and then sets the rookie passing record vs the Vikings. Same thing in '07 up and down. Again in '08 preseason looks awful vs Raiders lights it up vs Denver. Then in '09 tears up Green Bay in the dress rehearsal game.

Jekyll and Hyde, the little girl with curl. Just too wildly inconsistent to risk an extension of multiple millions?????

Or maybe Matt just needs to go play in the NFC North.

 

[Mulli]

Leinart only had 75 attempts in the games other than Seattle. Hard to put up very high numbers with only 19 throws per game. ML had thrown for a 100 vs the Rams on 13 attempts when he was hurt.

But I think maybe you've shown me something. Leinart looked good in the comeback vs the Bears in the Monday Night Meltdown but is horrible following in games vs Oakland and Dallas but then bounces back with a decent game against Detroit and then sets the rookie passing record vs the Vikings. Same thing in '07 up and down. Again in '08 preseason looks awful vs Raiders lights it up vs Denver. Then in '09 tears up Green Bay in the dress rehearsal game.

Jekyll and Hyde, the little girl with curl. Just too wildly inconsistent to risk an extension of multiple millions?????

Or maybe Matt just needs to go play in the NFC North.

Did you miss Leinart's last game in Soldier field?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Then in '09 tears up Green Bay in the dress rehearsal game... after the Packers undressed

fixed that for you.

 

[Mulli]

fixed that for you.

5/5

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Did you miss Leinart's last game in Soldier field?

Ha, I was there. The routine turned terrifying in short order.

 

[Duckjake]

but if you want to look at how Matt played against that same defense when it was actually ON the field, look no further than Week 17 that same year... when he was beyond abysmal when he was 13-21 for a whopping 96 yards, with 2 picks, no TDs and a passer rating of 33.

Like the Cards were really trying in that game. Everyone knows CKW was laying low for the next week. Means nothing.

Just like 6 for 18 for 30 yards. Warner's numbers vs NE in 2008. A game where we all know the Cards didn't even get off the bus.

 

[Mulli]

Ha, I was there. The routine turned terrifying in short order.

He was the one terrible part in an otherwise glorious afternoon for the Cards. All you have to do is go in and hand it off. Inexplicably, he goes in and throws a pick off his back foot.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

He was the one terrible part in an otherwise glorious afternoon for the Cards. All you have to do is go in and hand it off. Inexplicably, he goes in and throws a pick off his back foot.

A glorious afternoon it was. If I recall, it was in November, yet nice enough weather to wear shorts and a t-shirt. By halftime, things felt well in hand, with a dominant performance by Kurt. Matty Ice comes in, and before you know it, we have a ballgame. A little too exciting for my taste.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Like the Cards were really trying in that game. Everyone knows CKW was laying low for the next week. Means nothing.

trying or not... Matt being on the field making horrific decisions in a spot where he could get some good time to make a name for himself was just another in a long line of terrifying performances any time he stepped on the field that year. Dude was so bad in MOP-UP duty that in one game Warner had to actually come back into the game... and he looked awful in every other opportunity against the Jags, Seattle, Rams, save one completely uninspiring performance against Tenn.

 

[Duckjake]

Did you miss Leinart's last game in Soldier field?

No. I went with the Cards Defense to take a nap when the Cards got up 34-7.

 

[Cheesebeef]

A glorious afternoon it was. If I recall, it was in November, yet nice enough weather to wear shorts and a t-shirt. By halftime, things felt well in hand, with a dominant performance by Kurt. Matty Ice comes in, and before you know it, we have a ballgame. A little too exciting for my taste.

or what about the Rams game where we had a 21-3 lead hen Warner got knocked out at half and we proceded to get like two first downs the rest of the game and the D had to have two late fourth quarter goal-line stands to preserve a 21-13 win against a 1-15 team.

 

[Duckjake]

trying or not... Matt being on the field making horrific decisions in a spot where he could get some good time to make a name for himself was just another in a long line of terrifying performances any time he stepped on the field that year. Dude was so bad in MOP-UP duty that in one game Warner had to actually come back into the game... and he looked awful in every other opportunity against the Jags, Seattle, Rams, save one completely uninspiring performance against Tenn.

Leinart was 31-45 in the next two games after the one pass attempt in Chicago. Mr. Inconsistent.

Anderson only completed more than 55% of his passes in a game twice the entire 2010 season. That's consistent bad Quarterbacking.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Leinart was 31-45 in the next two games after the one pass attempt in Chicago. Mr. Inconsistent.

Duck, you want to tell me how many points the offense scored in those next two games? Probably not considering it was a COMBINED WHOPPING TOTAL OF 10, throwing for zero touchdowns and coughing up one fumble. so, you make the joke above, but actually he was VERY consistent... in making passes that wouldn't move the chains or score any points.

and then he continued on with that great consistency in the pre-season, completing a bunch of passes... that never netted first downs or points.

 

[Cheesebeef]

and let me make something PERFECTLY CLEAR:

I in no way think Derek Anderson was the right call, the way we handled the QB situation last year was one of a complete and utter abomination. But the idea that Wiz simply didn't "like" Matt and had no reason not to is baseless IMO.