Miller once again does it again!

Russ Smith

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The FBI indicated that assistants were concealing bribes and seemed to have indicated that they did so without the institution knowing. If Miller was involved, shame on him, but I have reason to believe that because Book was taking cash on the side, Miller wasn't aware of most, or all, of Book's actions.


Oh I'm sure the coaches are going to say they did this on their own, they're looking after their future coaching careers here. They have two things to worry about, show cause rulings by the NCAA that make them difficult to hire, and then burning their old employers and getting blacklisted. I should add if Pasternack was involved too it becomes awfully hard to believe the 2 best recruiters on a staff of 3 were taking bribes and paying players and the head coach had no idea.

WIth all the mention of Adidas I am just waiting to see if there's a Compton Magic, Etop and UCLA connection going on too.

The fascinating one is there appears to be some references to a kid USC paid that based on the information seems to be Marvin Bagley who went to Duke not USC.
 
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Russ Smith

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If you read the complaint for both Bland and Book it says payments were made to present and incoming players, with Book it says between 2016 and September of 2017. So that means Book paid someone, either a current or incoming player THIS month.
 

Russ Smith

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wow one of the documents references a "bidding war" between school 7 and school 4 for a kid who wound up getting over 100K to go to school 7. It looks like school 7 is Miami, and school 4 is Arizona, and the kid was Lonnie Walker.
 

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I guess they have to do it this way but the way it's put out there it's hard not to speculate and that puts possibly innocent kids in danger of getting falsely accused.

That said the way it's worded there's several references to UA and a "top prospect" who very likely is DeAndre Ayton. And there's more reference to a current player who appears very likely to be Trier.

If true, you might have just lost your 2 best players. There's no way the NCAA will let Trier play if he gets caught up in this after being suspended last year for steroids. And Ayton just went through a very serious NCAA clearance and only recently got cleared, if it turns out he took money then he lied to the NCAA and they won't take kindly to it.

But it's really hard to know at this point, the way it's written those are the 2 most obvious guys but it doesn't mean it is them.
 

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wow one of the documents references a "bidding war" between school 7 and school 4 for a kid who wound up getting over 100K to go to school 7. It looks like school 7 is Miami, and school 4 is Arizona, and the kid was Lonnie Walker.

I remember that recruitment changed at the last minute and I was giving Sheer a hard time for being wrong lol. Not sure what happens to Walker but Quinerly will never play at Arizona. I wonder if he'll be allowed to play anywhere?
 

Russ Smith

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I remember that recruitment changed at the last minute and I was giving Sheer a hard time for being wrong lol. Not sure what happens to Walker but Quinerly will never play at Arizona. I wonder if he'll be allowed to play anywhere?


Yeah that's one where Ace was insisting it was a done deal to UA and then suddenly it was Miami and he was saying they paid the kid. From what's in the docs, it was literally a bidding war although I don't think the actual schools were involved just agents and shoe companies trying to steer him to the school of their choice.

There's some speculation the current player is not Trier but is Alkins, which I guess makes some sense since both he and Book are from New York and Book was the key guy in his recruitment.

The more I read it I'm not clear if the "top recruit" is another reference to Lonnie Walker, or to Ayton.
 

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I guess they have to do it this way but the way it's put out there it's hard not to speculate and that puts possibly innocent kids in danger of getting falsely accused.

That said the way it's worded there's several references to UA and a "top prospect" who very likely is DeAndre Ayton. And there's more reference to a current player who appears very likely to be Trier.

If true, you might have just lost your 2 best players. There's no way the NCAA will let Trier play if he gets caught up in this after being suspended last year for steroids. And Ayton just went through a very serious NCAA clearance and only recently got cleared, if it turns out he took money then he lied to the NCAA and they won't take kindly to it.

But it's really hard to know at this point, the way it's written those are the 2 most obvious guys but it doesn't mean it is them.

I think you’re seriously reaching here. I highly doubt the NCAA will be able to do much with this right now. If anything, it’d wait until after the season. Remember, the NCAA learned about this just this morning.


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Russ Smith

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I think you’re seriously reaching here. I highly doubt the NCAA will be able to do much with this right now. If anything, it’d wait until after the season. Remember, the NCAA learned about this just this morning.


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Sure but this isn't a normal situation where they get a tip and then have to investigate. This is a situation where if the FBI gives them what they have, they have these kids red handed taking cash. One of the points made in the SI story is that every year all these kids have to sign a document stating that they have not done anything to violate NCAA rules including amateur status, it's both for incoming kids like Ayton, and current players like Trier and Alkins. The entire point of having kids sign that document is so if the NCAA finds out they did in fact violate the rules, they can go after them for lying to the NCAA. They don't honestly think any kid is going to refuse to sign it and admit they took money, the entire purpose of the document is to increase the ability of the NCAA to punish kids who get caught.

