Mini Mariota

[TJ]

I think the last two weeks have at least let the prospect of Murray potentially being just an average QB surface. He’s made a good amount of mistakes that rookie QBs in December don’t make. Murray was sacked 5 times, but at least three of those Murray either ran into the pass rusher or ran out of bounds behind the LOS. On his first pick, he stared down his receiver the entire time, allowing Haden to jump the route. Furthermore, he’s still showing Kevin Kolb-like pocket presence.

There are aspects of Murray’s game that are awesome, but we’re starting to see the glaring weaknesses.

 

[Chopper0080]

We are seeing what it looks like when you take a guy with one year of starting experience in college. Especially when that one year was with one of the most talented offensive rosters in college football. It could be that three years from now if the scheme stays the same, Kyler looks like a top 12 QB. That being said, he may not get that much rope, especially if the wins don't start coming sooner vs later. Exceptions to the rule tend to not get second chances from others in the NFL.

 

[dscher]

This thread and the highly 'interesting' commentary makes me want to do one thing... buy a Murray jersey

Post of the thread/day.

 

[HGC]

Frightening thought. Don’t forget the bad coach, bum general manager and blind owner.

 

[Matt L]

We are seeing what it looks like when you take a guy with one year of starting experience in college. Especially when that one year was with one of the most talented offensive rosters in college football. It could be that three years from now if the scheme stays the same, Kyler looks like a top 12 QB. That being said, he may not get that much rope, especially if the wins don't start coming sooner vs later. Exceptions to the rule tend to not get second chances from others in the NFL.

None of these guys have three years. keim, kliff or even Kyler. I will be surprised if Keim is fired this off-season. That said...there's a ton of cap space and a lot of holes on the roster. I say go for it. spend to get some talent on this roster and see what happens. If the finish the 20-21 season with 7 wins or less, clean house and start over

 

[Solar7]

Sorry but this is such a dumb question lol. Tell me again about how good Haskins is.

Because Haskins being poor excuses Kyler playing terribly?

 

[Red Bird]

I think the last two weeks have at least let the prospect of Murray potentially being just an average QB surface. He’s made a good amount of mistakes that rookie QBs in December don’t make. Murray was sacked 5 times, but at least three of those Murray either ran into the pass rusher or ran out of bounds behind the LOS. On his first pick, he stared down his receiver the entire time, allowing Haden to jump the route. Furthermore, he’s still showing Kevin Kolb-like pocket presence.

There are aspects of Murray’s game that are awesome, but we’re starting to see the glaring weaknesses.

Glad I’m not the only one having Kolb flash backs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[juza76]

Because Haskins being poor excuses Kyler playing terribly?

Terrible... It's what u want him to perform, but isn't playing terrible, just regressed the last 2 games, but up's and down's are part of the learning curve for a rookie qb

Thats sad many here are so pretty fast changing their opinions about a player but at least u are always part of the '' opponents'' (outside of some pathetic attempts to make unbiased comments on Murray just to look like a friendly guy here)

 

[Solar7]

Terrible... It's what u want him to perform, but isn't playing terrible, just regressed the last 2 games, but up's and down's are part of the learning curve firs rookie qb

Dude, I'm not sure why you're obsessed with the idea that I want this team to be bad.

He's not just any rookie. He is the #1 overall pick, placed into an offense that is supposedly built to highlight all of his strengths. Right now he has hit a wall, and we're a really bad team.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

I'm still all in on KM.

KK? Not so much anymore, his playcalling is pretty damn pedestrian for a so called "Offensive Guru".

Why doesn't David Johnson play WR every snap? He's proven he can get open more than Wherethehellisabella.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

You know things are bad when I am one of the most positive posters on the message board.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I always thought the comparison of how two quarterbacks play just because they’re in the same game is the stupidest comparison I’ve ever seen. Because for all intents and purposes they’re really playing two different games. They don’t have the same surrounding supporting cast, they don’t play against the same defense, and game situations (behind/ahead, field position, home/away, etc.) are typically pretty different. It isn’t like a race where you are directly competing against the other runner. Or even basketball where you may have to defend the other guy. It’s just a stupid comparison. Might as well compare Murray today to dalton. Same effectiveness.

 

[AZCats]

Murray is pretty much going the way I expected him to go. I hated the pick on draft day and I still hate the pick. The way this is all playing out is a carbon copy of so many QBs that are similar to Murray. And none of them have lasted.

