McGrady Offer?

Chris_Sanders

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Town Drunk said:
Found this on the ESPN board. It seems one of Orlando's local news-reporters listed the current deals being offered for McGrady. Reportedly, the Suns are offering Marion, Lampe, and the #7

Take it for what it's worth.

http://boards.espn.go.com/cgi/nba/request.dll?MESSAGE&room=nba_orl&id=404412

This trade would not help the Suns at all. All we would be doing is increasing our hole in the middle by removing our most promising player there and taking away the draft pick that may allow us to address it.

What is our biggest weakness right now? Rebounding and shot blocking. This only makes it a bigger weakness and makes it likely we will have to overpay for a mid tier center.
 

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Chris_Sanders said:
This trade would not help the Suns at all. All we would be doing is increasing our hole in the middle by removing our most promising player there and taking away the draft pick that may allow us to address it.

What is our biggest weakness right now? Rebounding and shot blocking. This only makes it a bigger weakness and makes it likely we will have to overpay for a mid tier center.

Rebounding and shot blocking weren't exactly strengths of Lampe's game. He appeared to me as a soft player who could hit jump shots and wasn't exactly a banger on either side of the court.

If we get McGrady it would help tremendously with the Suns offense (although he is a liability on defense). The mid-tier FA center we would get would probably be nothing more than a defensive and rebounding specialist since we wouldn't need big offensive numbers from him.
 

George O'Brien

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I get the impression that people take the Suns, put their names on ping pong balls and pulls combinations at random.

I can't really see Orlando buying that combination, but I don't know what they think of Lampe. I love Lampe's promise, but would they want pick and a guy who has played on 225 minutes? When compared to the Houston offer, it seems a bit weak.

At the same time, I agree with the point Chris made. Once White goes, it leaves the Suns with two inside guys - Amare and Voskuhl plus small ball. This is going to make the Mavs look like giants in comparison.
 

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slinslin said:
I would much rather offer Zarko and Vujanic than Lampe.

Magics are to have their way as to picking the pieces to make the trade work. After all is said and done, we get a FRANCHISE player in this deal. That's also the reason we got whatever we wanted for Marbury, including Lampe. :shrug:
 

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slinslin said:
I would much rather offer Zarko and Vujanic than Lampe.

So would the rest of us but you have to trade something to get something. What I mean by this is they aren't just going to take our junk for McGrady. I wouldn't be suprised though if one of those two isn't included in the end (my guess would be Vujanic at this point).

As for George's question, the thing that the Magic see in Lampe is potential. Remember if it wasn't for his contract issues he would have been a lottery pick and good center prospects aren't exactly easy to find (as Suns fans we should know this better than anyone).
 

George O'Brien

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Evil Ash said:
So would the rest of us but you have to trade something to get something. What I mean by this is they aren't just going to take our junk for McGrady. I wouldn't be suprised though if one of those two isn't included in the end (my guess would be Vujanic at this point).

As for George's question, the thing that the Magic see in Lampe is potential. Remember if it wasn't for his contract issues he would have been a lottery pick and good center prospects aren't exactly easy to find (as Suns fans we should know this better than anyone).

I oppose trading Lampe, even if it is a deal killer. Realistically, if he is that valuable to the Magic he should be that valuable to the Suns. Do you trade apotential star big man for a perimeter player, even a top one? If he isn't a likely star, then why would the Magic want him?
 

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George O'Brien said:
I oppose trading Lampe, even if it is a deal killer. Realistically, if he is that valuable to the Magic he should be that valuable to the Suns. Do you trade a potential star big man for a perimeter player, even a top one?

Depends on the new ownership's line of thinking. Do you build for the future or do they want to win now? If they trade for McGrady their chances of winning now increases (depending on them getting a decent FA center). That would also greatly increase their chances of putting butts in the seats.

Remember he only has potential at this point. We've seen glimpses of what he might become. He may become a good player or he may never become anything more than a bench player.

There have been many big men that have come into the NBA before he did that were said to have potential to become a solid NBA big man but never did (i.e. Big Jake).

If given the choice, I would rather take a proven superstar commodity player than a player with potential every single time.
 

Joe Mama

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George O'Brien said:
I oppose trading Lampe, even if it is a deal killer. Realistically, if he is that valuable to the Magic he should be that valuable to the Suns. Do you trade apotential star big man for a perimeter player, even a top one? If he isn't a likely star, then why would the Magic want him?

George, this kind of thing happens all the time. There are all sorts of reasons that the Phoenix Suns would be willing to trade a possible future star big man. Most importantly the Phoenix Suns would be getting a superstar player. They watch Lampe practice every day. Perhaps they don't feel as good about his potential as we do and other teams like the Orlando Magic do. The Phoenix Suns also will still have money in free agency to sign on another center who is ready now to contribute.

