Mock Draft - 5 of 7 rounds done for the Cards

[Cardiac]

Here is how the 1st round went down:

1 - Colts --Andrew Luck, QB - Stanford
2 - Dolphins—Robert Griffin III, QB - Baylor
3 - Vikings Morris Claiborne ,CB - LSU
4 - Browns—Quentin Coples, DE/DT - North Carolina
5 - Buccaneers- Trent Richardson, RB - Alabama
6 - Bills—Justin Blackmon, WR - Oklahoma State
7 - Chiefs—Matt Kalil, OT - USC
8 - Rams- Riley Reiff, OT - Iowa
9 - Panthers-Michael Brockers, DT, LSU
10 - Redskins-Michael Floyd, WR, ND
11 - Eagles- Luke Kuechly, LB - Boston College
12 - Packers-Courtney Upshaw, DE/OLB - Alabama
13 - Cardinals -David DeCastro, OG - Stanford
14 - Cowboys- Dre Kirkpatrick, CB - Alabama
15 - Lions - Whitney Mercilus, DE - Illinois
16 - Eagles - Kendall Wright, WR - Baylor
17 - Bengals - Janoris Jenkins, CB - North Alabama
18 - Chargers - Jonathan Martin, OT - Stanford
19 - Bears -Cordy Glenn, OG - Georgia
20 - Texans -Mark Barron, SS - Alabama
21 - Bills -Melvin Ingram, DE -South Carolina
22 - Browns -Ryan Tannehill, QB/WR, Texas A&M
23 - Jaguars -Rueben Randle, WR, LSU
24 - Rams -Devon Still, DT, PSU
25 - Broncos -David Wilson, RB, VT
26 - Titans -Peter Konz, C, WIS
27 - Patriots -Fletcher Cox, DL, MSST
28 - Seahawks - Nick Perry, DE -USC
29 - Ravens - Dont'a Hightower, LB - Albama
30 - 49ers - Mohamed Sanu, WR - Rutgers
31 - Patriots - Alfonzo Dennard, CB - Nebraska
32 - Dolphins - Mike Adams, OT - Ohio State

Thanks for the info and kudos for representing the Cards well.

I really like the pick of DeCastro based on who was left. Knowing that LT is a need but taking the best O-lineman available was the right call IMHO. Of course as the draft gets closer Martin may be graded close to DeCastro and if so I wouldn't be shocked if the Cards go for Martin.

If you do another one don't worry about the perception that RG won't trade down go ahead and do it. Cordy Glen or Martin later in rd1 while picking up a
2nd rd pick would be the way to go IMWO.

Seahawks did a nice job trading down and getting Perry.

If Kalil drops to the 7th pick I'd be shocked.

Does anyone really think Poe drops into the 2nd rd?

 

[kerouac9]

Martin 6'6" - 304 - LT

Whis's handpicked tackles since he's gotten here:

Mike Gandy - 6'4", 310 lbs
Oliver Ross - 6'5", 317 lbs
Levi Brown - 6'6", 323 lbs
Brandon Keith - 6'5", 343 lbs

I'm sure it's simply coincidental that every tackle the Cards have brought in have been 310 lbs or above. It's probably not that we like bigger tackles and smaller guards.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Whis's handpicked tackles since he's gotten here:

Mike Gandy - 6'4", 310 lbs
Oliver Ross - 6'5", 317 lbs
Levi Brown - 6'6", 323 lbs
Brandon Keith - 6'5", 343 lbs

I'm sure it's simply coincidental that every tackle the Cards have brought in have been 310 lbs or above. It's probably not that we like bigger tackles and smaller guards.

You said he was too small. Somehow I don't think that at his height and frame, Martin would have much problem putting on the equivalent of a good dump for a kid that size. But, you may be right, Whiz may draw the line at 6lbs.

Interesting what you choose to respond to. Let's hear you on ILB's in the first round.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

You said he was too small. Somehow I don't think that at his height and frame, Martin would have much problem putting on the equivalent of a good dump for a kid that size. But, you may be right, Whiz may draw the line at 6 lbs

 

[kerouac9]

Let's hear you on ILB's in the first round.

