MJ on Cards losing a week of practice due to violations

[CaptTurbo]

I look at it like this from Greens perspective. Its like a filtering system. Kinda liek "Remember the titans". Lets push them hard and see who comes together and who cries like a baby. then filter out the crybabies.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

I don't understand the anger directed towards the players when it was the coach who broke the rules.

Because we sucked last year. Most of the players on this team DOn't know what it takes to win.

 

[maddogkf]

Because we sucked last year. Most of the players on this team DOn't know what it takes to win.

just last year?

you're too nice

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Because we sucked last year. Most of the players on this team DOn't know what it takes to win.

I don't see the correlation between breaking the rules put in place by the NFL regarding mini-camp practices and winning games in the fall.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't see the correlation between breaking the rules put in place by the NFL regarding mini-camp practices and winning games in the fall.

The perception is we lost because Mac ran a country club practice. I'm sure it's not that simple but that is the perception.

So even if DG is going to the opposite extreme, people are supporting it because the old way didn't work.

I am with you, the rules are in place for a reason, if they're being broken the players have a right to say so without reprisal. If they're complaining about practices that don't violate rules, that's different.

 

[C-MACK]

I look at it like this from Greens perspective. Its like a filtering system. Kinda liek "Remember the titans". Lets push them hard and see who comes together and who cries like a baby. then filter out the crybabies.

Remember the Titans was about a bunch of highschool kids & a highschool coach. These guys are multi-million dollar making pro athletes, and one would hope that DG realizes there is a difference. Then again, you may have a point, that highschool team didn't have chiropractors, nutritionists, and massage therapists, and they managed to win .Of course, that happened about 40 years ago, but still

 

[Kel Varnsen]

If they broke the rules, they deserve to be punished.

What's concerning me now are the reports that players were demoted and had competition brought in as a punishment for what they did.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I dont think anyone is suprised, just a little bothered that these players would complain.

Darn tootin'

Someone should inform the Arizona Cardinals of 2004 that they sucked last year. They were one of the most out of shape, and un-atheletic teams I ever saw. They were an embarrasement to football.

Now these MULTI-MILLIONAIRES complain they are being worked to hard?

F-Them. From the bottom of my heart. They don't deserve fans like us who support them even in the darkest of times.

Hard work pays off in victories in the regular season. ANd noticably our fat lazy players should know somethin' about it since they are pitiful and get there butt's handed to them every year.

I am not saying that the Player, and the league are wrong since they did what they are supposed to do. I am not saying that Green is wrong for pushing them harder.

What I am saying is that these players who complained should not be surprise when they are cut in a year or team. If they can't even get through a mini-camp how do they expect to perform during the season.

I tell you the more and more I read, and learn about this team the more I see that there is something wrong with this team's attitude. There MUST be a ring of players on the Cardinals that are lazy, slackers that continue to pull this team down to the bush league grab @ss football that we are accustomed to seeing.

Peace

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I don't understand the anger directed towards the players when it was the coach who broke the rules.

If they won the superbowl last year then you might get some sympathy from me.

But they suck, and this team has sucked badly for to many years.

You work hard, and it pays off. You don't and you lose.

For weeks we have heard about the country club attitude this team has had for the last couple of years.

Then some ball buster finally tries to whip them into shape and they complain? I find that to be lazy. I am not an NFL player, and have no idea the circumstances of this "practice rule" but as a normal work everyday guy I see it to be lazy.

As I said before Player is in the right, so is the league, AND Green is wrong. The problem I have is: Where the players really being pushed to hard, or are they just complaining cause the free ride is over.

But it don't matter, none of this matters. On a team that had performed so badly for so long NOBODY is a starter for this team or is irreplaceable. If some guys are scared of workin' hard FINE, it will show when the season comes about and they will be sent packing.

BTW - Hard work and pysical work at practice PREVENTS injury it does not cause it. Better to get your body used to getting banged up now and not what till the 1st game to get hurt. You gotta prepare you body to be beaten on or you won't make it through 3 weeks.

Peace

 

[Russ Smith]

Then some ball buster finally tries to whip them into shape and they complain? I find that to be lazy. I am not an NFL player, and have no idea the circumstances of this "practice rule" but as a normal work everyday guy I see it to be lazy.


BTW - Hard work and pysical work at practice PREVENTS injury it does not cause it. Better to get your body used to getting banged up now and not what till the 1st game to get hurt. You gotta prepare you body to be beaten on or you won't make it through 3 weeks.

