Mavs Versus Suns On the Inside

[azirish]

The Suns have reputation for being an "outside shooting" team, but when it comes to low post/pick and roll plays they were far better than the Mavericks last season. This did not stop the Mavs from winning 67 games, but really came back to haunt the Mavs in the playoffs.

There is was a lot of talk that Nowitzki was becoming more of a low post threat, but that statistics do not really back that up. Using statistics taken from http://www.nba.com/hotzones/popup.html for 2006-07,
Dirk's regular season stats give a strong indication of the typ of player he is. Hot zone showed him taking 1339 shots during the regular season (officially he took 1341)

316 close (layups and tips)
379 short range
473 mid range
171 three point

In short, his his layups (post moves, tip in, pick and roll, etc) were just 23.6% of this shots. In 2005-06 Dirk took 364 close in shots of 1564, or 23.3% of his shots which was no real change.

Compare Dirk's shooting to Stoudemire's. Amare took 715 of his 1055 shoots in close, for 67.8% of his shots. Dirk hit 55.4% of his close in shots while Stoudemire hit 64.6% of his shots.

Dirk is a terrific shooter, but he is not really much of a low post threat. It is shocking to realize that Boris Diaw made more close in shots than Dirk (188 to 175), yet Dirk had 1341 total shots to Diaw's 569 shots (Diaw hit 65.3% of his close shots).

For the Mavs, their only "low post threat' was Dampier who took 328 close shots, 98.2% of this shots and hit 63.1%). Diop took 134 of 151 in close for 90.5% of his shots but hit only 49.3%.

Comparing the Suns top three inside guys with the Mavs top three is very illuminating considering the Suns play mostly small ball.

175 of 316 Dirk
207 of 328 Dampier
66 of 134 Diop
------------
448 of 778 for 57.6%

462 of 715 Stoudemire
188 of 288 Diaw
59 of 94 Thomas
-------------
709 of 1097 for 64.6%

Stoudemire along scored more close in shots that the Maverick's big three combined. The Mavericks can use their size to dominate the boards, but not when it comes to inside scoring.

 

[Statmaster]

Very enlightening George. It seems perhaps Chris webber could provide some help down low for Mavs?? I know he's slowing a bit but still productive at a lower level.

I'd love to know how Grant Hill's "inside" #'s were for 06-07......as well as Webber's and PJ Brown's.

I have a feeling Tucker might get a decent % of his points "inside" also.

It is possible that in this off-season by adding Hill and perhaps PJ (we'll see) and with the rookies who seem to have the ability to get to the basket.....this aspect of our game.....may at least hold steady. I know we lost Kurt Thomas and his inside contribution....but we could be even better in this inside scoring area. If by chance Suns sign Skinner also....that could be all the more strength in this area.......which helps to balance our scoring.....inside & outside. So, offensively we could very well be stronger like Mike wants.

Now about that inside defense & rebounding........that is another story......lol!!!!!

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The Suns have reputation for being an "outside shooting" team, but when it comes to low post/pick and roll plays they were far better than the Mavericks last season. This did not stop the Mavs from winning 67 games, but really came back to haunt the Mavs in the playoffs.

There is was a lot of talk that Nowitzki was becoming more of a low post threat, but that statistics do not really back that up. Using statistics taken from http://www.nba.com/hotzones/popup.html for 2006-07,
Dirk's regular season stats give a strong indication of the typ of player he is. Hot zone showed him taking 1339 shots during the regular season (officially he took 1341)

316 close (layups and tips)
379 short range
473 mid range
171 three point

In short, his his layups (post moves, tip in, pick and roll, etc) were just 23.6% of this shots. In 2005-06 Dirk took 364 close in shots of 1564, or 23.3% of his shots which was no real change.

Compare Dirk's shooting to Stoudemire's. Amare took 715 of his 1055 shoots in close, for 67.8% of his shots. Dirk hit 55.4% of his close in shots while Stoudemire hit 64.6% of his shots.

Dirk is a terrific shooter, but he is not really much of a low post threat. It is shocking to realize that Boris Diaw made more close in shots than Dirk (188 to 175), yet Dirk had 1341 total shots to Diaw's 569 shots (Diaw hit 65.3% of his close shots).

For the Mavs, their only "low post threat' was Dampier who took 328 close shots, 98.2% of this shots and hit 63.1%). Diop took 134 of 151 in close for 90.5% of his shots but hit only 49.3%.

Comparing the Suns top three inside guys with the Mavs top three is very illuminating considering the Suns play mostly small ball.

175 of 316 Dirk
207 of 328 Dampier
66 of 134 Diop
------------
448 of 778 for 57.6%

462 of 715 Stoudemire
188 of 288 Diaw
59 of 94 Thomas
-------------
709 of 1097 for 64.6%

Stoudemire along scored more close in shots that the Maverick's big three combined. The Mavericks can use their size to dominate the boards, but not when it comes to inside scoring.