 

[Cheesebeef]

None of these guys have three years. keim, kliff or even Kyler. I will be surprised if Keim is fired this off-season. That said...there's a ton of cap space and a lot of holes on the roster. I say go for it. spend to get some talent on this roster and see what happens. If the finish the 20-21 season with 7 wins or less, clean house and start over

so, you wan to allow Keim to go hog wild with 70 million bucks that could cripple our cap moving forward and allow him to blow another first pick, which will be in the top 5? Both of those moves won't just hurt next year, but for years to come.

this team HAS to learn lessons from the Suns. they can not continue to give the keys to the castle to a guy in an off-season as critical as the next one. The Suns did that with lame-duck McD who proceeded to draft Ayton over Doncic, use all of our cap room on one the worst FA we've ever signed with Ariza, spent 2 first round picks on a 4th SF who's ceiling is role player AND hired the worst coach in the history of the the team. And guess what... that pretty describes Keim's 2018 when he made the worst QB FA signing ever, blew our 1st round and multiple other picks on Rosen and hired the worst HC in team history on the way to our worst record ever.

Then he turned around this year in 2019... and made a complete overhaul to the team... hired another coach who looks pretty terrible, leading the team to what looks like... a half game difference?

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Letting this complete and utter failure continue making the biggest decisions this team can make will only lead to more failure.

 

[Stout]

so, you wan to allow Keim to go hog wild with 70 million bucks that could cripple our cap moving forward and allow him to blow another first pick, which will be in the top 5? Both of those moves won't just hurt next year, but for years to come.

this team HAS to learn lessons from the Suns. they can not continue to give the keys to the castle to a guy in an off-season as critical as the next one. The Suns did that with lame-duck McD who proceeded to draft Ayton over Doncic, use all of our cap room on one the worst FA we've ever signed with Ariza, spent 2 first round picks on a 4th SF who's ceiling is role player AND hired the worst coach in the history of the the team. And guess what... that pretty describes Keim's 2018 when he made the worst QB FA signing ever, blew our 1st round and multiple other picks on Rosen and hired the worst HC in team history on the way to our worst record ever.

Then he turned around this year in 2019... and made a complete overhaul to the team... hired another coach who looks pretty terrible, leading the team to what looks like... a half game difference?

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Letting this complete and utter failure continue making the biggest decisions this team can make will only lead to more failure.

Um...what Cheese said.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Because Haskins being poor excuses Kyler playing terribly?

Bahahahahahaha

 

[Russ Smith]

They really won’t have a choice. If we get another 3 win season, everyone is gone. Personally I’d kick Murray to the curb for Lawrence in a heart beat. Not a knock on Kyler, I just think Lawrence will be that special. Like a Manning or Luck type


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Too early for me to give up on Kyler but I have to admit I don't get the Trevor Lawrence love. He's on a very talented team and yeah big kid with a good arm but again he's a guy deciding which wide open WR to throw the ball too. And he's not slow but he's not particularly mobile and I don't see him as of yet at least displaying anywhere near the smarts that Manning or Luck had. I know Dan Orlovsky loves him has been talking him up all year as a can't miss NFL star so maybe I'm just missing something but he strikes me as another kid hard to evaluate because the talent around him is so good. He will have been a 3 year starter by the time he gets to the NFL so that's a huge advantage.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm still all in on KM.

KK? Not so much anymore, his playcalling is pretty damn pedestrian for a so called "Offensive Guru".

Why doesn't David Johnson play WR every snap? He's proven he can get open more than Wherethehellisabella.

I thought that last night. In the first half after he whiffed on that block I was so mad I didn't want him to play another down all year. But it's so obvious that he's a matchup nightmare as a receiver if we're going to have him on the active roster, play him and use him as a receiver. One of the Kliff cute plays that infuriated me yesterday was a play where all 3 RB's were in, Drake, Edmonds and DJ. Edmonds was split out wide came in motion and then went back where he came from and we threw the ball to him with room to run but he dropped it. 3 RB's on the field, one as good a receiving RB as there is(DJ) one a good receiving RB(Drake) and one who's not a good receiver(Edmonds) so we throw the ball to Chase? It was trying to be clever, they're going to expect us to throw to DJ or Drake so we're throwing to Edmonds, yeah and he dropped it which is why they don't expect us to throw to him he's a very small catch radius guy as a receiver out of the backfield.

When DJ is in the game use him in the passing game, he's our 3rd best receiver and he sure isn't doing anything as a RB.

 

[iLLmatiC]

my biggest gripe with Kyler so far this season is that for a guy people were touting as a transcendent talent I just haven't seen him... well... transcend the talent around him at the end of games. Haven't seen him really be that kind of magician the great ones all have inside of them when the chips are down. I mean... you could argue he flashed it in the Detroit game and the Cincy game at the end... but those are two of the worst teams in the league... and both were at the beginning of the year.

And all the other times haven't just been disappointing... they've looked disastrous.

Against the Ravens, i believe we had the ball twice in the fourth quarter down 23-17 and the offense which had played ok all game was laughably bad.