Joe
 

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George O'Brien said:
I oppose trading Lampe, even if it is a deal killer. Realistically, if he is that valuable to the Magic he should be that valuable to the Suns. Do you trade apotential star big man for a perimeter player, even a top one? If he isn't a likely star, then why would the Magic want him?

YES.
 

scotsman13

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Joe Mama said:
George, this kind of thing happens all the time. There are all sorts of reasons that the Phoenix Suns would be willing to trade a possible future star big man. Most importantly the Phoenix Suns would be getting a superstar player. They watch Lampe practice every day. Perhaps they don't feel as good about his potential as we do and other teams like the Orlando Magic do. The Phoenix Suns also will still have money in free agency to sign on another center who is ready now to contribute.

Joe


i will say this agian, i dont think that that tmac or kobe would bring anything to this team. amare is the heart and soul of the team and the leader of the team for the future. tmac and kobe would both have to take a backside to amare and i personally dont believe that they are willing to do that.

so i ask all of you what does kobe or tmac bring to the team that we dont already have? dont tell me a superstar because amare is already that. he went to the line over 10 time a game last year more then tmac and almost as much as kobe.
 

devilalum

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scotsman13 said:
tmac and kobe would both have to take a backside to amare and i personally dont believe that they are willing to do that.

What people do in their private lives is their business but I don't really need to hear about it.
 

scotsman13

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devilalum said:
What people do in their private lives is their business but I don't really need to hear about it.


hehe good point. but on the floor kobe and tmac wont have to be the second option to amare for most of the game.
 

Joe Mama

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I'm sure sunsfn will post this shortly, but ESPN Insider is reporting that the Phoenix Suns are offering Shawn Marion, Casey Jacobsen, and die the #7 or JJ for Tracy McGrady.. They are also reporting that Mark Cuban would be willing to give Dirk Nowitzki in a deal with the Lakers for Shaquille O'Neal. They say that Dirk Nowitzki & Antoine Walker for Shaquille O'Neal is a good deal for both teams that could really happen.

He says that the Phoenix Suns and the LA Clippers are the front runners for Tracy McGrady although the Clippers deal depends on the Grady's willingness to re-sign there.

Joe Mama
 

slinslin

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Looks like Ford expects Marion, Jacobsen and #7 rather than JJ because he is talking about reuniting Gordon and Okafor in Orlando.
Personally I would like to swap Eisley and Howard although Howard's contract is a lot longer. Or we could just offer to take on Howard's contract and still have ~13M$ capspace after the trade.

Okafor/Decerq
Gooden/MLE
Marion/Garrity/Hill
Stevenson/Jacobsen
Gordon/Lue/Eisley

Voshkul/Lampe
Amare/Howard
TMac/Zarko
Johnson/
Barbosa/

We would have about 18M$ capspace to use. Dampier(6M$), Nash(6M$), Miles (6M$), Person(minimum). Probably more likely Dampier for 7, Nash for 7 and Bowen for 4.
 
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elindholm

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Looks like Ford expects Marion, Jacobsen and #7

If McGrady stays healthy and straightens out his attitude, that's a hell of a deal for Phoenix.
 

thegrahamcrackr

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elindholm said:
Looks like Ford expects Marion, Jacobsen and #7

If McGrady stays healthy and straightens out his attitude, that's a hell of a deal for Phoenix.


Even if he remains exactly the same (missing a couple games each year, not the best attitude) it is still an awesome deal.

It would be interesting to see the effect Amare and McGrady would have on each other. Either Amare could get Tmac to kick it in high gear for once, or he might try and kick his ass in the shower.....
 

Chaplin

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I haven't felt this kind of anticipation for the Suns since Penny arrived in Phoenix--hopefully this won't be a false hope though.
 

slinslin

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Getting TMac would probably improve our chances to get Kobe as well by a lot if Kobe is interessted in going to the best team for him. He could play with TMac and Amare hear. The Lakers can't possibly put better players around him even if they trade Shaq.
Remember there was a rumor by Gambo that TMac and Kobe would like to play together.
 

elindholm

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Remember there was a rumor by Gambo that TMac and Kobe would like to play together.

:rolleyes: Here you go again.

Slinslin, someday I'd like to sell you a used car.
 

coloradosun

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JJ or #7

I do think it will come down to the 7th pick or JJ to make the deal work. I would prefer to keep JJ but the Suns could then pick Iguodala with the lottery pick. If this is the case then signing Nash and resigning McDyess may make some sense as well to add some experience.

Nash
Iguodala
T-Mac
Amare
McDyess

The Suns never seem to draft UofA talent but in this case it may ease the pain of losing JJ.

I hope we can sell the Magic on the idea of having Gordon and Okafor together is a greater benefit than demanding JJ.
 

elindholm

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They are also reporting that Mark Cuban would be willing to give Dirk Nowitzki in a deal with the Lakers for Shaquille O'Neal.