At the very least any kids who are named in this would presumably be suspended by the schools because they won't want to take the chance of playing a kid who later on is ruled ineligible.

The timing is bad, when the Feds nailed Bazz' dad, he admitted to them he'd taken out a loan using Bazz' NBA future as collateral. By the time the feds got that information to the NCAA, it was too late. I've always been surprised they didn't vacate every win he played in at UCLA that year but the NCAA ruled that there was no way UCLA could have known because they only found out when the NCAA did when the feds informed them. In THIS case, the feds are informing UA and USC etc right now that they have players on their current team who took payments.

If you read closely there's a reference in the Book stuff where he tells a money man they don't have to worry about paying a current player because "he's already been paid." Assuming the feds tell the NCAA who that player is I can't imagine the NCAA won't at least temporarily rule him ineligible.

If that player is Trier I'd be stunned if he gets reinstated, he was suspended last year and there's no way they're going to like him taking money this close to having been suspended. The other issue is given the timing in the story if it's him or Alkins in both cases you can argue the entire reason they didn't turn pro is they were paid by some agent or shoe company and it allowed them to stay in college another year.

again I'm not blaming arizona here at all, this is clearly a case where agents and shoe companies were so interested in placing kids at certain schools for their own benefit that they just found coaches willing to take bribes, I fully expect more names and more schools to come out if the FBI starts having people come forward and turn in people in exchange for deals. Dan Wetzel is saying this thing is going to wind up huge by the time all the people rat each other out, lots more schools will have players and coaches implicated.

But we know for sure there's at least one player on your current roster that has not only already been paid, he was apparently seeking to get paid again and Book informed the money man they didn't need to pay him. Most of this stuff is based on undercover stings they have eye witness and video surveillance of these things happening, there's no gray area at all the NCAA would have to look into.
 

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I hope UA basketball doesn't go out like ASU baseball. As bad as this is for UA, it all but puts the final nail in Pitino's coaching career with this emphatic third strike. This scandal is going to take schools years to recover. Straight and narrow kids and their parents aren't going to forget this. Again, how KENT stayed out of this is truly amazing.
 

Russ Smith

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if you follow that link from my prior post and look at page 36 on it's about Book. On page 37 it says Sood the money guy was meeting with TWO coaches from School #4 which is ARizona, so it is Book and Pasternack.

It also says they're bringing the uncle of a top kid from next years class along to meet Sood, with the 2 UA coaches who are recruiting him. So if I'm reading that correctly, that's NOT Ayton because he's this years class not next. But it's not Quinerly either because they already discussed him, so it's another player UA is recruiting. My guess based on the circumstances would be RJ Barrett. It's in march so it's an 18 kid.

That's the part that people were speculating was Ayton so if I'm reading it correctly I don't find anything yet that indicates Ayton was involved
 

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I hope UA basketball doesn't go out like ASU baseball. As bad as this is for UA, it all but puts the final nail in Pitino's coaching career with this emphatic third strike. This scandal is going to take schools years to recover. Straight and narrow kids and their parents aren't going to forget this. Again, how KENT stayed out of this is truly amazing.


If players and coaches start giving up names to get deals I fully expect far more schools to get caught up in this.

I would add this is in effect the Lance Armstrong deal where other schools were doing this in large part to try and keep up with UK and Duke who had their own deals ongoing.
 

Russ Smith

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Still reading. Looks like the bidding war wasn't Lonnie walker, it's Nassir Little.
 

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The player that was paid has to be Kobi Simmons right? Book got involved with him late in the process and he treated AZ like a pit stop. I suppose it could be Rawle but it legitimately seemed like he wanted to come here. At least that's what I want to believe.

I'm sure this will put a lid on recruiting this year. Little is obviously out. Maybe Bol drops AZ/USC and heads to Oregon.
 

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The player that was paid has to be Kobi Simmons right? Book got involved with him late in the process and he treated AZ like a pit stop. I suppose it could be Rawle but it legitimately seemed like he wanted to come here. At least that's what I want to believe.

I'm sure this will put a lid on recruiting this year. Little is obviously out. Maybe Bol drops AZ/USC and heads to Oregon.

it COULD be Simmons but the timing of it seems to be after Kobi had already announced he was going pro. They were talking about paying a player and Book said they don't have to, he's already been paid. He's a current player.

The USA today story says there are two current UA players who got paid by Book, and a recruit which we know is Quinerly. And then Little was in the bidding war. It's not clear if he's the 18 recruit whose uncle met with Book, Pasternack and Sood in March or not.

