McRoberts bolting Duke for the NBA

[Southpaw]

After years of this my thoughts are coaches should stay out of this forecasting altogether.

 

[Lars the Red]

Russ, let me just ask you a question. Do you know for a fact where a kid is going to get drafted? Don't we always have guys who fall like rocks for no apparent reason, and guys who soar to spots they shouldn't be in? There might have been some guys who saw the kid as a first rounder, and some as coach K mentioned, that saw him as a second rounder? And if K didn't think the kid was ready, relayed that opinion to ma (which didn't matter to her), then wouldn't it have been really a true statement? Couple that with the fact he thought he was doing them and himself a favor by allowing the kid to mature and get another year of education.

The jobs stuff you speak of is pretty common place.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ, let me just ask you a question. Do you know for a fact where a kid is going to get drafted? Don't we always have guys who fall like rocks for no apparent reason, and guys who soar to spots they shouldn't be in? There might have been some guys who saw the kid as a first rounder, and some as coach K mentioned, that saw him as a second rounder? And if K didn't think the kid was ready, relayed that opinion to ma (which didn't matter to her), then wouldn't it have been really a true statement? Couple that with the fact he thought he was doing them and himself a favor by allowing the kid to mature and get another year of education.

The jobs stuff you speak of is pretty common place.

Sure but usually when a kid is hearing that, it's from agents, or friends, or tv announcers, not from NBA Gm's. The whole point of getting coaches involved is they can call NBA GM's and ask for their opinions and the assumption is when you get closer to the draft, you'll have an accurate idea. There's always a kid like Randolph Morris who will ignore all that expert advice and stay in the draft(and then get a gift from the NCAA that ultimately led to his signign as a FA with the Knicks the other day), some people are going to be stupid.

But I do recall on a mail list I'm on at that time we were all talking about that draft and how Avery was gone because he'd said if he was a first rounder he was gone and there was just no way he wasn't going in the first round. That was a very guard heavy draft early with Steve Francis, Baron Davis, Andre Miller, Jason Terry but it was very clear that Avery was going to be a first rounder, there just weren't a lot of good players in that draft outside of the top 15 or so.

Can I prove Coach K lied to him and his mother no, do I have any reason to believe he and his mother made the whole thing up, no. Why would they, he was picked in the first round, he got his guaranteed contract, he got what he wanted. Her comments and his didn't come about 2 years later when he was bombing out of the NBA and wishing he'd stayed in school, they came out about not long after he was drafted. He had no reason to be mad at Coach K because he got his wish, seems to me he had very little reason to lie about it.

On that mailing list there are several Duke fans and to a man they all side with Coach K there on Avery, that if he did lie to him it was because he thought it was best for avery. I just don't buy that the whole point of asking your coach for input is to give you access to better information, if your coach is going to lie to you it defeats the whole purpose.

 

[Southpaw]

Sure but usually when a kid is hearing that, it's from agents, or friends, or tv announcers, not from NBA Gm's. The whole point of getting coaches involved is they can call NBA GM's and ask for their opinions and the assumption is when you get closer to the draft, you'll have an accurate idea. There's always a kid like Randolph Morris who will ignore all that expert advice and stay in the draft(and then get a gift from the NCAA that ultimately led to his signign as a FA with the Knicks the other day), some people are going to be stupid.

But I do recall on a mail list I'm on at that time we were all talking about that draft and how Avery was gone because he'd said if he was a first rounder he was gone and there was just no way he wasn't going in the first round. That was a very guard heavy draft early with Steve Francis, Baron Davis, Andre Miller, Jason Terry but it was very clear that Avery was going to be a first rounder, there just weren't a lot of good players in that draft outside of the top 15 or so.

Can I prove Coach K lied to him and his mother no, do I have any reason to believe he and his mother made the whole thing up, no. Why would they, he was picked in the first round, he got his guaranteed contract, he got what he wanted. Her comments and his didn't come about 2 years later when he was bombing out of the NBA and wishing he'd stayed in school, they came out about not long after he was drafted. He had no reason to be mad at Coach K because he got his wish, seems to me he had very little reason to lie about it.

On that mailing list there are several Duke fans and to a man they all side with Coach K there on Avery, that if he did lie to him it was because he thought it was best for avery. I just don't buy that the whole point of asking your coach for input is to give you access to better information, if your coach is going to lie to you it defeats the whole purpose.

The coach may be the worst source for unbiased info. I don't understand why a coach should have allegiance to a player who just wants to bolt. If I were a coach, I wouldn't do it. But I ain't.

 

[Skkorpion]

Of Wally and Mao

As an aside, the new FB coach at U of Miami, Randy Shannon, has taken an historic stance on incoming players. He has said that he does not want players who come to Miami to showcase their perceived talents to the NFL. Too many player have been caught up in the mindset that their visit to the college is just a pit stop to the NFL and their priorities are NFL first, look good second, and win a game, conference, and NC are way down the list. Maybe Duke is suffering the same syndrome. Pit stop players, who destroy programs.

I pulled Wally's quote off another thread because it deserves more attention.

I think Randy Shannon is right to try to reclaim the Miami program from the players. He may fail but I commend him for trying. Miami will always have great players, there is just so much talent in Florida.

When Mike Stoops blew his cool after getting screwed over by kids who had committed to him, he too mentioned he wanted players who really wanted to be at Arizona, not just guys looking for their best deal.

Both these young guys get it and in the long run, I think they will be proven right by success. At least I hope so.

(Edit - I was trying to start a separate thred. Sorry)

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Duke isn't suffering from players leaving too early, the Blue Devils are struggling because their players despite the lofty HS praise are not as good as North Carolina and a few other teams in the ACC. The majority of their 2003-2005 classes were busts and the guys who are playing (specifically DeMarcus Nelson, McRoberts, and Paulus) are too soft or not good enough to take the load themselves so they are having trouble replacing four year impact guys in Sheldon Williams and JJ Redick. They'll need some freshman to step up next year if they are going to be an contending team.

Maybe Coach K is past his prime?

 

[Russ Smith]

Duke isn't suffering from players leaving too early, the Blue Devils are struggling because their players despite the lofty HS praise are not as good as North Carolina and a few other teams in the ACC. The majority of their 2003-2005 classes were busts and the guys who are playing (specifically DeMarcus Nelson, McRoberts, and Paulus) are too soft or not good enough to take the load themselves so they are having trouble replacing four year impact guys in Sheldon Williams and JJ Redick. They'll need some freshman to step up next year if they are going to be an contending team.

Maybe Coach K is past his prime?

They've lost guys like Deng, and Shaun Livingston of course but neither of them was a 4 year recruit when they took them although at the time they didn't see Livingston jumping straight to the NBA.

But i agree a big problem has been a lot of "busts" or guys not panning out. Just recently you have ASU and Cal both getting transfers who weren't playing at Duke and left. Pocius has been a disappointment too, even this year henderson and Lance Thomas were disappointing this year.

I think that's why Coach K took Taylor King despite his stock having fallen quite a bit from when he was younger and originally committed to UCLA. I think K realized he needed to take a shot on a higher risk higher reward player like King who may not fit the duke mindset(pass the ball and play defense) but who can flat out shoot the ball.

Nolan Smith will be good and everything I've heard of Singler says he'll be very good, but Duke is going to be very soft inside again unless Zoubek steps up. their best defender inside left right now is McClure who's 6'6".

Losing Boateng and Boykin hurts them even if they weren't producing because they have to replace them were freshman.