Mini Mariota

[Arz101]

When will be the next time Cardinals will have 74 million in cap space and a top 5 pick? If you are Bidwill are you sure you can trust Keim one last time?

Bidwill showed loyalty for three great seasons Keim put together. Now four seasons have passed and a winning record feels farther and farther away. Doesn't Bidwill have to wonder if it was Keim or Arians now?

If it doesn't work next season, will it take another half decade to get the franchise back to winning? That will make it a lost decade.

I truly believe Bidwill is at a crossroads. He has the franchise all to himself for the first time after Bidwill Sr. passed away this fall.

Must be a nerve racking time at the offices in Hardy Dr as season winds down.

Sent from my 6060S using Tapatalk

 

[Russ Smith]

Interesting stat highest completion rate on deep passes(they didn't define what deep means).

1 Jimmy G 56%
2 Dak Prescott 46%
T3 Kirk Cousins, Kyler Murray, Russell Wilson 44%

SF is 2nd, Dallas 10th, Minnesota 4th, Seattle 3rd in rushing yards(Ravens have 700 yards more rushing than SF does!).

And then there's the outlier in the group, Arizona is 15th in rushing yards and I haven't even adjusted by removing QB rushing stats which would obviously drop us considerably lower (we'd be the only team on the top group under 1000 yards rushing).

Makes you wonder are we that effective because we don't throw deep that often, my guess is no, I think it clearly says we should be throwing deep more often.

Hopefully our young Wr's get much better next year, and we're able to improve the OL and the WR position while still being able to address the defense.

 

[dscher]

Well, at lesst we passed on Lamar Jackson, he cannot throw a football........ugh.

Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

Fortunately for him he wasn't drafted by the Cardinals. I don't believe for one second he would have anywhere near the success here that he is currently having in Baltimore.

 

[Chopper0080]

So let me get this straight.

He comes back from down 18 in his first career game after being awful for 3 Qrts. Its especially easy to chalk that game up as a loss.

He plays a couple of the best games against the Ravens and 49ers all season (best teams in the league)

Flawed pocket pressence, physically not the strongest, spotty accuracy at times, etc all true.

No dog though? A guy who wouldn't be in the league at that size if he didn't any competitive edge.

This board has officially jumped the shark.

Anytime you have an introvert as your leader, this will be a concern. It doesn't mean that it can't be overcome, but it is a concern. Personally, I don't doubt that Murray "wants" to win, but I do wonder if he has that rare trait where he will do whatever it takes because he "needs" to win.

You don't find it the least bit concerning that Murray seems to ignore WRs he doesn't quote "trust" instead of doing what every announcer has told us over the years and get the ball back to that player to give them another shot? Some of it is the plays, but some of it is the QB dictating who to get the ball to.

I don't bring these things up to pile on Murray. They are observations that I feel have merit at this point of his career.

Completely out of left field. I am shocked we have not heard the first one in the building, last one to leave comment regarding Murray this year. I don't know that it means anything one way or the other, but normally when things are going poorly, this is what you hear.

 

[SoonerLou]

Anytime you have an introvert as your leader, this will be a concern. It doesn't mean that it can't be overcome, but it is a concern. Personally, I don't doubt that Murray "wants" to win, but I do wonder if he has that rare trait where he will do whatever it takes because he "needs" to win.

You don't find it the least bit concerning that Murray seems to ignore WRs he doesn't quote "trust" instead of doing what every announcer has told us over the years and get the ball back to that player to give them another shot? Some of it is the plays, but some of it is the QB dictating who to get the ball to.

I don't bring these things up to pile on Murray. They are observations that I feel have merit at this point of his career.

Completely out of left field. I am shocked we have not heard the first one in the building, last one to leave comment regarding Murray this year. I don't know that it means anything one way or the other, but normally when things are going poorly, this is what you hear.

Questioning his work ethic and his heart

If we had 3 defensive stops this year we'd be 6-7

I'm sorry for I've rarely see a rookie QBs heart and work ethic questioned this early while still being productive. Usually those observations come in time.

I call it like it is. There is a lot of confirmation bias going on lately. He's just played awful and leave it that.

Its like claiming Kliff's in over his head because as a posters said he's got a scared look on the sidelines and question his decision to be with/break up with instagram girl.

 

[Chopper0080]

Questioning his work ethic and his heart

If we had 3 defensive stops this year we'd be 6-7

I'm sorry for I've rarely see a rookie QBs heart and work ethic questioned this early while still being productive. Usually those observations come in time.

I call it like it is. There is a lot of confirmation bias going on lately. He's just played awful and leave it that.

Its like claiming Kliff's in over his head because as a posters said he's got a scared look on the sidelines and question his decision to be with/break up with instagram girl.

His work ethic and leadership were in question pre-draft. Most of those articles have been cited on this board.

In the Klemko article, Riley said that Murray was not a consistently vocal leader, but he could get there if he needed to.

There was an article where he was cited for not being a "grinder" as a football player.

He rubbed people wrong in the pre-draft process and in interviews.

