Mike Budenholzer - Officially Suns new Head Coach - NOW FIRED on 4/14/2025

[Hoop Head]

jj woulda been fired with bud

Why do keep ignoring his contract is up? Firing him isn't necessary. Until there's some message about his future, his contract is essentially complete. There is zero need to fire him. Budenholzer had 3-4 years left on his contract.

 

[elindholm]

I don't get how Jones is being blamed for not finding rotation players when all he has to offer is minimum contracts.

 

[Phrazbit]

I guarantee Ishbia is not involved in the FA signings that have failed or all the failed personnel decisions to fill out the roster around the "big three."

Those fumbles have all been on Jones. And we know this because they were the same kind of roster misfires that we had before Ishbia was even the owner.

I doubt that, I think he is heavily involved at every level.

However, even if he isn't, the only thing Jones has to work is the league minimum. Not really sure what minimum contract free agents we should have gotten, most guys are minimum contract dudes for a reason.

Hell, we ALL thought Tyus Jones was a steal...

 

[95pro]

I don't get how Jones is being blamed for not finding rotation players when all he has to offer is minimum contracts.

It’s been two years of minimum guys to fill out the roster.

 

[GatorAZ]

I don't get how Jones is being blamed for not finding rotation players when all he has to offer is minimum contracts.

I remember Eric Gordon saying that Ishbia was the one contacting him directly.

 

[Hoop Head]

It’s been two years of minimum guys to fill out the roster.

And this is 4 years post finals run where he's repeatedly failed to build a complete team. This isn't new for JJ. I understand he only has had minimum deals to work with but other teams have made it work. We gave up a pick with Nurkic and got back guys who didn't play positions we needed help with.


He's never proactive in making moves. He waited until we lost in the finals to get Ayton a backup. He waited until Crowder had no trade value as a player to move him. Royce, Grayson, and Okogie were all midlevel sized deals and one of them could be moved for value of sort and he got the Hornets backup C for Okogie, which is decent, if we didn't need a starting C and more help up front.

It's always 2 steps back before we take 1 step forward so we're perpetually playing catchup since he's been GM.

 

[leclerc]

OK so he (James Jones) can only get players on a small budget. He still fails to address obvious weaknesses in size and athleticsm. We've been small and weak on the inside for ages.

 

[Phrazbit]

And this is 4 years post finals run where he's repeatedly failed to build a complete team. This isn't new for JJ. I understand he only has had minimum deals to work with but other teams have made it work. We gave up a pick with Nurkic and got back guys who didn't play positions we needed help with.


He's never proactive in making moves. He waited until we lost in the finals to get Ayton a backup. He waited until Crowder had no trade value as a player to move him. Royce, Grayson, and Okogie were all midlevel sized deals and one of them could be moved for value of sort and he got the Hornets backup C for Okogie, which is decent, if we didn't need a starting C and more help up front.

It's always 2 steps back before we take 1 step forward so we're perpetually playing catchup since he's been GM.

Jones deserves a lot of credit.

He took over a team that was in the cellar for like 5 years running, with an ultimatum to win now, the immediately improved by almost 20 games and barely missed the playoffs in the bubble season, several moves throughout the year seemed to make them better. Hit gold the next season and launched an improbable finals run, Crowder and Paul are criminally underrated acquisitions. The team was even better the next year, easily the best team during the season, I don't know what happened behind the scenes in the playoffs but, obviously, it was bad, total meltdown against Dallas.

So, from that point, IMO, outside of drafting Smith over Halliberton (which is a huge whiff... but it was the 10th pick, a lot of whiffs happened before that... that said, I hated the move in real time, as did most, Halliberton would have been a game changer) his record was pretty good.

Then in 2022/23, Monty goes 'civil war' and banishes Crowder for seemingly no reason, never repairs his relationship with Ayton... for seemingly no reason, and despite a cascade of injuries, the Suns are still 30-26, their record when healthy is among the league's elite.

And then Ishbia buys the team. He immediately trades 4 firsts and and swap, and Johnson and Bridges (the guy with the best splits on the roster 3 years running) for Durant... who was out with an injury. Despite gutting the roster and the wild amount of injuries, the team with merely Booker(who'd been injured), Paul (who'd been injured) and Ayton (who'd been injured) and a bunch of no bodies, kept it up, Durant finally plays for a couple games, gets hurt in the layup line, and still, they hang in there. Durant kinda sucks in round 1, we win because Booker plays out of his mind and Leonard gets hurt (shocking). Round 2... everyone but Durant and Booker get hurt and we go down.

Next season. The Suns make the least out of Ayton. They make the disasterout Beal trade... I think BOTH of these moves are entirely Ishbia. No patience, no thought about the long term outlook.

All in all... from the perspective of someone who thinks every move after Feb 2023 was an Ishbia move, I think JJ did far more good than harm, the best GM they've had since Jerry was running the team over Bryan's shoulder. Does that mean JJ is a good GM or that the rest sucked? I dunno, but I can tell you, I think that the work of the front office since Ishbia took over is the worst we've ever seen.

 

[leclerc]

Ishbia's start has been ish, I don't know, really bad. He needs to hire some competent guys to run the club and take up tennis or something.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ishbia's start has been ish, I don't know, really bad. He needs to hire some competent guys to run the club and take up tennis or something.

