MCU: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier (Disney+)

[Stout]

I don't think the first half was a slog at all. I quite enjoyed the 1st episode and would put it on the same level as episodes 4 & 5. The only issue I've had, and I think why the first half was viewed as slow by some, is that the villains were poorly defined early on and there didn't seem to be big enough stakes at play to push the narrative forward. Had Sam meant with Carly earlier then I doubt there would be any complaints of the show dragging along because at least then the conflict at the center of the series would have been better defined.

Nothing in the first three episodes compares to episode 4. Episode 5 was good, but considering how wasteful the first 3 episodes were with the limited time, there just wasn't time for a slow, developmental episode. It's like the writers were told they had a 10-episode run, then went crazy with uber-slow character development in episodes 1-3. And I mean slooooooooooooow. Didn't help that there were tons of pointless action sequences. Why did we jump out and fight on top of trucks again?

I was gung-ho for this series, but it's been a lot of ho-hum for me. Picked up big time at episode 4, but the first 3 were mostly write-offs. If this is a 1-season series to set the movies up and nothing more, I'm going to be upset and will like as not want to stop watching a lot of Marvel stuff. One of the things that made Punisher and Jessica Jones better was knowing you weren't going to get jerked around like that.

 

[Covert Rain]

We've covered this already, jesus.

It's basically a giant movie in six parts. You have to "slog" through the setup before you can get to the exciting conclusion.

I personally enjoyed all the "slog" through the character exploration and backstory that expanded the MCU during the first parts, but that's me.

Huh? I am sorry was there some mythical discussion on the topic you took part in that I am unaware of before these last few posts? Who exactly doesn't realize it's a 6 part story?

I don't care if it's a movie, mini-series or full blown TV series. What separates great from OK is the overall cohesiveness of said story, the pacing and the consistency through said story regardless of format. I don't care what format you are using the plot has to move along. The first 3 practically did nothing to move the plot along. I agree with Stout. It was almost as if they thought they had a 10 episode run and wrote the first 3 episodes that way.

This wasn't a "new world". This was the existing world with characters we were already familiar with. Don't get me wrong, diving a little into Sam's background wasn't a negative. However, I think we could have gotten the same level of "development" in an episode or episode in a half max. I mean other than a throwaway line of "one world" even the bad guys motivation wasn't clear as mud until episode 4. Marvel doesn't just write these for the hardcore, they write these for general audiences who are not comic book readers.

Again to be clear, I am not saying this has been a BAD series. Just a mixed bag and disappointing 1st half. I have thought the last 2 episodes have been damn good. Especially, the conversation that Sam had with Karli. It was the most significant dialogue through 4 episodes that moved the plot along. In fact, had that conversation happened by Episode 2, it might have changed how I felt about the entire 1st half.

 

[carrrnuttt]

Huh? I am sorry was there some mythical discussion on the topic you took part in that I am unaware of before these last few posts? Who exactly doesn't realize it's a 6 part story?

I'll reserve judgement until it all comes together.

I liken this to a VERY long movie in six parts, kind of like how the Snyder Cut turned out to be.

BTW, for for those that don't follow Marvel Comics, possible spoiler for Lt. Torres:

Spoiler

In the comics, he becomes Falcon 2.0 after Falcon takes up the mantle of Cpt. America.

 

[Covert Rain]

Your comment made it sound like we went over the first 3 episodes in some discussion/debate. People had made comments but not much of a discussion until the latest posts.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What I do give the series credit for is getting into some pretty sticky material as far as racial issues in our country and how we see our “heroes” or want to see our heroes. I know the Isiah Bradley character is from the comics, but the Marvel movies are too much of a four quadrant thing to ever dive into that kind of thing, much like they never dove into Tony’s alcoholism storyline.

my only complaint there is I wish they had dipped their toe deeper into those waters to explore that angle of the story, but I realize this isn’t a Barry Jenkins, Spike Lee, Ava Duvernay show on premium cable. Although... they did really let Ryan Coogler do some pretty deep poo in Black Panther... which is why I think that movie stood out so much above the normal MCU.

 

[Covert Rain]

What I do give the series credit for is getting into some pretty sticky material as far as racial issues in our country and how we see our “heroes” or want to see our heroes. I know the Isiah Bradley character is from the comics, but the Marvel movies are too much of a four quadrant thing to ever dive into that kind of thing, much like they never dove into Tony’s alcoholism storyline.

my only complaint there is I wish they had dipped their toe deeper into those waters to explore that angle of the story, but I realize this isn’t a Barry Jenkins, Spike Lee, Ava Duvernay show on premium cable. Although... they did really let Ryan Coogler do some pretty deep **** in Black Panther... which is why I think that movie stood out so much above the normal MCU.

Not only the race thing but the Bucky redemption arc as well. That's they irony in thinking well the first 3 episodes were more about character development. They only touched on the race thing with Sam. In terms of the redemption it's a good topic as well. Think about all the people that a hurt by others and what it would take to actually apologize and make a difference in their lives in terms of redemption. Both themes that could have been much better explored.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Not only the race thing but the Bucky redemption arc as well. That's they irony in thinking well the first 3 episodes were more about character development. They only touched on the race thing with Sam. In terms of the redemption it's a good topic as well. Think about all the people that a hurt by others and what it would take to actually apologize and make a difference in their lives in terms of redemption. Both themes that could have been much better explored.

yeah... Bucky’s arc has kinda fallen off a cliff.

