Miami Herald: A WIN-WIN DEAL

[George O'Brien]

A Win Win Deal

A recently reported rumor had the Suns and Magic talking about a trade that would send Tracy McGrady to the Phoenix Suns for Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion and Phoenix's No. 1 pick, which will likely be a late lottery selection.

The Suns, though, are reportedly not willing to give up both Johnson and Marion in such a trade. But why not? This trade would do wonders for both franchises, regardless of how many pieces the Suns are giving up.

The Magic would have several key pieces in place, including Marion, Johnson and Juwan Howard, and the team would have two lottery picks. If the Magic, the team with the league's worst record this season, can land, say, Connecticut's Emeka Okafor and Wisconsin's Devin Harris in the draft, that would give Orlando a mostly young and tremendously talented starting five to compete in a relatively weak Southeast Division.

The Suns, on the other hand, would have two superstars around which any team would love to build. McGrady and Amare Stoudemire would be a bigger, better version of Stephon Marbury and Kevin Garnett -- and those two were supposed to win titles together in Minnesota.

With Leandro Barbosa at point guard, Casey Jacobsen at shooting guard, McGrady at small forward, Stoudemire at power forward, any big stiff at center and a decent defensive scheme, the Suns already would be better than the Rockets and Grizzlies, both playoff teams this season.

If they like the deal, then the Suns would be giving up too much.

 

[elindholm]

Casey Jacobsen will never be the starting SG on a playoff team. The very notion is absurd.

 

[George O'Brien]

Casey Jacobsen will never be the starting SG on a playoff team. The very notion is absurd.

Sure, he will start for the Magic when the Suns substitute him for JJ and the Magic get into the playoffs with 35 wins.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Interesting that Amare has already attained superstar status in Orlando.

 

[Assface]

Interesting that Amare has already attained superstar status in Orlando.

He's Orlando's favorite son right now. He was the talk of the town leading up to that draft.

 

[George O'Brien]

I suspect that Amare will be a major media star once the Olympics get going. We know he has holes in his game and a ways to develop into the player he will one day he will become, it is hard to find a more dynamic inside player. By fall, he could be a real phenomenon.

 

[F-Dog]

Any sportswriter who addresses this rumor, without even mentioning that McGrady can opt out after this year, is an idiot.


Once we've established that, who cares what his opinion is of Casey Jacobsen?

 

[moviebuff316]

If Suns got Mcgrady.. they would have to sign a SF or trade for one.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

If Suns got Mcgrady.. they would have to sign a SF or trade for one.

McGrady plays SF a lot of the time. Whent he magic had Mike Miller, I am pretty sure that is all he played.

Assuming that the suns will refuse to give up JJ in the deal, then we could play TMAC at the 3, JJ at the 2 and Barbosa or Vujanic at the 1.

Even if we gave up JJ, we could put Barbosa and Vujanic in the starting backcourt, since most people think Vujanic is more of a 2g at this point anyways.

 

[Joe Mama]

McGrady plays SF a lot of the time. Whent he magic had Mike Miller, I am pretty sure that is all he played.

Assuming that the suns will refuse to give up JJ in the deal, then we could play TMAC at the 3, JJ at the 2 and Barbosa or Vujanic at the 1.

Even if we gave up JJ, we could put Barbosa and Vujanic in the starting backcourt, since most people think Vujanic is more of a 2g at this point anyways.

I don't think the Phoenix Suns will agree to the deal where they have to get up both Shawn Marion and JJ to get McGrady.

There's no way Barbosa and Vujanic could be the starting backcourt on any NBA team that expected to stop the other team from scoring.

Joe Mama

 

[Ryanwb]

If the Suns hold their guns and not include JJ in any deal the magic will be forced to relent. Getting Marion probably the best ROI they are going to get and I think the Suns know this.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I don't think the Phoenix Suns will agree to the deal where they have to get up both Shawn Marion and JJ to get McGrady.

There's no way Barbosa and Vujanic could be the starting backcourt on any NBA team that expected to stop the other team from scoring.

Joe Mama

I don't think they will send both either, which is why I said assuming. However, I will acknowledge there is the possibility of it.

To be honest, we dont know how a Barbosa/Vujanic backcourt would do. I would bet they wouldnt be near the top in defense, but I do not think they would be horrible. I dont watch many Houston games, but would they be worse off than Mobley/Francis?

For example, if Amare picks up his defensive intensity (or the suns go after a big man with the FA money they will have), both of those players could afford to play aggresively and go for more steals if they know someone is patrolling the paint behind them.

It wouldn't be the ideal starting backcourt, but it wouldnt be horrible. Especially if we assume TMAC could guard their best wing player (as long as he isnt a speedy midget).

 

[JCSunsfan]

If the Suns hold their guns and not include JJ in any deal the magic will be forced to relent. Getting Marion probably the best ROI they are going to get and I think the Suns know this.

Bingo.

Especially if Phoenix is where T-Mac wants to be.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If Suns got Mcgrady.. they would have to sign a SF or trade for one.

I think this is why the Suns want to hang on to JJ. T-Mac and JJ can both play 2 or 3.

I still think the Suns brass is very high on Zarko, and consider him a potential starter at the 3 down the road.

In some situations, Lampe could play the 3.

 

[Chaplin]

I still think the Suns brass is very high on Zarko, and consider him a potential starter at the 3 down the road.

There hasn't been any evidence whatsoever before or after the injury that management believes Z to be a starter. If they were certain they were going to keep Shawn Marion, and he's DEFINITELY a starting 3, why would they draft Z thinking that he's starter material? That definitely was not a need, and still isn't. But if he was drafted for depth, well, then, that makes more sense, and it doesn't overrate him like you are doing.

 

[George O'Brien]

I think this is why the Suns want to hang on to JJ. T-Mac and JJ can both play 2 or 3.