Peace

Disagree with both points. Guys were not complaining about hard work they were complaining about things that were CBA violations. nobody said hey player DG is running us too long or Deek is swearing at us, they said he's breaking the rules by running 11 on 11 in pads this time of year.

Point 2, yes being in shape helps prevent injuries, but hitting and practicing in pads DOES lead to more injuries, that's why there's a constant give and take in the NFL among coaches over how much to do it. There's a constant cycle one team wins with little contact in practice and everyone jumps on the bandwagon, then when they lose, they increase the contact hoping that will fix the problem.

There were a ton of reasons Mac had to go and no doubt practice level was one of them. But that doesn't mean go to an extreme the other way.

If at your job they brought in new management who started breaking rules would you not complain if there was a rule in place to do so?

The big concern here for me is DID DG demote guys because they complained? If he did, this might not be the last we hear of this from
the league.

 

[earthsci]

The big concern here for me is DID DG demote guys because they complained? If he did, this might not be the last we hear of this from
the league.

Wasn't everyone who was demoted injured and not practicing, except for Marcel Shipp? I doubt the ones who weren't practicing were the ones complaining about the practice.

 

[Skkorpion]

Russ:

They ran 11 on 11 with NO PADS. Pads are not allowed in minicamps. That's why the players were so pissed. And the hitting was very physical with pileups.

 

[ajcardfan]

The big concern here for me is DID DG demote guys because they complained? If he did, this might not be the last we hear of this from the league.

Totally impossible to prove, unless Green and his coaches were so stupid as to say that was the reason.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Russ:

They ran 11 on 11 with NO PADS. Pads are not allowed in minicamps. That's why the players were so pissed. And the hitting was very physical with pileups.

I'd be upset, too, if I was one of them. That just seems very dangerous to me.

Actually, I am upset now, just as a fan. I don't want my players out there taking those kinds of risks! Geez.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ:

They ran 11 on 11 with NO PADS. Pads are not allowed in minicamps. That's why the players were so pissed. And the hitting was very physical with pileups.

Thanks for the correction on the pads Skorp.

Pads are both good and bad they absorb somethings, and can be used as a weapon in other ways.

AJ, not saying that's what happened just asking the question, if Green really did bring in competition for player because he filed the protest for example, the league will probably look at that too.

Or if what skorp said about D Jax is true, that he exaggerated the injury to get out of the stuff violating the rules, then you have a question of is that the real reason he's not in the official starting lineup. I make no claim to know the answer I am just asking the question.

 

[speedy]

I have to agree with rugbymuffin here. Bottom line, the bottom line- you are an entertainer. Period. You have a privaleged job that pays you extremely well (financed by people like us) to work your ass off and perform. I am sorry you chose not to play baseball, where your longevity can be 5x longer. The lowest paid guy on this team in one year (6 months at that) what takes me about 6-7 years to gross. And I am a firefighter, so I dont want to hear about hazardous situations that could end a career. They get blind sided in practice and spend 9 months rehabing an ACL... I step off the truck and get plowed by a car... And as he stated, they flat out sucked (lets just say SUCK) and we have not had our moneys worth. I am very pro union, belong to one of the biggest unions in north America, so I can sympathize with that which is bad policy. You cant fight for your rights and policies than undermind all your work by letting things slide. But a balance must be considered. A little harder work to get the job done or at least put the critics at bay doesnt hurt anyone. Its funny, with all the provisions we have set forth in our jobs of whats expected, to grossly under achieve them would have us all with a fistfull of w-2's at years end. They could be out there finishing concrete, working out of a cubicle, or selling water softeners. "Hello, my name is Lennard, welcome to walmart..." Yeah, thats great, give my kids a sticker and get out of the way. That is where I would see that guy. Whatever. Remember the Rams of 98 bithin about the same stuff with Dick V.? They only won a Superbowl and became nearly a dynasty by todays standard. They better win some games...

 

[ajcardfan]

My primary concern when Skorp first reported it was twofold, we could ultimately lose a draft pick, and didn't DG learn anything from what happened to him in Minnesota? Jim O made it clear the Cards were VERY aware of the heat and importance of hydrating players so I dropped that one, but we
are lucky we didn't get a bigger penalty, like losing a pick next year.