/Redirkulous :kablooey:

 

[azirish]

Very enlightening George. It seems perhaps Chris webber could provide some help down low for Mavs?? I know he's slowing a bit but still productive at a lower level.

I've said all along I thought that Webber was the only big the Mavs might offer more than vet min for. It appears Webber remains focused on returning to the Pistons, but everyone doubts his mobility.

I'd love to know how Grant Hill's "inside" #'s were for 06-07......as well as Webber's and PJ Brown's.

I did an analysis of Hill about a month ago. 269 of his 660 shots were in close, which is only 40.1% of his attempts. However, 189 of his 342 makes were in close, or 55.3% of his makes. The reason is that he hits an astounding 70.3% of his inside shots. (By comparison, Manu hits only 57.6% of his in close shots. His percentage is even better than that of Parker at 63%, but Parker takes many more attempts).

Webber averaged 55.0% or 175 of 318 in close. BTW, Webber used to be a good outsid shooter but his mid range was just 59 of 163 for 36.2% and close in was 34.7%.

In another thread I did an analysis of PJ's inside shooting, which is just awful. My conclusion was that he's much better as a mid range shooter with almost no back to the basket skills.

I have a feeling Tucker might get a decent % of his points "inside" also.

That was his college reputation. He's very strong and a great leaper.

It is possible that in this off-season by adding Hill and perhaps PJ (we'll see) and with the rookies who seem to have the ability to get to the basket.....this aspect of our game.....may at least hold steady. I know we lost Kurt Thomas and his inside contribution....but we could be even better in this inside scoring area.

In this thread topic I tried to focus on inside men, which is a bit confusing because Marion played a lot of PF and Diaw was an SF; but Marion's inside stuff if through the roof due his fast break points: 371 of 547 for 67.8%. My guess is that fewer than 10 of his buckets were from the low post.

As for slashing, I think we will see more of it this year led by Hill. Functionally, Hill replaces Jones who took only 26 shots in close.

If by chance Suns sign Skinner also....that could be all the more strength in this area.......which helps to balance our scoring.....inside & outside. So, offensively we could very well be stronger like Mike wants.

Now about that inside defense & rebounding........that is another story......lol!!!!!

True, true.

 

[Lorenzo]

scoring inside is definitely an area that dirk needs to improve. if he can improve that area of his game then he might one day be unstoppable. Diop is a defender and damp is a rebounder. They aren't offensive guys. I think dirk has played well against phoenix. Maybe he needs to score more inside agains the suns. It's clear that when he plays against a (short) team like GS, he needs to be able to get inside and punish those teams. That's an area he needs to improve.

 

[Gaddabout]

scoring inside is definitely an area that dirk needs to improve. if he can improve that area of his game then he might one day be unstoppable. Diop is a defender and damp is a rebounder. They aren't offensive guys. I think dirk has played well against phoenix. Maybe he needs to score more inside agains the suns. It's clear that when he plays against a (short) team like GS, he needs to be able to get inside and punish those teams. That's an area he needs to improve.

See, I'm thinking Dirk's run out of room to improve, and that's not a horrible thing. It requires a good size backside to become a true force on the low post. That's God-given. It's not something you can earn in the weight room. Maybe the Mavs should just continue to focus on getting players that can benefit from what Dirk already does so well.

 

[azirish]

Actually, Diaw is pretty good with his back to the basket due to his interior moves; but you are right. Generally big and strong is required.

 

[pokerface]

There is was a lot of talk that Nowitzki was becoming more of a low post threat

Who ever said that??

 

[azirish]

Who ever said that??

TV guys reported that Avery Johnson was pushing Dirk to play inside more.

Playing inside involves getting pushed around a lot. He has a well established reputation for disliking contact.

 

[Lorenzo]

See, I'm thinking Dirk's run out of room to improve, and that's not a horrible thing. It requires a good size backside to become a true force on the low post. That's God-given. It's not something you can earn in the weight room. Maybe the Mavs should just continue to focus on getting players that can benefit from what Dirk already does so well.

I agree with you 100% When dirk came to the mavs I saw that he had talent. However, he has all ready done more than I ever thought he would. His improvements from season to season have been noticeable. Nash as well. Those are two players who are very unique in that aspect(Improving deep in their careers). Even nellie himself said last year that he never expected dirk to be as good as he is now. He saw it in steve, but not dirk(at the all-star break). For that reason, I hold slight hope that dirk still has another level to go to. That and great players find a way to improve late in their career. I don't think he needs to pound it inside all the time. Just in situations where matchups favor his size. That means against a team like golden state who is loaded with small faster players. Dirk needs to go to the basket and exploit the size advantage. That's just my opinion.