Mike D'Antoni and Steve Kerr

[Cheesebeef]

You should really think twice before calling someone (DA) a "fool" when the evidence doesn't support it.

you mean the overwhelming evidence that with all the talent in the world and HC advantage he couldn't ever get past the Spurs... or all the evidence that shows how much of an abject failure he's been without Nash to run DA's "offense"... even though for the last decade, no matter who the coach is, Nash has run the most successful offense in the league?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I was wrong about D'Antoni.


And I'm happy with Gentry.


That is all.

 

[HooverDam]

I'm sorry man, but if you think we're running the same offense now as we were then, you're huffing paint. This team doesn't run anything CLOSE to 7 seconds or less. That offense was predicated on one thing and one thing only... get the ball to Nash and RUN. This offense is SO much more multi-faceted it's not even funny.

Welp Gentry says they're running the same offense, Ill take his word over yours, sorry. They're still shooting a lot of three's and the basis of their offense is the Nash/Amare P&R and Nash's penetration. You really demonstrate your ignorance when you try to claim this offense is substantially different than D'Antonis.

Regular season sure... and that's really all DA supporters care about but one year with a halfway decent coach and what do you know? We're back in the Conference Finals, JUST AS SUCCESSFUL as any DA team. You measure success in regular season, fine. I measure it by post-season and here we are AGAIN.

D'Antoni had the Suns in the conference finals twice, so far since he's been gone the Suns have missed the playoffs and are on the verge of 1 conference finals, thats not really 'just as successful' by any measure.

Lets re-visit this in 2 years, and give the organization 4 years w/ out D'Antoni. My guess is they'll have less wins and less post season success with out him than they did with him. Now thats not all on coaching, the team is getting older now, but I don't see the Suns getting past LA (though I hope they do).

again, you're a simpleton if you think just because we're scoring a ton of points that we're running DA's system.

Nope, no I don't. I didn't say, imply or infer that in anyway. You made it completely up on your own.

cry me a freaking river... as if this team... WHO'S MISSING IT'S STARTING CENTER is the luckiest team alive. Give me a break.

I didnt say they're the 'luckiest team alive', again you're stretching and using hyperbole to grasp at straws because your argument can't hold up on its own. You don't think this Suns team has been luckier than in years past? Look at their playoff match ups so far, a Blazers team that has to have been one of the most injured playoff teams in NBA history, and a Spurs team thats over the hill, has no 3 point shooting and made some rare off season acquisitions (RJ) that didn't fit their program.

you're right... that alone doesn't make hem genuises, nor do I think they are one, but that PLUS the fact that DA has been a complete and UTTER FAILURE EVERYWHERE but with Nash DOES ake him a fool. A one trick pony.

He hasn't been a failure everywhere, you know he won championships in Europe, right? He had less than one season in Denver with a horrific roster and has been slowly blowing up the Knicks to start from scratch. If you really think those are fair circumstances to judge anyone in, you're stupid and thats all their is to it.

and meanwhile Isiah was able to win at the same clip that DA has. I mean, if DA was a great coach as you say he is, shouldn't he at least elevate that team A LITTLE?

Yah shouldn't he be able to win at a higher clip while he's trading off pieces and shedding salaries and having even less talent than Isiah had. Yep, that makes perfect sense!

Judge him once he has at least some talent on his team, lets see what the Knicks do in 2010 FA and then we can be reasonable, rational adults and judge D'Antoni.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Don't be hatin', its all good... All of the guys you are ripping on made their contribution to the Suns and are appreciated. Could they have done better, of course but let's focus on enjoying this ride...

 

[gdiddy]

This has to be one of the most laughable threads I've seen. This team has yet to finish off the Spurs, let alone face the next round contender which would most likely be LA, and let alone get to the final round and face a powerhouse like Cleveland or Orlando, and people are talking about how D'Antoni was a screw up.

San Antonio was a much better team defensively back in the day. Oh, and remember dirty Bowen? If he was still around he'd be giving Nash a beating right now.

By the way, I saw reference to how Nash is the offense and that he also contributed to Dallas' high scoring offense back in the day. If my memory serves me correctly, wasn't the head coach Don Nelson? Doesn't Nelson bear some resemblance to D'Antoni in terms of offensive style? Golden States upset of Dallas in 2007 comes to mind.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I was wrong about D'Antoni.


And I'm happy with Gentry.


That is all.

i like you much more when you agree with me.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

i like you much more when you agree with me.

I have my moments

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

How was I wrong about anything? Guess who's offense that is the Suns are running out there? Hint: its a guy who's in NYC now.