He does fit the description of top recruit. Givony is saying that people stopped recruiting Little because they knew he was going to Arizona and that Little is likely involved in the investigation. Little tweeted today he's reopening his recruitment, and then deleted it. And he hasn't even committed yet.

Also, Little's AAu coach is currently in jail per Givony.
 

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it COULD be Simmons but the timing of it seems to be after Kobi had already announced he was going pro. They were talking about paying a player and Book said they don't have to, he's already been paid. He's a current player.

The USA today story says there are two current UA players who got paid by Book, and a recruit which we know is Quinerly. And then Little was in the bidding war. It's not clear if he's the 18 recruit whose uncle met with Book, Pasternack and Sood in March or not.

He does fit the description of top recruit. Givony is saying that people stopped recruiting Little because they knew he was going to Arizona and that Little is likely involved in the investigation. Little tweeted today he's reopening his recruitment, and then deleted it. And he hasn't even committed yet.

Also, Little's AAu coach is currently in jail per Givony.

Why haven't the paid players names been released? I've been flying all day and can't go thru these reports on my phone... Little's coach in jail too?
 

Russ Smith

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Why haven't the paid players names been released? I've been flying all day and can't go thru these reports on my phone... Little's coach in jail too?

Not clear if Little's coach is in jail because of this or something else.

I read something this morning that said they believe the timing of the release on this was done precisely to give the NCAA enough time to review all the kids involved and suspend them. That if the FBI had waited any longer, the season would have started and several of these kids would play in games and then get ruled ineligible. They think the FBI was probably already in communication with the NCAA on this and sort of asked them how much time would you need and then released the news to meet that deadline.

If that's true it's very realistic that many of these kids will miss some or all of the coming season.

I ruptured my patellar tendon on Friday night so I'm not very mobile right now and just spent hours reading this stuff last night.

So far the only thing that seems bad for UA beyond that they had 2 coaches involved, is the part where the agent Dawkins tells undercover people that Book told him Miller wants the PG(Quinerly) bad as bleep but it's going to take 15K to get him so let's get him. The way it's worded it's 2nd hand info but it almost sounds like Book is saying Miller knows it's going to take 15k to get the commitment and told him to get the kid. It's not black and white though and again it's Dawkins relating what Book said so it's less compelling.

The Ok State guy Evans comes off the worst so far he did it at 2 different schools and it's kind of apparent that one OSU kid who was getting paid decided to stay in school in part because he got enough money that he was willing to come back.
 

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NCAA is to blame for all this. Their system is flawed but there have been many controversial recruitments in the last few years where evidence seemed pretty damning and yet the NCAA failed to tighten or toughen up on their investigating and now it takes a FBI investigation to blow the lid off the problem. But guaranteed players have been getting paid for decades but the emergence of AAU basketball being put into the public eye is the great revelation. I think in some way NCAA looks the other way because the money being generated by top recruits playing college basketball is too great to sacrifice. The shame is this should be the come to Jesus moment for college basketball after being exposed but this is not going to stop the problem.
 

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It also looks likely that Taeshon Cherry was paid by Bland to go to USC. He appears to be a recruit mentioned in the complaint against Bland.

It appears Bland paid DeAnthony Melton 4K, Charles O'Bannon JR(and a family member present who may be his dad) 5K, and 4K to a prospective recruit. USC fans were speculating that was Bagley but a guy on BRO made a pretty good case for it being Cherry.
 

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Everything I have read says that what has been released so far is just the tip of the iceberg and the FBI didn't do years of work just to indict four assistant coaches and arrest 10 others.
This is far from over and I think it's impossible for anyone right now to think that anyone involved in college basketball is safe.
 

Russ Smith

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Jay Williams just dropped the hammer on UCLA on Outside the Lines. He said he worked for an agent in 2009 and they paid the AAU coach for Kevin Love 250K with the understanding Love would go the school they wanted and sign with their agency when he went pro. Also implied assistant coaches were involved and wanted their cut too. Didn't name UCLA but of course that's where Love went, and the company was Adidas
 

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Jay Williams just dropped the hammer on UCLA on Outside the Lines. He said he worked for an agent in 2009 and they paid the AAU coach for Kevin Love 250K with the understanding Love would go the school they wanted and sign with their agency when he went pro. Also implied assistant coaches were involved and wanted their cut too. Didn't name UCLA but of course that's where Love went, and the company was Adidas

The FBI investigation only goes back to 2015 - but I wonder if it will go further now. And what is the statute of limitations on items like this?
 

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I mean, what's the NCAA supposed to do here? Shut down the wink-wink system where players to a certain degree get paid and watch billions go away when players decide not to attend school for free?
 
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