Michael Vick

[LVCARDFREAK]

I dunno. It doesn't seem to me that Texas runs a very sophisticated offense. It seems like Young mostly waits around (behind a great offensive line) for his deep guys to get open, then hucks the ball down field, or takes off. One of the concerns could be whether or not Young can assimilate an NFL offense.

The thing about Vick is that he's so athletic that he's been able to win 2/3 of his games while he figures out the complex West Coast offense.

Ummm sorry Holden McNeil thats flat out untrue. Stand around and wait for recievers to go deep?

"Offensively, the Longhorns have been one of the nation’s most productive groups and among the most successful units in Texas history since Mack Brown and offensive coordinator Greg Davis took over the program three years ago. During that time Texas has produced three of the top 10 total offense seasons and the top three passing seasons in school history.

In the Mack Brown era, Texas’ offense has seen single-season records set in rushing, passing, receiving and scoring. Texas has featured three straight 1,000-yard rushers, three consecutive 2,000-yard passers, three 100-point scorers in a row and the only two 1,000-yard receivers in school history. The Longhorns also have rewritten their freshman record books with rookie standards eclipsed in virtually every passing and receiving category. During the last three seasons, Texas has averaged 432.7 yards of offense per game, 35.5 points per contest and recorded nine of the top 31 total offense games in school history."

I hardley think this is the making of a "stand around and wait for your receivers to go deep" offense

 

[Duckjake]

I dunno. It doesn't seem to me that Texas runs a very sophisticated offense. It seems like Young mostly waits around (behind a great offensive line) for his deep guys to get open, then hucks the ball down field, or takes off. One of the concerns could be whether or not Young can assimilate an NFL offense.

The thing about Vick is that he's so athletic that he's been able to win 2/3 of his games while he figures out the complex West Coast offense.

Until this season Young's favorite target was the TE on shorter routes mainly because Texas had no veteran receivers last year. Because of that this season teams were overplaying the TE so Vince was able to go downfield more often. The reason he can wait is both his Oline and his ability to avoid the rush without having to "run". He's very good at making a guy miss without giving up his position in the pocket.

I remember when Jake used to get pressure forcing him to move he'd immediatley duck his head. That kept him from being able to move while still being able to look downfield. Young stays focused on his receivers while he's making guys miss.

 

[Pariah]

Young could do it. You were saying that Vick needs to learn to scramble to pass instead of run. Vince Young already does that. He stays in the pocket when under pressure and waits until the last minute to jump aside like a matador passing a bull. Darn good at it too.

Could be that he cn. I hope he does--I like him. But, my oint was only that McNair was a passing QB in college in a wide-open offense (I think--I forget actually what that Alcorn State offense looked like exactly).

McNair was a passer coming out of college and Young would have to become that to be another McNair--seems to me Young has made his name with his feet more than with his arm.

I'll defer to you on this one, though. I've only seen a smattering of Texas this year.

 

[kerouac9]

I hardley think this is the making of a "stand around and wait for your receivers to go deep" offense

Nothing that you posted makes me think that Texas doesn't run a simple offense. It's productive, but it seems to me that it's productive because they're way more talented than the Colorados and Kansases of the Big 10. When I watch Texas, I don't see them running an offense like Notre Dame's, or Virginia's, or USC's, which asks the quarterback to do a lot of thinking. It took Chris Simms--what?--three-plus years to go from Mack Brown to an NFL offense, and that was with his pedigree.

I'm not saying he can't do it, I just think it's an item of concern.

 

[Duckjake]

Nothing that you posted makes me think that Texas doesn't run a simple offense. It's productive, but it seems to me that it's productive because they're way more talented than the Colorados and Kansases of the Big 10. When I watch Texas, I don't see them running an offense like Notre Dame's, or Virginia's, or USC's, which asks the quarterback to do a lot of thinking. It took Chris Simms--what?--three-plus years to go from Mack Brown to an NFL offense, and that was with his pedigree.

I'm not saying he can't do it, I just think it's an item of concern.

Texas runs a zone read offense which requires Young to make a decision on whether to keep the ball or hand off to the RB based on what the defensive tackle or end does. It is much more complicated for the linemen than it is for the skill players.

Their passing offense is based on speed receivers going deep and backs and TE's cutting underneath. Young still has to run through progressions and has been very adept at finding the right receiver.

NFL Offenses aren't that sophisticated for the QB. Most of the "sophistication" comes in formations not in some sort of mystical plays that only the best and brightest can figure out. Remember the Macovica play where he went in motion and then stopped right in front of where the Cards were going to run. Really took an MIT graduate to come up with that one.

What takes a QB a year or two to figure out in the NFL is the different looks the defense gives him, reading blitzes, and adjusting to the closing speed of the defensive players.

BTW: Texas,Colorado, and Kansas play in the Big XII. As for the Big 10 Texas beat both Michigan and Ohio State this year.