There are aspects of the D'Antoni offense utilized, but it's not the same. Any statistical measure will tell you as much. We go to the post significantly more and shoot less three's.

The Suns were not 'just as successful' with out him as they were with him. Take a look at their W-L percentage with and without him, guess what: its better with.

Wow, regular season statistics? Really? Nobody cares about the NBA regular season and that includes the guys wearing the uniforms.

Now that they're back to D'Antonis offense they're having good results, so to act like D'Antonis system was the failure is silly. Those D'Antoni teams had a lot of bad luck some years and others they just weren't the best team. This years Spurs team isn't the Spurs from earlier this decade though, and while I'm thrilled to be beating them, it doesn't make Kerr or Gentry some kind of geniuses and D'Antoni a fool. Thats the sort of moronic, black and white thinking that unfortunately plagues most sports fans and has me checking the Suns subforum less and less these days.

My guess is you're not hanging around because you spent a solid year trashing Kerr and lauding D'Antoni and that opinion has blown up in your face. This isn't the same Spurs but it's also not the same Suns - we're older for starters. And I firmly believe you make your own luck. If D'Antoni's teams possessed more mental toughness (my biggest gripe with DA, his teams were mentally soft) they probably would've overcome some of those tough breaks.

If you think D'Antoni is an awful coach you don't know much about basketball and thats the long and short of it. I don't think he's a Hall of Famer (though he may get there some day) but to criticize him for not having success with the other rosters he's had is ridiculous. Isiah Thomas screwed that Knicks team up in a gigantic way and everyone knew it was going to take a few years to blow things up and rebuild.

DA in the HOF? That's amazing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

DA in the HOF? That's amazing.

seriously... he's never even been to the Finals and without Nash has been a complete and utter failure. HOF maybe one day... that's hilarious.

 

[HooverDam]

There are aspects of the D'Antoni offense utilized, but it's not the same. Any statistical measure will tell you as much. We go to the post significantly more and shoot less three's.

They don't shoot as many 3s as those first two years w/ D'Antoni, they're still shooting a lot. And thats not necessarily a tactical change as much as it is a personnel change. J-Rich is one of the better post up 2 guards in the league, of course you're going to post him. And when Grant Hill replaces Joe Johnson at the 3, you're of course going to shoot less 3's.

The offense isn't substantially different from a tactical point of view. The Suns since aquiring Frye probably shoot more 3's from the 5 position, does that make it a vastly different offense? No, it means the coaches aren't retards and they took advantage of their personnel.

Wow, regular season statistics? Really? Nobody cares about the NBA regular season and that includes the guys wearing the uniforms.

You just make stuff up don't you? Im talking about regular AND post season. The Suns missed the playoffs last year due to Kerrs moves with the idiotic Shaq trade and the bad hire of Porter. Thats a step backwards from where they were under D'Antoni.

My guess is you're not hanging around because you spent a solid year trashing Kerr and lauding D'Antoni and that opinion has blown up in your face.

Yep, its sure blown up in my face! Boy was I wrong about that KT trade, it was genius!

Bill Simmons had it right in his recent article, Kerr has very much improved his GMing skills, Id give him a C overall and say he's a middle of the road GM, but initially, he was awful and thats all I ever said. Now he's improved and Ill give him credit.

DA in the HOF? That's amazing.

I just said he's NOT a HOFer, so what are you even trying to make a point about here? If LeBron or some mega stars goes to NY and they win a title or two though, D'Antoni certainly becomes a HOF candidate.

Remember its the BASKETBALL Hall of Fame, not the NBA HOF. European championships, a super successful run w/ the Suns and maybe a title or two in NY depending on this offseason, yah thats a HOF resume.

 

[Bert]

All this argument aside, I wonder how Mike D feels right now watching us do this?

That's an honest question, not a lead in.

Is it bittersweet? Is he just happy for the guys and Gentry? I dont know. I know he had a lot of bad feelings towards Kerr and Sarver but you know he loved Steve and Amare,,, I have to wonder how he really feels about what just happened.

 

[mojorizen7]

All this argument aside, I wonder how Mike D feels right now watching us do this?

That's an honest question, not a lead in.

Is it bittersweet? Is he just happy for the guys and Gentry? I dont know. I know he had a lot of bad feelings towards Kerr and Sarver but you know he loved Steve and Amare,,, I have to wonder how he really feels about what just happened.

D'Antoni is stubborn & arrogant, but he's also loyal so i imagine he's elated for the success that Gentry/Nash/Amare/Barbs are experiencing this season.