JJ was the Sun's best perimeter defender over the last two years. They can't afford to get any worse on defense.

I still think the Suns brass is very high on Zarko, and consider him a potential starter at the 3 down the road.

Down the road might be a while. He is not a very good defender, he is too weak, and does not attack the boards on defense. At this point his more of a "project" than a key piece. If the Suns upgrade their guard position, I suspect that Casey may end up playing at SF ahead of Zarko.

In some situations, Lampe could play the 3.

I can't see Lampe being able to defend most SF's.

 

[JCSunsfan]

But if he was drafted for depth, well, then, that makes more sense, and it doesn't overrate him like you are doing.

C'mon Chap, calling a guy a "potential starter down the road" is hardly overrating ANY decent young NBA player.

You're the one that threw "definitely" in there, not me.

 

[Chaplin]

C'mon Chap, calling a guy a "potential starter down the road" is hardly overrating ANY decent young NBA player.

You're the one that threw "definitely" in there, not me.

Maybe so, but you are still overrating him. IF we were looking for someone who might be a starter in the future, why did we draft a SF, when we have a young SF already in that position, signed to a long-term contract?

There were plenty of guys available that were "potential starters" at our pick, but who weren't Small Forwards.

 

[Joe Mama]

Maybe so, but you are still overrating him. IF we were looking for someone who might be a starter in the future, why did we draft a SF, when we have a young SF already in that position, signed to a long-term contract?

There were plenty of guys available that were "potential starters" at our pick, but who weren't Small Forwards.

I'm sorry. I don't understand the reasoning here at all. They drafted Cabarkapa because they liked him better than the other guys that were left on the board. They drafted him as a backup forward, but that doesn't mean they don't also think that he is a "potential starter". In fact the Colangelos were very high on Cabarkapa. Last season they believed he was going to be a key to their success, and they told Frank Johnson to start using him more. He was contributing as soon as he got significant minutes.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

I'm sorry. I don't understand the reasoning here at all. They drafted Cabarkapa because they liked him better than the other guys that were left on the board. They drafted him as a backup forward, but that doesn't mean they don't also think that he is a "potential starter". In fact the Colangelos were very high on Cabarkapa. Last season they believed he was going to be a key to their success, and they told Frank Johnson to start using him more. He was contributing as soon as he got significant minutes.

Joe Mama

Before we get too carried away here, Carbakapa was drafted to replace the position of Dan Langi - a tall backup SF who could shoot and maybe defend really tall opposing SF. Langi didn't work out, but the Suns did not give up trying.

Zarko is supposedly working out with Lampe and Barbosa down at AWA. I hope he is joining Lampe in the weight room because he will not be much help until he gets a lot stronger. But if he does get stronger (and hopefully learns to move his feet on defense), he could contribute a lot by playing against really tall SF's.

 

[Joe Mama]

Before we get too carried away here, Carbakapa was drafted to replace the position of Dan Langi - a tall backup SF who could shoot and maybe defend really tall opposing SF. Langi didn't work out, but the Suns did not give up trying.

Zarko is supposedly working out with Lampe and Barbosa down at AWA. I hope he is joining Lampe in the weight room because he will not be much help until he gets a lot stronger. But if he does get stronger (and hopefully learns to move his feet on defense), he could contribute a lot by playing against really tall SF's.

I'm sorry George, but it just don't believe that is true. Cabarkapa was not drafted as a replacement for anybody. The Suns, especially the Colangelos, were talking about him as a big part of the team since they drafted him. After the summer league games they were even higher on him. They were talking about playing Shawn Marion, Cabarkapa, and Amare Stoudemire in the frontcourt together. Clearly he was drafted to be one of the first people off the bench and possibly an occasional starter. Like I said before, he may have been drafted as a backup player, but that doesn't mean the Colangelos don't consider him a "possible starter".

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

First of all, I love the image of the Suns brass sitting around the draft table in 2003 saying, "Okay, we're going to lose Dan Langhi. How do we replace him?"

But more to the point, the Suns had Clifford Robinson installed as their starting SF when they drafted Marion. (The other "projected" starters, if memory serves, were Kidd, Hardaway, Gugliotta, and Longley.) Most people on this board contend that the Suns usually make BPA draft choices, so it only stands to reason that sometimes they'll draft a "potential starter" at a position where they already have someone good.

 

[Chaplin]

Before we get too carried away here, Carbakapa was drafted to replace the position of Dan Langi - a tall backup SF who could shoot and maybe defend really tall opposing SF. Langi didn't work out, but the Suns did not give up trying.

You don't actually believe that, do you?

 

[Chaplin]

But more to the point, the Suns had Clifford Robinson installed as their starting SF when they drafted Marion. (The other "projected" starters, if memory serves, were Kidd, Hardaway, Gugliotta, and Longley.) Most people on this board contend that the Suns usually make BPA draft choices, so it only stands to reason that sometimes they'll draft a "potential starter" at a position where they already have someone good.

That's a good point, BUT, Cliff was also old and we knew that Marion had a good chance of taking over the spot in the very near future. That is NOT the case with Z.

 

[Mainstreet]

I guess I'll throw in my two cents about Zarko.

In my opinion, he was drafted by the Suns because he was a very athletically talented big man which he displayed early in the season prior to the Fortson incident. This was reason alone to draft him.

If he can improve his strength, I believe he can be plugged in just about any where along the front frontline, at least for short periods. Unfortunately, after the Fortson incident he never regained his form or confidence so the jury is still out.

Early in the season I still remember his quickness for a big man, ability to get to the basket (especially on the fastbreak), and those huge hands which can one hand the ball.

He has tremendous basketball upside. If he can regain his confidence and works on his physical conditioning, no doubt he can play and play well.