I don't think that's a surprise. Nowitzki hasn't shown he can get it done in the playoffs, so I can't imagine that the Mavericks consider him an untouchable. The question to me is what the Lakers would want with Nowitzki. They, better than anyone else, know how soft he is.

And I'm guessing that the Lakers would rather have Jamison than Walker. Jamison is on a long contract and probably overpaid, but not by much, and he has shown that he can be either a first option or a role player without complaining. In Lakerland, that's a big deal.

My hunch is a three-way with Orlando in which Nowitzki goes to the Magic and Okafor goes to the Lakers. I'm not sure how all of the details will work out, though.
 

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Below is the trade talk with the Suns to Orlando.
-----------------------------------
Monday, June 21, 2004

By Chad Ford
ESPN Insider

Has there ever been a weekend where three of the league's top five stars all began packing their bags at the same time? Shaquille O'Neal wants a trade. So does Tracy McGrady. Kobe Bryant is opting out. If that isn't enough to make you renew your Insider subscription, we're not sure what is.
Insider was on the phone with numerous league sources over the weekend. Here's the scuttle on where Shaq, T-Mac and Kobe might land in the next month.

Shaq to Big D?
Shaquille O'Neal's demand to be traded has less to do with Kobe than it does with his desire to tack an extra two years, $60 million onto his current contract, which has two years left. Sources told Insider that owner Jerry Buss doesn't even want to discuss such a large extension. That decision, not the end of the Phil Jackson tenure, prompted Shaq to demand a trade. Shaq knows his window to cash in one last time is closing. He's 32 now and will be 34 when his contract is up. Does anyone believe Shaq can get that type of extension two years from now? It's now or never, which is why Shaq wants to be traded to a team willing to cut the check.
Sources claim the Lakers don't really want to trade Shaq but are willing to move him if they can get a young superstar plus cap relief for next summer in return. Four teams look like they could be possible trading partners for the Lakers.

Option 1: The Pacers aren't parting with Jermaine O'Neal. A combo of Al Harrington and Ron Artest might make the Lakers notice, but having to swallow the contracts of Scot Pollard and Austin Croshere as part of the deal make it less desirable. But would Donnie Walsh & Co. really be willing to break up the team for Shaq? And would the owners be willing to commit the extra $60 million to keep the big fella happy?


Option 2: The Grizzlies could combine Pau Gasol, Bonzi Wells, Bo Outlaw and Lorenzen Wright to create a package that would work a bit better for the Lakers. Wells and Outlaw come off the books next season, freeing up significant cap room. But this is a potential straight-up Gasol-for-Shaq deal. Is that enough value to get back for Shaq? The Grizzlies probably would be willing to do the extension. Jerry West has been searching for a dominant big man since he got to Memphis, and we all know that he has a great relationship with Shaq.

Option 3: The Blazers also could put together a package of Theo Ratliff, Damon Stoudamire, Zach Randolph and the No. 13 pick in the draft for Shaq. Stoudamire comes off the books next year, Randolph was the Most Improved Player of the Year at the four, and Ratliff is still one of the best shot-blockers in the league. Paul Allen wouldn't hesitate to spend the cash for Shaq. But if the Blazers give up this much for Shaq, will they have enough players around him to win a title?

Option 4: That leaves us with the Mavericks. Reports out of Dallas claim owner Mark Cuban would give up anyone on his roster, with the exception of Dirk Nowitzki, for Shaq. That's bull. A source in Dallas told Insider over the weekend that the Mavericks absolutely would be willing to give up Nowitzki and Antoine Walker for Shaq. The Mavs aren't going to win a championship without a real presence in the middle. No one else they have can command a decent big man back in a trade. This is Cuban's best chance to win a championship. Nowitzki is a high price to pay, but it's worth it. The Mavs would field a team that still had Steve Nash (they'd re-sign him for sure, to play with Shaq), Michael Finley, Josh Howard and Antawn Jamison. Put Shaq in the middle, and it's the best team in the NBA -- more formidable, in my mind, than the team the Lakers fielded this year. Even if Shaq only plays well for two more seasons, a real shot at a championship is worth the risk.
Would the Lakers bite on any of those options? The trade with Dallas makes the most sense by far. The Lakers add a young versatile All-Star forward to work with Kobe. They clear Walker's $14.5 million salary off the books next summer. Given that Gary Payton, Rick Fox and Derek Fisher also will be gone in a year, the Lakers would be looking at $10 million-plus to use in the 2005 free agent market. The Lakers have had zero trouble recruiting free agents in the past. With a core of Kobe and Nowitzki, the Lakers can salvage their team and their image. All of the other options leave the Lakers struggling for credibility.
It's a deal made in Mark Cuban heaven. Don't be shocked if Cuban and Buss pull the trigger.