 

[kerouac9]

Texas runs a zone read offense which requires Young to make a decision on whether to keep the ball or hand off to the RB based on what the defensive tackle or end does. It is much more complicated for the linemen than it is for the skill players.

Their passing offense is based on speed receivers going deep and backs and TE's cutting underneath. Young still has to run through progressions and has been very adept at finding the right receiver.

NFL Offenses aren't that sophisticated for the QB. Most of the "sophistication" comes in formations not in some sort of mystical plays that only the best and brightest can figure out. Remember the Macovica play where he went in motion and then stopped right in front of where the Cards were going to run. Really took an MIT graduate to come up with that one.

What takes a QB a year or two to figure out in the NFL is the different looks the defense gives him, reading blitzes, and adjusting to the closing speed of the defensive players.

BTW: Texas,Colorado, and Kansas play in the Big XII. As for the Big 10 Texas beat both Michigan and Ohio State this year.

If NFL offenses were so easy to figure out, anyone could play QB. Option routes, timing routes, adjusting plays to defenses. You think that Heath Shuler would be as able to play QB as anyone if it were as easy as you're making it out to be.

Cardinal playcalling is hardly the preeminent example of what you look for in the NFL. Texas has been a high-profile program for a really long time. When was the last time they produced a good NFL quarterback? Perhaps Vince Young looks as good as he does because he's surrounded by 6-8 other guys who are going to be playing on Sunday. Do you really want to go back to the same well that's produced Big and Roy Williams (who people on here seem to hate) in the past few years?

 

[Duckjake]

If NFL offenses were so easy to figure out, anyone could play QB. Option routes, timing routes, adjusting plays to defenses. You think that Heath Shuler would be as able to play QB as anyone if it were as easy as you're making it out to be.

Cardinal playcalling is hardly the preeminent example of what you look for in the NFL. Texas has been a high-profile program for a really long time. When was the last time they produced a good NFL quarterback? Perhaps Vince Young looks as good as he does because he's surrounded by 6-8 other guys who are going to be playing on Sunday. Do you really want to go back to the same well that's produced Big and Roy Williams (who people on here seem to hate) in the past few years?

NFL offenses are easy to figure out. It's the defense recognition that's tough. If all it took to play QB in the NFL was handling a complex passing offense then guys like David Klingler and every QB to ever play for Texas Tech or in the Mountain West Conference would be in the Hall of Fame.

As for the guys surrounding Vince Young, while the Oline is full of veterans, there are 3 Sophomores (Limas Sweed, Ramonce Taylor, Billy Pittman) and two freshmen at the other skill positions(Jamaal Charles and Quan Crosby).

Texas hasn't produced QB's because they liked to have some fraternity boy play the position like Major Applewhite or Peter Gardere. Made the rich alums happy.

 

[john h]

Until this season Young's favorite target was the TE on shorter routes mainly because Texas had no veteran receivers last year. Because of that this season teams were overplaying the TE so Vince was able to go downfield more often. The reason he can wait is both his Oline and his ability to avoid the rush without having to "run". He's very good at making a guy miss without giving up his position in the pocket

I remember when Jake used to get pressure forcing him to move he'd immediatley duck his head. That kept him from being able to move while still being able to look downfield. Young stays focused on his receivers while he's making guys miss.

Often a QB looks a lot better than he really is or worse than he is because of the players around him. That is why they have camps prior to the draft and look at film endlessly. Actually this is true for almost all positions. You have to evaluate the team around the player and competition he plays against. We have some outstanding NFL QB's who had the bad luck to be on bad teams for nearly their entire career. Archie Manning was one that stands out. Then again some players are so dominating in college it is almost a no brainer when you draft them. Earl Campbell, Eli Manning, Deion Sanders where can't miss kind of players. Other players we have never heard of emerge as stars as they never received any hype in college. I read recently that an NFL team spends over one million dollars on draft evaluations. They know a players heigth to a 1/100 of an inch and his weight in ounces. They research their backgrounds almost like the FBI. I wonder how we stack up on money spent to evaluate college players against other teams? The draft as is often said is one of the biggest gambles in sports.

 

[Renz]

Vick's line against Chicago:

ATT/COMP YDS TD INT
13/32 122 0 2

Say goodbye to the playoffs, Michael.

 

[CardinalLaw]

Vick's line against Chicago:

ATT/COMP YDS TD INT
13/32 122 0 2

Say goodbye to the playoffs, Michael.

Atleast half of those yards came in Junk time, 45 seconds left down by 13 points junk time, he had his 3rd pick dropped. I think all of them went to one guy Finnerman. Man, Vicks so good.

But man that Bears defense is tuff, I wish we had a good team like the Bears, and Grossman looked great, he really puts some zip on the ball. If only he could stay healthy I think he would be a superstar.