I can understand that you may not view these pre-draft articles/news as relevant as I do, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Let's not pretend like all talented QBs who make it to the NFL succeed. A lot of them fail, and those reasons are consistently that they don't have the drive to put in the work that is required and that they struggle to get grown adults to do whatever it takes to not let their QB down.

 

[kerouac9]

Questioning his work ethic and his heart

If we had 3 defensive stops this year we'd be 6-7

I'm sorry for I've rarely see a rookie QBs heart and work ethic questioned this early while still being productive. Usually those observations come in time.

I call it like it is. There is a lot of confirmation bias going on lately. He's just played awful and leave it that.

Its like claiming Kliff's in over his head because as a posters said he's got a scared look on the sidelines and question his decision to be with/break up with instagram girl.

Yes. You, SoonerLou, are the only objective evaluator of Kyler Murray's potential.

You must be registered for see images attach

Kyler Murray was definitely well prepared and showing a sense of urgency when he wet the bed on another chance to win the game.

 

[SoonerLou]

Yes. You, SoonerLou, are the only objective evaluator of Kyler Murray's potential.

You must be registered for see images attach

Kyler Murray was definitely well prepared and showing a sense of urgency when he wet the bed on another chance to win the game.

He sucked that drive like he did most of the game. However, if we want to play that game.

Sure would have helped if Kliff didn't waste a timeout earlier that quarter.

Just like it would have helped if he didn't waste one that Tampa game and then call a running play on the opening of the two minute drive.

Gotta wonder how prepared he and the team are when the coach is doing that.

 

[SoonerLou]

His work ethic and leadership were in question pre-draft. Most of those articles have been cited on this board.

In the Klemko article, Riley said that Murray was not a consistently vocal leader, but he could get there if he needed to.

There was an article where he was cited for not being a "grinder" as a football player.

He rubbed people wrong in the pre-draft process and in interviews.

I can understand that you may not view these pre-draft articles/news as relevant as I do, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Let's not pretend like all talented QBs who make it to the NFL succeed. A lot of them fail, and those reasons are consistently that they don't have the drive to put in the work that is required and that they struggle to get grown adults to do whatever it takes to not let their QB down.

Some predraft and post draft

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“He’s shown he is willing to work and progress,” Kingsbury said of Murray. “He’s adjusted his game over the first month and a half to fit what we do offensively and limit his negative plays. He’s doing all the things that we’ve asked him to do, which has been huge.

“In this league, it’s sink or swim when it comes to preparation,” Kingsbury said. “We can have him as much as we have him, but to separate yourself, it’s what you do when you’re not here, and he’s definitely taken that to heart.”

“He continues on a steady climb, even against some very good teams,” Kingsbury said. “There will be some bumps in the road. We know that. But he’s putting in the work and I think it’s showing on Sundays.”

https://www.azcardinals.com/news/the-maturation-of-kyler-murray

@kerouac9 Should we question Kliff's validity or take his word. Maybe these are the bumps?

 

[BW52]

Fortunately for him he wasn't drafted by the Cardinals. I don't believe for one second he would have anywhere near the success here that he is currently having in Baltimore.

I don`t believe he would have only won 3 games as a rookie QB either.Better than that.

 

[SoonerLou]

I don`t believe he would have only won 3 games as a rookie QB either.Better than that.

I actually agree..

Assuming he wasn't ruined last year and assuming Kliff adapts to his talent. A 2nd year playing Lamar would have won more games this year. Also because of his physicality it would be easier to commit to the run game.

The fear is he'd probably be likely to get injured on this team. Ravens have a top 5 Oline.

 

[WildBB]

I actually agree..

Assuming he wasn't ruined last year and assuming Kliff adapts to his talent. A 2nd year playing Lamar would have won more games this year. Also because of his physicality it would be easier to commit to the run game.

The fear is he'd probably be likely to get injured on this team. Ravens have a top 5 Oline.

Right...build a legit OL ~ Run game, THEN talk about Murray's lacking in the upcoming seasons.

 

[Chopper0080]

Some predraft and post draft

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https://www.azcardinals.com/news/the-maturation-of-kyler-murray

@kerouac9 Should we question Kliff's validity or take his word. Maybe these are the bumps?

I obviously look at these is a different light than you. A fair counterpoint to what I am going to say is probably that Murray can't win for losing with me.

Of course he is working hard pre draft. That is the point. Where the question lies is how hard did he grind at Oklahoma. That was mixed from pre-draft reports.

The quotes from his HC and Jurecki (in May) I also roll my eyes at. If Kliff hasn't thrown Peterson under the bus, there is no chance he is throwing his hand-picked rookie QB under the bus. And, at that point in time, Jurecki was spinning positive vibes for the fan base.

 

[BW52]

I actually agree..

Assuming he wasn't ruined last year and assuming Kliff adapts to his talent. A 2nd year playing Lamar would have won more games this year. Also because of his physicality it would be easier to commit to the run game.

The fear is he'd probably be likely to get injured on this team. Ravens have a top 5 Oline.