Kobe back to L.A.?

Kobe has opted out of his deal and likely will take his time deciding where he wants to play next year. Sources close to Bryant told Insider over the weekend that his first choice still is to remain a Laker. The same sources contend Bryant had little to do with the Lakers' break-up. Buss was balking at the huge amounts of money Jackson ($10 million per season) and Shaq (two-year, $60-million extension) were demanding. That precipitated, more than anything else, the decision to let Jackson walk and to consider trading Shaq.
What does that have to do with Kobe? He wants to explore his options, but he's inclined to re-sign with the Lakers as long as he's sure the team still has the necessary pieces to win. He's loyal to L.A., but not if that means being part of a long rebuilding process. If Shaq comes back, the Lakers will be contenders again, regardless of the supporting cast around him. If Shaq is traded, it's much less clear. A deal with a team like Dallas would keep the Lakers relevant. Other trades, like ones the Pacers or Grizzlies might offer, probably mean the Lakers would take a step back for a few years.
With at least one championship contender, the Spurs, clearing enough cap room to make a run Kobe, the Lakers will have serious competition for his services.

T-Mac to the Clippers?

Shaq leaving. Kobe staying. What, you ask, does T-Mac have to do with all of this? He reportedly has told friends his ultimate desire is to play with Shaq. That's not going to happen in L.A. T-Mac has looked to Dallas as a possible destination. Unless the Magic are willing to swallow an equally bad contract in return -- and they're not -- it just doesn't make sense. They'd want Nowitzki for T-Mac the same way the Lakers would for Shaq. It's one or the other.
McGrady may be controlling the process -- no team will trade for him without a guarantee he'll sign an extension -- but the Magic are partners too. They don't have to trade McGrady right now. T-Mac wants out and knows he has to work with the Magic to make it happen. Where will he land?

Option 1: The Rockets are rumored to be in the lead, offering a combo of Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley and Kelvin Cato for McGrady and Juwan Howard. That sounds like a fantasy trade that every other owner would veto. We know John Weisbrod is a hockey guy, but even he should know this is a terrible deal for the Magic. If the Rockets pull this off, pencil them into the Western Conference Finals.

Option 2: The Pacers want to get something done but aren't giving up Ron Artest, Al Harrington, Jonathan Bender and Jamaal Tinsley for T-Mac. It's just too much. The deal would be Harrington and either Artest or Bender. That's as far as they're willing to go. The team doesn't really want to trade either Artest or Bender, and they certainly won't ship away both players -- even for T-Mac. Add Harrington and Bender to a front court with Emeka Okafor, and the Magic could be set for a long time. They'd have to seriously consider it.

Option 3: The Suns are willing to give up Shawn Marion, Casey Jacobsen and either the No. 7 or Joe Johnson for T-Mac. Marion is an all-star caliber small forward. With the No. 7 pick, the team could land a top-notch point guard like Devin Harris, Ben Gordon or Shaun Livingston. Jacobsen is serviceable at the two. Put that together with the No. 1 pick -- an Okafor/Gordon reunion, perhaps? -- and the Magic would be back in the playoffs almost immediately.

Option 4: The Clippers may have the best package to offer, but would T-Mac play there? One source close to McGrady told Insider he'd "consider it." Why? Because the huge media market would make his endorsement opportunities much more lucrative. The Clippers also would have a pretty strong starting group with Elton Brand, McGrady, Chris Kaman, a re-signed Quentin Richardson and Marko Jaric. The team would be willing to give up Corey Maggette, Chris Wilcox and the No. 2 to get McGrady. That's a slam dunk for the Magic, who could draft Okafor and either Dwight Howard or Shaun Livingston to make one of the best young teams in the NBA. If McGrady believes the Clippers will keep spending, it would be an opportunity he'd have to consider. It may be the only way the Clippers are willing to do the trade.
Which way will the Magic go? The Suns, Clippers and Pacers all look like they could make offers that might make Weisbrod pull the trigger. Some of it will come down to T-Mac's preference. He wants to play in Houston, but the Rockets' offer isn't close to those of the other three teams. At the end of the day, I see either the Suns or Clippers landing him.
 

elindholm

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I do think it will come down to the 7th pick or JJ to make the deal work. I would prefer to keep JJ but the Suns could then pick Iguodala with the lottery pick.

I also would prefer to keep Johnson than the #7, even though I'm not exactly a big Johnson fan. The thing we know about Johnson is that he definitely can hold down the role of NBA starter, and he might even occasionally look good doing it. With the #7 in this draft, that's a much shakier proposition. The player you get might turn out to be solid, but equally likely could be a total bust.

McGrady for Marion, Johnson, and Jacobsen is a close call, but I think I would say no. And it's not clear what the Magic would want with three wing players anyway. After all, they'd still have Grant Hill. :p
 
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