No comment on how he might feel about the success of Sarver/Kerr/this team.(Ok one comment)... Prob trying to figure out ways how to simply outscore us next season when the teams meet.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

They don't shoot as many 3s as those first two years w/ D'Antoni, they're still shooting a lot. And thats not necessarily a tactical change as much as it is a personnel change. J-Rich is one of the better post up 2 guards in the league, of course you're going to post him. And when Grant Hill replaces Joe Johnson at the 3, you're of course going to shoot less 3's.

The offense isn't substantially different from a tactical point of view. The Suns since aquiring Frye probably shoot more 3's from the 5 position, does that make it a vastly different offense? No, it means the coaches aren't retards and they took advantage of their personnel.

So acquiring different players to do different things on offense isn't a tactical change?

You just make stuff up don't you? Im talking about regular AND post season. The Suns missed the playoffs last year due to Kerrs moves with the idiotic Shaq trade and the bad hire of Porter. Thats a step backwards from where they were under D'Antoni.

Amare missing thirty games had a little to do with it, but yeah, those were two bad moves. It's also worth noting that those teams had a younger Nash.

Yep, its sure blown up in my face! Boy was I wrong about that KT trade, it was genius!

Ownership forced. It gets annoying having to explain this to people.

Bill Simmons had it right in his recent article, Kerr has very much improved his GMing skills, Id give him a C overall and say he's a middle of the road GM, but initially, he was awful and thats all I ever said. Now he's improved and Ill give him credit.

Kerr constructed one of the top 5 teams in the NBA while his owner made him slash payroll and go cheap on free agents. I think he deserves a bit more than a C.

I just said he's NOT a HOFer, so what are you even trying to make a point about here? If LeBron or some mega stars goes to NY and they win a title or two though, D'Antoni certainly becomes a HOF candidate.

Remember its the BASKETBALL Hall of Fame, not the NBA HOF. European championships, a super successful run w/ the Suns and maybe a title or two in NY depending on this offseason, yah thats a HOF resume.

That's a lot of if's.

No comment on how he might feel about the success of Sarver/Kerr/this team.(Ok one comment)... Prob trying to figure out ways how to outscore us next season when the teams meet.

Doubtful for these guys (although in a strange twist of irony all it apparently took to beat the Spurs was D'Antoni listening to Kerr's advice), I'm sure Nash and Gentry already got a call or text congratulating. In all likelihood Mike is most likely sitting at home trying to conjure up ways to "bust us" next season with his six man rotation.

 

[taz02]

We can argue all day wether D' Antoni is a good coach or not, but it's clear Gentry is far superior.

Recognized the need and managed nash's minutes, even when it wasn't easy.

Spent the regular season developing the young guys.

Used his bench all season so they'd be confident in the playoffs.

Teahces and relys on DEFENSE...This is the key to our success and it never happened with D'Antoni.

Everyone on this team 10 deep has a clearly defined role. D'Antoni had maybe 5-6.

Team chemistry is the best I've ever seen

I'm not a D'Antoni hater but there is no way you can argue who is the better coach.

 

[Mainstreet]

D'Antoni is stubborn & arrogant, but he's also loyal so i imagine he's elated for the success that Gentry/Nash/Amare/Barbs are experiencing this season.

No comment on how he might feel about the success of Sarver/Kerr/this team.(Ok one comment)... Prob trying to figure out ways how to simply outscore us next season when the teams meet.

I think DA is happy for the Suns players and the coaches. Also I think he is smart enough to reflect on how Gentry improved the Suns with defense and depth. This comes too close to home to ignore. So I expect DA to improve NY's defense but whether he will have enough talent to turn NY around is another matter. I bet he sure misses Nash.

 

[jagu]

D'Antoni is too ignorant to do what Gentry is doing. If he was the coach Dragic would be a super scrub right now and probably get 0 minutes a game.

 

[Mainstreet]

D'Antoni is too ignorant to do what Gentry is doing. If he was the coach Dragic would be a super scrub right now and probably get 0 minutes a game.

Just like he treated LB.

 

[Cheesebeef]

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baske...-suns-sweep-of-spurs-as-vindication-1.1905012

D'Antoni sees Suns' sweep of Spurs as vindication

May 10, 2010 By ALAN HAHN [email protected]

Mike D'Antoni watched Sunday with a smile as the Suns, as he put it, "slayed an old nemesis" by sweeping the Spurs in a Western Conference semifinal.

He appreciated what it meant for his former allies Steve Nash, Amar'e Stoudemire and coach Alvin Gentry, but D'Antoni also took from the Suns' success a measure of personal vindication.

That's his system the Suns are playing. And they're..."