I actually think the biggest problem with this show is that Falcon And Winter Soldier just weren’t written as all that compelling characters in the first place. In really like Anthony Mackie as an actor so he makes Falcon likable in his own, but he’s a character who just hasn’t been written with much depth and Bucky is just a non entity, as far as I’m concerned.

I thought Marvel faced the same problem going into WandaVision, but they had such an out of the box hook that immediately sucked me in while Wanda herself was the conflict which made the show interesting week to week and got me into her character more and more. That said, I thought it kinda ended with a whimper, whereas this series started a bit with a whimper and is positioned to end with a bang. I hope it does.

Overall, I think from a conceptual standpoint, this was a great way for Falcon to become Cap. just think the execution of it has been a mixed bag.

 

[WaywardFan]

End credits scene.

 

[Stout]

This was an adequate finale. Nothing special, but they did wrap everything up while leaving dangling arcs. I do hate what they did with one character, though we saw it coming. A tarnishing of a legacy that I hope will have a great redemption arc in later shows/movies.

 

[Hoop Head]

This was an adequate finale. Nothing special, but they did wrap everything up while leaving dangling arcs. I do hate what they did with one character, though we saw it coming. A tarnishing of a legacy that I hope will have a great redemption arc in later shows/movies.

Are you referring to

Spoiler

Sharon Carter as the Power Broker? If so, I didn't like that but saw it headed that way in episode 5. That was disappointing but it can be forgiven if they start using her more. She hasn't really done anything that bad so a redemption arc isn't that necessary but they should explain the reasoning behind it.

 

[WaywardFan]

Agreed on all fronts.

 

[Hoop Head]

I really liked the new outfit Sam gets. Not going to bother putting that behind a spoiler tag because it was clear as day that's what Bucky gave him in the case from the Wakandans in episode 5.

I'm going to try and binge the series in whole next weekend to see how it plays as a long story altogether. I think it'll improve it some but I really enjoyed the whole journey through this. 6 episodes was just right. Maybe it could have been condensed into 5 but when it comes to comic book/super hero stuff I think too much is better than not enough.

 

[Stout]

Are you referring to

Spoiler

Sharon Carter as the Power Broker? If so, I didn't like that but saw it headed that way in episode 5. That was disappointing but it can be forgiven if they start using her more. She hasn't really done anything that bad so a redemption arc isn't that necessary but they should explain the reasoning behind it.

Yep.

 

[crisper57]

The series was about the two titular characters Leaving behind their old personas. By the end of this one takes up a new mantle. But the other seemingly having escaped his past as well, still gets referred to as his old code name.

 

[carrrnuttt]

I'm calling it now:

Spoiler: Sharon Carter...

...is not Sharon Carter, but a Skrull. This will lead right into Secret Invasion.

 

[crisper57]

I'm calling it now:

Spoiler: Sharon Carter...

...is not Sharon Carter, but a Skrull. This will lead right into Secret Invasion.

Spoiler

A Skrull shifting to Sharon Carter, using human tech to look like an old man in that initial scene. That is legit a deep, deep detail to include to throw us off the scent!

 

[carrrnuttt]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Nice wrap in the sixth episode.

 

[Chaplin]

Spoiler

A Skrull shifting to Sharon Carter, using human tech to look like an old man in that initial scene. That is legit a deep, deep detail to include to throw us off the scent!

I hope so because that was by far the worst part of the series. Besides not making any sense, the character isn’t interesting enough to care about.

 

[carrrnuttt]

BTW, I just found out today that there was very likely a whole storyline that was cut from the show involving a virus that made some stuff seem disjointed. Here's one of the articles about it: https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulta...ssibly-cut-pandemic-plotline/?sh=74979dc26638

Well, if you believe whispers that have been going on for well over a year now, it’s because the pandemic allegedly forced the original storyline of Falcon and the Winter Soldier to be chopped up and rewritten and maybe even parts of it reshot. Why? Because once upon a time, there was going to be an actual terrorist-spread pandemic as a main part of the storyline.

Also mentioned here: https://www.empireonline.com/tv/features/falcon-winter-soldier-mcu-endgame-was-worth-it/

Rumours that a plot about a deadly virus were cut and patched around in the wake of the pandemic remain uncommented on for now, but would go some way to explaining why those scenes often felt so disconnected – as well as clarifying the dangling questions around Mama Donya’s death and a mention in early episodes of the Flag Smashers stealing vaccines.

 

[Stout]

BTW, I just found out today that there was very likely a whole storyline that was cut from the show involving a virus that made some stuff seem disjointed. Here's one of the articles about it: https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulta...ssibly-cut-pandemic-plotline/?sh=74979dc26638



Also mentioned here: https://www.empireonline.com/tv/features/falcon-winter-soldier-mcu-endgame-was-worth-it/

Curious.