A Rookie Lamar would win more than 3 games with this AZ team IMHO.Lamar played with lesser talent in college and was used to being the main guy on offense .Of course its all speculation on all our parts but the fact remains Lamar has proved his doubters wrong.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Kyler is a Rookie QB on a team devoid of talent.

There is only one person to blame for this roster.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Kyler is a Rookie QB on a team devoid of talent.

There is only one person to blame for this roster.

Agreed!

Our talent is so ugly right now.

Our situations are completely different to the likes of Baltimore or even San Fran. Our roster is PUTRID. #KeimMustGoTime

 

[SoonerLou]

I obviously look at these is a different light than you. A fair counterpoint to what I am going to say is probably that Murray can't win for losing with me.

Of course he is working hard pre draft. That is the point. Where the question lies is how hard did he grind at Oklahoma. That was mixed from pre-draft reports.

The quotes from his HC and Jurecki (in May) I also roll my eyes at. If Kliff hasn't thrown Peterson under the bus, there is no chance he is throwing his hand-picked rookie QB under the bus. And, at that point in time, Jurecki was spinning positive vibes for the fan base.

Say no more.

You just said before you wanted to hear about his work ethic. Now that there is proof Kliff propping up his work ethic....well it's no longer relevant.

We all have blind spots. Time will tell if Kyler works out or not.

 

[Solar7]

Say no more.

You just said before you wanted to hear about his work ethic. Now that there is proof Kliff propping up his work ethic....well it's no longer relevant.

We all have blind spots. Time will tell if Kyler works out or not.

I said this in another thread, but puff pieces by AZCardinals.com, a very biased source, are poor choices to make an argument. Of course it's going to be painted positively. What is Kliff supposed to say? "We expect him to struggle and his work ethic isn't what I thought?" Even if it were true, he'd never say it, especially not to the team site.

 

[SoonerLou]

I said this in another thread, but puff pieces by AZCardinals.com, a very biased source, are poor choices to make an argument. Of course it's going to be painted positively. What is Kliff supposed to say? "We expect him to struggle and his work ethic isn't what I thought?" Even if it were true, he'd never say it, especially not to the team site.

This applies to every player in the league. Thats the point.

We could theorize about the lack of work ethic of every individual. His point was that we didn't hear about it. I posted that we have heard some positive work ethic reports.

My overall point is whether Kyler is good or not...will not be because of work ethic (at least at this point). It may be that he's not big enough. It may be that he is dependent too much on his athleticism instead of having a gift for pocket pressence. It may be that he simply isn't an expert reader of defenses.

When we jump to work ethic without any shred of it during his NFL tenure....is purely guess work.

 

[SoonerLou]

A Rookie Lamar would win more than 3 games with this AZ team IMHO.Lamar played with lesser talent in college and was used to being the main guy on offense .Of course its all speculation on all our parts but the fact remains Lamar has proved his doubters wrong.

I don't know about that. Lamar admitted that he had trouble throwing a spiral with an NFL football his rookie year.

 

[BW52]

I don't know about that. Lamar admitted that he had trouble throwing a spiral with an NFL football his rookie year.

No you don`t know .Neither do i.But I do know Lamar took over for a struggling veteran QB and had a 6-1 record as a starting QB as a rookie.Hard work and coaching have helped him improve and he says he has more work to get even better.His completion % is nearly 67 % and that's better than his college stats.He likely will never be a picture perfect pretty boy passer but he gets the job done and does what matters most.WINS. A 17-3 record as a starting QB is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Chopper0080]

This applies to every player in the league. Thats the point.

We could theorize about the lack of work ethic of every individual. His point was that we didn't hear about it. I posted that we have heard some positive work ethic reports.

My overall point is whether Kyler is good or not...will not be because of work ethic (at least at this point). It may be that he's not big enough. It may be that he is dependent too much on his athleticism instead of having a gift for pocket pressence. It may be that he simply isn't an expert reader of defenses.

When we jump to work ethic without any shred of it during his NFL tenure....is purely guess work.

Just to clarify...it is not that I think Murray has a poor work ethic. My concern is that because he has so many innate obstacles to overcome, if he has even an average work ethic, he will likely fail or be average at best.

Because Lamar Jackson was brought up in this thread, I will point out that one reason Lamar has seen his game jump was an increased focus and work in the offseason. Murray will have this same opportunity to remake and improve his body and his fundamentals in the offseason...we will see if demonstrates a similar commitment.

 

[cardncubfan]

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti...redskins_haskins_could_rise/s1_13132_30785147

 

[blindseyed]

We need an OL , we need an OL, we need an OL... guess what? We've never had a good OL and there's absolutely NO reason to think we'll have one next year lol so Murray is gonna have to figure out how to play behind bad to average at best

 

[WildBB]

We need an OL , we need an OL, we need an OL... guess what? We've never had a good OL and there's absolutely NO reason to think we'll have one next year lol so Murray is gonna have to figure out how to play behind bad to average at best

Yes somewhat, but the run game has to be a viable option to start games as well. KK wanted to do that THIS year, but we've seen how that's worked out.