Russ, it was Green who pushed for the team to stay up North longer this year. That's why they'll be in Prescott for a couple of weeks after they'd normally be back here.

As for the intensity of the practices, I loved it and still do. We've had players far too comfortable for far too long here. This "price" is well worth it. Fortunately no one got badly injured.

 

[seesred]

A person generally works 50 nweeks a year, assuming he has a vaction coming. Most don't make what some of us would call a living wage. Wal mart as an example has full time people making less then ten dollars per hour. About 20K per year. They have to work hard all the time. They don't get off 4 months or more per year to prepare for the job.

The NFL has rules for a reason. Players unions ask for more so the players work less. I have no problem with this at all. I have no problem with Green being reminded that he is playing in the grey area. The areas I would have a problem with are as follows.

Players who need the work looking for ways out of the work.
Players being dropped or have their position takin from them when the team does not play by the rules.(could we be talking about Shipp?)
Players not in shape prior to camp.
Players taking this into the clubhouse and break down what coach is trying to instill, If you want it you have to work for it!

Our team came out of last year with very seriuos problems as it relates to football. You will never fix those problems without very hard decisions and very hard phyisical work. You can't work in this heat without proper water breaks, but you can and must work hard when you are supposed to.

GBR
40

 

[CaptTurbo]

I agree with both sides....this suck But maybe there should be a special union rule. If you are the worst for over a generation there are no rules anymore for you! lol

 

[C-MACK]

BTW - Hard work and pysical work at practice PREVENTS injury it does not cause it. Better to get your body used to getting banged up now and not what till the 1st game to get hurt. You gotta prepare you body to be beaten on or you won't make it through 3 weeks.

Wasn't it the 49ers who during their heyday very rarely practiced in pads? If I remember correctly those guys were pretty good and relatively injury free for a long time. Unfortunately hard work doesn't necessarily translate into wins. If your working hard, getting people injured, and demoralizing your team, I don't think thats necassarily a good thing.

 

[Russ Smith]

Wasn't it the 49ers who during their heyday very rarely practiced in pads? If I remember correctly those guys were pretty good and relatively injury free for a long time. Unfortunately hard work doesn't necessarily translate into wins. If your working hard, getting people injured, and demoralizing your team, I don't think thats necassarily a good thing.

Walsh felt teams hit too much in practice and it resulted in too many injuries.
Then the league went the other way and its' swung back and forth since. DG is a Walsh disciple so I'd be surprised if he's wildly opposed to what Walsh did.

Someone asked if the guys demoted weren't all injured, that doesn't mean they couldn't have been ones who complained. Basically all it took was enough players complaining to get Player to file a formal complaint and that
means anybody who was there to see it. We have no idea what happened but just because Jackson was hurt doesn't mean he didn't disagree with the CBA violations and complain to Player. We just don't know, and I should probably stop speculating since I have no idea if that happened or not.

 

[JeffGollin]

They ran 11 on 11 with NO PADS. Pads are not allowed in minicamps. That's why the players were so pissed. And the hitting was very physical with pileups.
I don't recall Jurecki mentioning anything about pads vs. no pads on TV last night. And I must have missed this particular issue in Skkorp's earlier coverage (although I do vaguely remember Jim referring to some of the players grousing about being worked hard).

The issue of whether or not Denny deserved to have his knuckles rapped is one topic that can be debated seperately. But a seperate issue - and one that has me very concerned - is whether or not (fairly or unfairly) there will be retribution by the coaching staff and management over this and whether there may be a degree of player vs. player friction as well.

I'm not saying there definitely will be fallout. I'm just saying the potential for it is there, and it makes me very nervous.

 

[RedStorm]

Russ:

They ran 11 on 11 with NO PADS. Pads are not allowed in minicamps. That's why the players were so pissed. And the hitting was very physical with pileups.

What exactly is the rule? What could they have done without violating the rule. 10 on 10 instead of 11 on 11???

 

[Kel Varnsen]

What exactly is the rule? What could they have done without violating the rule. 10 on 10 instead of 11 on 11???

Yeah. Minus the center and minus one DT. It's tough to get the plays off that way...keeps guys from getting hurt.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

They ran 11 on 11 with NO PADS. Pads are not allowed in minicamps. [/COLOR]

Whoop T Do!

Every practice and game I play we don't got pads. It is nothing a rugby player making a .1% of these guys salary wouldn't do. It actually lessens the chance for a bid impact.

Peace