Boy, I'd love to read this to see if DA is just as pigheaded now as he was then. How us beating SA by FINALLY playing D, outrebounding them, playing a 10 man rotation and basically having calm under pressure is ANY measure of personal vindication tells me all I need to know about DA. He's a world class moron who was blessed with a lot of talent and did very little with it, especially at a time when the West only had 3 teams that could actually ball.

 

[CaptainInsano]

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baske...-suns-sweep-of-spurs-as-vindication-1.1905012

D'Antoni sees Suns' sweep of Spurs as vindication

May 10, 2010 By ALAN HAHN [email protected]

Mike D'Antoni watched Sunday with a smile as the Suns, as he put it, "slayed an old nemesis" by sweeping the Spurs in a Western Conference semifinal.

He appreciated what it meant for his former allies Steve Nash, Amar'e Stoudemire and coach Alvin Gentry, but D'Antoni also took from the Suns' success a measure of personal vindication.

That's his system the Suns are playing. And they're..."

Boy, I'd love to read this to see if DA is just as pigheaded now as he was then. How us beating SA by FINALLY playing D, outrebounding them, playing a 10 man rotation and basically having calm under pressure is ANY measure of personal vindication tells me all I need to know about DA. He's a world class moron who was blessed with a lot of talent and did very little with it, especially at a time when the West only had 3 teams that could actually ball.

Found it

http://thelakersnation.com/forums/index.php?/topic/37866-dantoni-takes-credit-for-suns-sweep/

on a lakers board no less w.t.f.

 

[Griffin]

Interesting quote from that article:

"They're playing better defense, and you've got to give Alvin credit for that," D'Antoni said. "Amar'e can say what he wants, but we talked every day to him about defense. I mean, we're not stupid. We emphasized and tried, but he wasn't ready to buy into it totally.

"And Alvin got him to buy in, and I think that's Alvin's strength. He got a bond with Amar'e that I probably couldn't reach, and it's worked."

 

[Tyler]

Mike: Hey Amare you should play some D.
Amare: yea OK coach
Mike: Im serious dog
Amare: wtf are you doing calling me dog bra?
Mike: Just play D
Amare: Just resign.

 

[hsandhu]

Interesting quote from that article:

Give me a damn break. You tried to get Amare to play defense, how? By sticking a 6 10 240 pf on natural centers every night?

Anyone who has played 5 mins of pickup basketball knows how much it sucks when you have to guard the big oaf, even if he sucks. That saps your motivation to play defense.

And moving off of amare, onto other guys, how many times were people accountable for defense?

Did anybody hear bickley on the radio today. He said even after the tech last night, amare kept yapping. Grant Hill went to gentry and told him amare wouldn't stop, so gentry says to grant "Tell him to shut the F up, or I'm taking him out of the game".

The next timeout gentry lectured amare. He has been able to hold players accountable but at the same time doesn't risk losing them mentally.

Do you ever see mike doing the above?

 

[hsandhu]

Did anyone also see pop indirectly smack down mike during his post game presser.

He said this suns team actually plays real defense, not fake defense for 10 seconds. And they understand defense can actually help you win and that can be fun.

 

[mojorizen7]

"I get a little down because the first thing out of everybody's mouth is, 'They don't play defense,'" D'Antoni said before last night's preseason game against the Sixers. "First of all we won 55 games last year, 61 the year before. Sixty-one times we played better defense than the other team, that's for sure, because we score more points."

Mike D'Antoni


I celebrated the day this arrogant clown walked away.

 

[cly2tw]

Give me a damn break. You tried to get Amare to play defense, how? By sticking a 6 10 240 pf on natural centers every night?

Anyone who has played 5 mins of pickup basketball knows how much it sucks when you have to guard the big oaf, even if he sucks. That saps your motivation to play defense.

And moving off of amare, onto other guys, how many times were people accountable for defense?

Did anybody hear bickley on the radio today. He said even after the tech last night, amare kept yapping. Grant Hill went to gentry and told him amare wouldn't stop, so gentry says to grant "Tell him to shut the F up, or I'm taking him out of the game".

The next timeout gentry lectured amare. He has been able to hold players accountable but at the same time doesn't risk losing them mentally.

Do you ever see mike doing the above?

And, what about making Amare the "point center"? Yap, we gave the ball to him once or twice at the start of the season and Amare failed, so he ain't got the talent of learning that part of game properly, just as he ain't got talent to play defense, right? You have to provide a reasonable setting for players to develop, don't you get it coach DA? Oops, he were not in the business of developing players but winning championships.

Lip service was all what DA did regarding Amare. No wonder he couldn't bond with Amare.