Let's take ILBs from the first round from 2004 through 2009:

2004
Jonathan Vilma (12)
D.J. Williams (17)
2005
Derrick O. Johnson (15)
2006
A.J. Hawk (3)
Ernie Sims (9)
Chad Greenway (17)
Bobby Carpenter (18)
2007
Patrick Willis (11)
Lawrence Timmons (15)
Jon Beason (25)
2008
Keith Rivers (9)
Jerod Mayo (10)
2009
Aaron Curry (4)

Of those guys, Vilma, Johnson, Hawk, Sims, Carpenter, Rivers, and Curry all fall on the spectrum to major disappointments to outright busts. That's 7 of 13!

Now, here are the ILB types who were taken after the first round in that same time period:

2004
Karlos Dansby (34), Brandon Chillar (130)
2005
Barrett Ruud (36), Kevin Burnett (42), Lofa Tatupu (45), Channing Crowder (70), Kirk Morrison (78), Leroy Hill (98), Michael Boley (160)
2006
DeMeco Ryans (33), D'Quell Jackson (34), Rocky McIntosh (35), Thomas Howard (38), Stephen Tulloch (116),
2007
Paul Posluzny (34), David Harris (47), Stewart Bradley (87), Desmond Bishop (192)
2008
Curtis Lofton (37), Dan Connor (74),
2009
James Laurinitis (35), Rey Maualuga (38), DeAnre Levy (76)

Now, of these guys, with the exception of Patrick Willis and Jerod Mayo, there isn't one that I wouldn't trade for one of these lower-drafted guys and a first-round pick.

It's not just there are busts at ILB in the first round--there are busts at every position in the first round of the draft. It's that more than almost every position in NFL defenses, ILB is a dependent position. If you don't have a good defensive line, I don't care if Patrick Willis and Ray Lewis are playing behind them, your first-round ILB is going to get swallowed up over and over.

I would rather invest my top picks in impact positions at OLB and DE on the defensive side of the football, where I know that they're going to make the guys behind them better. A great ILB doesn't make anyone on the defense better--ask the Carolina Panthers or St. Louis Rams.

The more persuasive argument against the Cards taking an ILB in the first round is who they already have on the roster: Daryl Washington, Paris Lenon, and Stewart Bradley.

Daryl Washington is a rising star, and while I don't think that he's going to be the all-pro player that the media relations guys are hyping him up to be, he's a centerpiece of the defense. Paris Lenon is apparently the leader of the defense and a guy that according to the defensive coordinator was playing almost mistake-free football all year long. Stewart Bradley is getting $5 million per year to (eventually) take Lenon's job. Where does a rookie first-round pick fit in?

My other argument is that this was a defense that was averaging 17 points a game down the stretch. What is the benefit that a rookie middle linebacker adds to that? Is it really going to be better than an elite pass rushing outside linebacker? I suppose that in a vacuum Kuechly might be the best defensive player available when the Cards go on the clock, but if that's the case then I think you trade out, because it's not clear that he has a roster spot or represents the kind of value that you want.

 

[kerouac9]

You said he was too small. Somehow I don't think that at his height and frame, Martin would have much problem putting on the equivalent of a good dump for a kid that size. But, you may be right, Whiz may draw the line at 6lbs.

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Don't see a lot of "fill out" space there. Also, Lott's instructions for pretty much every rookie coming into camp is to take weight off.

Keep in mind that this is a coaching staff who had Levi Brown rated ahead of both Joe Thomas and Joe Staley coming into the draft. It's certainly not because Brown was a superior athlete.

 

[52brandon]

Of those guys, Vilma, Johnson, Hawk, Sims, Carpenter, Rivers, and Curry all fall on the spectrum to major disappointments to outright busts. That's 7 of 13!

really? You'd consider Vilma and Hawk "major disappointments" at best? I would love to have either of em playing with Wash

 

[52brandon]

Don't see a lot of "fill out" space there

really? Just as a comparison. Look at his legs in the pic you posted and his arms in this one and compare them to Dockett here. If Martin could pack on the kinda muscle DD has, he'd be well over the 320lb mark. Probably be more in the 350 range

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[Crazy Canuck]

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Don't see a lot of "fill out" space there. Also, Lott's instructions for pretty much every rookie coming into camp is to take weight off.

Keep in mind that this is a coaching staff who had Levi Brown rated ahead of both Joe Thomas and Joe Staley coming into the draft. It's certainly not because Brown was a superior athlete.

I would imagine that Lott's message is tailored to need. Can't imagine he'd have suggested losing weight to your former whipping boy, D-Wash. You panned Martin based on size, if I read correctly, so fail to see the point of referencing Levi who you want the Cards to re-sign.