Against the Bucs, late in the game we have a chance to step on their throat... he throws a pick. We then get the ball back with about 1:30 to play, down just a FG and the two minute drill is beyond pathetic.

Against the Niners in San Fran, the D gets us a HUGE turnover with 4 minutes left and all we have to do is get a couple first downs. On 3rd down, Kyler runs right into a sack. Makes nothing happen. The Niners score, we get the ball back with about 30 seconds left and again, we don't even gain a single yard.

And today, my lord... again, one of the worst two minute offenses ever. First, he steps up into the pocket, someone sneezes on him and he falls down. 2nd down, he gets out of the pocket... and drops the ball on the ground. 3rd and 4th down, he gets out of the pocket... and can't make any play whatsoever.

Am I asking that he wins ALL of those games? Not even remotely. But we couldn't even get 10 yards in potential game-winning drives in ANY of them.

That concerns me... not that he won't be a good QB. I definitely see how he could become that with the right O-line, more weapons and better coaching. It's that intangible "magic" at magic time that has been sorely lacking that I'm talking about... that thing that can't be coached. That I do wonder if he has.

Thanks for taking the time to summarize Murray this year so far, or his blunders. He's made great plays throughout the game but like you said, withstanding a couple of games, he hasn't delivered us a victory when the game was on the line. Any of the other elites like Brees, Wilson, etc with 2 minutes left, you just know they are going to will their team to victory. We haven't even seen anything remotely close in Kyler, it's like the guy totally crumbles and forgets how to play football. That 2 min drill in yesterdays game was completely embarrassing. I hope he takes the poor performance of this season personally in the off-season and works on every facet in his game that is lacking which is basically everything at this point with the exception of ball accuracy.

 

[speedy]

While I’m enjoying reading this thread, I don’t believe we are going to be making any moves anytime soon. The roster will churn, but SK, KK, and KM will be safe for the 2020 season. I wasn’t a fan of either the KK hire nor the KM pick, but I think making any changes to the above mentioned 3 would be completely *******.

If we were to make a move at GM, this would be a good year to do so from a cap standpoint, but if the GM isn’t 100% on board with KK, that GM will spend his honeymoon season allowing KK to seal his own fate so he can hire who he wants in 2021. That’s a whole lot of changes in the 3-year period post-Arians.

The best course of action at this point is to take no action. You made your bed, now lay in it. IMHO.

This will be SK’s last off season to ink a bunch of contracts that will either pay off in the W column next year, or set us back through the 2023 season. The cardinals will most definitely need to have good years from 2025-2030, because they’ll be asking for a new stadium at that point.

 

[Matt L]

so, you wan to allow Keim to go hog wild with 70 million bucks that could cripple our cap moving forward and allow him to blow another first pick, which will be in the top 5? Both of those moves won't just hurt next year, but for years to come.

this team HAS to learn lessons from the Suns. they can not continue to give the keys to the castle to a guy in an off-season as critical as the next one. The Suns did that with lame-duck McD who proceeded to draft Ayton over Doncic, use all of our cap room on one the worst FA we've ever signed with Ariza, spent 2 first round picks on a 4th SF who's ceiling is role player AND hired the worst coach in the history of the the team. And guess what... that pretty describes Keim's 2018 when he made the worst QB FA signing ever, blew our 1st round and multiple other picks on Rosen and hired the worst HC in team history on the way to our worst record ever.

Then he turned around this year in 2019... and made a complete overhaul to the team... hired another coach who looks pretty terrible, leading the team to what looks like... a half game difference?

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Letting this complete and utter failure continue making the biggest decisions this team can make will only lead to more failure.

If it were up to me, I would fire Keim. But it isn't up to me and I get the feeling that Bidwill is comfortable with Keim. No matter who is in charge I want them to actually spend on free agents to fill the glaring holes on this team.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think it was K9 who said in the game thread (or another one) that Murray doesn't seem to have any "dog" in him. I feel like that was a very astute observation.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Starting all over? A year from now?

So we are saying if Murray doesn't bail out Kingsbury and Keim, it will be 6 years, at the minimum before this team is competitive.

Financial suicide.

With the Raiders going to Las Vegas? This could be a permanent dive for the organization

Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Well, at lesst we passed on Lamar Jackson, he cannot throw a football........ugh.

Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

 

[SoonerLou]

I think it was K9 who said in the game thread (or another one) that Murray doesn't seem to have any "dog" in him. I feel like that was a very astute observation.

So let me get this straight.

He comes back from down 18 in his first career game after being awful for 3 Qrts. Its especially easy to chalk that game up as a loss.

He plays a couple of the best games against the Ravens and 49ers all season (best teams in the league)

Flawed pocket pressence, physically not the strongest, spotty accuracy at times, etc all true.

No dog though? A guy who wouldn't be in the league at that size if he didn't any competitive edge.

This board has officially jumped the shark.