The first thing he needs to do is to have an Isiahectomy. Maybe he's already had the procedure but from the moves he's made I suspect he's still attached to the King of Bad Advice.

 

[BirdGangThing]

The first thing he needs to do is to have an Isiahectomy. Maybe he's already had the procedure but from the moves he's made I suspect he's still attached to the King of Bad Advice.

we have no evidence of this... except for us doing exactly what isaiah's done in the past - like almost to a t

 

[leclerc]

Bad sign that we have one thread for each coach. Hired on page 1. Fired on page 18.

I will be holding my breath all of May and June to hear what happens to James Jones. Let him go. Get someone new in before trades and contracts.

Cannot give the max to Booker. They missed the play-ins and did he make the all star team? No? Why should he get the max then, because he has been loyal? Give him 80 % of the max.

 

[Superbone]

we have no evidence of this... except for us doing exactly what isaiah's done in the past - like almost to a t

A T as in Thomas?

 

[BirdGangThing]

A T as in Thomas?

i like what you did there

 

[AzStevenCal]

I will be holding my breath all of May and June to hear what happens to James Jones. Let him go. Get someone new in before trades and contracts.

Cannot give the max to Booker. They missed the play-ins and did he make the all star team? No? Why should he get the max then, because he has been loyal? Give him 80 % of the max.

That would have been reasonable in the early days of the supermax deal but anymore, not giving it to a player of Devin's caliber (whether it's top 10 or top 30) is a surefire way to create dissension. He didn't earn his salary this year so giving him a big raise feels wrong in so many ways but it's what we have to do if we're keeping him past this summer.

 

[Covert Rain]

That would have been reasonable in the early days of the supermax deal but anymore, not giving it to a player of Devin's caliber (whether it's top 10 or top 30) is a surefire way to create dissension. He didn't earn his salary this year so giving him a big raise feels wrong in so many ways but it's what we have to do if we're keeping him past this summer.

If we do, facing reality he isn’t going anywhere, I just hope this was a chemistry/poor roster construction/coaching issue and not a new stage in Books career or he is going to be a huge drag on the organization with that salary.

 

[leclerc]

I was thinking offering 80 % makes him want to change clubs, or he can be motivated to elevate his game to a more legendary level. I'm so sick and tired of him not showing up for the biggest games.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I agree with all of those who refuse to blame Jones for anything post Ishbia. It's impossible to assess blame/credit from that point.

 

[Superbone]

I agree with all of those who refuse to blame Jones for anything post Ishbia. It's impossible to assess blame/credit from that point.

It really is. We don't exactly know who's responsible for what but the whole tone of our moves changed greatly at that point. Leads me to strongly believe that Ishbia was the driving force. It's all unlimited money driven without foresight.

 

[TRW]

Most likely to happen IMO is James Jones' contract is allowed to expire, they give the max extension to Booker, try to trade Beal (who invokes his no trade clause to stay), trades KD somewhere for a bag of chips, hire a retread for GM and HC. Rinse and repeat in a year or 2. Ish may be paying a record number of former HC and GMs before it's all said and done.
They have absolutely no hope for the immediate future since they don't have any first round draft picks for like 8 years and will be shackled by not only Beal's ludicrous deal but Booker's as well.
Good times.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Most likely to happen IMO is James Jones' contract is allowed to expire, they give the max extension to Booker, try to trade Beal (who invokes his no trade clause to stay), trades KD somewhere for a bag of chips, hire a retread for GM and HC. Rinse and repeat in a year or 2. Ish may be paying a record number of former HC and GMs before it's all said and done.
They have absolutely no hope for the immediate future since they don't have any first round draft picks for like 8 years and will be shackled by not only Beal's ludicrous deal but Booker's as well.
Good times.

If you want the full run down of just how bleak the future is, take a look at Kellan Olson’s breakdown of the draft for the next six years.

Read it and weep… literally:

The complicated, bleak future of Suns' NBA Draft capital

The Phoenix Suns might be screwed in the future because of the NBA Draft and their only way out of it will be through... the draft.

arizonasports.com

There is NO reason to back up the dump truck for Booker to exist in the wasteland to come.

 

[Raindog]

If you want the full run down of just how bleak the future is, take a look at Kellan Olson’s breakdown of the draft for the next six years.

Read it and weep… literally:

The complicated, bleak future of Suns' NBA Draft capital

The Phoenix Suns might be screwed in the future because of the NBA Draft and their only way out of it will be through... the draft.

arizonasports.com

There is NO reason to back up the dump truck for Booker to exist in the wasteland to come.

Ouch, that is brutal. Barring miracles one has no reason to expect with this FO, the Suns are likely truly effed until at least possibly the mid 2030s.

 

[elindholm]

There is NO reason to back up the dump truck for Booker to exist in the wasteland to come.

True, but for that matter, is there any reason not to? Someone has to be on the roster.

 

[elindholm]

Ouch, that is brutal. Barring miracles one has no reason to expect with this FO, the Suns are likely truly effed until at least possibly the mid 2030s.

It's weird to me that the media are only now coming to this realization, when it was blindingly obvious the instant the Durant trade was consummated.

 

[Phrazbit]

It's weird to me that the media are only now coming to this realization, when it was blindingly obvious the instant the Durant trade was consummated.

Yeah, in the best case scenario we had a 2 or 3 year window to contend, and then it was going to be darkness for a decade... turns out we got no years to contend.