As for your later response on ILB's, had you said initially that with few exceptions you view the selection of ILB's in the first round as a waste, you'd have had my support.

 

[kerouac9]

really? You'd consider Vilma and Hawk "major disappointments" at best? I would love to have either of em playing with Wash

Vilma was traded from the Jets to the Saints when he was unable to make the transition to 3-4 ILB from what he played when he was a Rookie of the Year candidate (he might have won it for all I remember).

A.J. Hawk was a huge disappointment. He was the 5th overall pick in the draft and never became an impact player. The only reason he's still in Green Bay is because he decided to take a massive paycut. Don't be surprised if they come up to him again in two years for another contract re-do.

I'd rather have Daryl Washington than A.J. Hawk. I don't think you use the 5th overall pick on a linebacker and then are happy four years later when he might get mentioned among the top 20 ILBs in the NFL.

 

[kerouac9]

I would imagine that Lott's message is tailored to need. Can't imagine he'd have suggested losing weight to your former whipping boy, D-Wash. You panned Martin based on size, if I read correctly, so fail to see the point of referencing Levi who you want the Cards to re-sign.

I'm kind of agnostic on the question of whether or not Jonathan Martin will be a good player in the NFL overall. I actually tend to think that he'll be all right. He'll likely be a Max Baucus-level player when he develops. I don't think he'll be an elite left tackle for whoever drafts him, but that's mostly because I think that elite left tackles like Orlando Pace, Tony Boselli, Jonathan Ogden, and Walter Jones don't exist anymore--defensive ends have gotten too good.

My point is that the Cards aren't likely to be looking too closely at Martin for the same reason that they were willing to pass on Joes Thomas and Stayley: they don't fit the profile that Russ Grimm and Whisenhunt look for in an offensive tackle: bigger and more powerful to set the edge in the run game.

 

[Duckjake]

Vilma was traded from the Jets to the Saints when he was unable to make the transition to 3-4 ILB from what he played when he was a Rookie of the Year candidate (he might have won it for all I remember).

A.J. Hawk was a huge disappointment. He was the 5th overall pick in the draft and never became an impact player. The only reason he's still in Green Bay is because he decided to take a massive paycut. Don't be surprised if they come up to him again in two years for another contract re-do.

I'd rather have Daryl Washington than A.J. Hawk. I don't think you use the 5th overall pick on a linebacker and then are happy four years later when he might get mentioned among the top 20 ILBs in the NFL.

Who is talking about taking a WILB? Interesting that to bolster your point Paris Lenon suddenly becomes a stud SILB. Did you also notice that of the later round LBs you listed 12 were taken in the first 45 picks.

I have a feeling you are arguing just to argue again.

Paris Lenon and Stewart Bradley are most likely the worst combo of 3-4 SILB's in the league. If the Cards can get a stud for that position in round 1 I have no problem with their taking him. Especially since no matter who they draft for the oline will fail as long as Grimm is the offensive line coach.

 

[kerouac9]

Who is talking about taking a WILB? Interesting that to bolster your point Paris Lenon suddenly becomes a stud SILB. Did you also notice that of the later round LBs you listed 12 were taken in the first 45 picks.

I have a feeling you are arguing just to argue again.

Paris Lenon and Stewart Bradley are most likely the worst combo of 3-4 SILB's in the league. If the Cards can get a stud for that position in round 1 I have no problem with their taking him. Especially since no matter who they draft for the oline will fail as long as Grimm is the offensive line coach.

Where did I say that? I still think that both Paris Lenon and Stewart Bradley suck. But the coaches don't; they've been in love with Paris Lenon for two and a half years now, and someone loves Stewart Bradley a lot, as well. They're not going to draft an SILB for the same reason the Cards aren't going to draft a QB in the first round of this draft: They can't be sure what they have in their 2011 free agent until another season is past.

 

[Duckjake]

Where did I say that?..........

Here:

Paris Lenon is apparently the leader of the defense and a guy that according to the defensive coordinator was playing almost mistake-free football all year long.

I still think that both Paris Lenon and Stewart Bradley suck.

So how can you say that ILB is not a need area for Arizona? Just because the coaches think they are set with Lenon and Bradley? Sorry, these are the same coaches who thought they were set at OT with Keith and LBrown. The Cards need better players at SILB than "another team's Ron McKinnon".

 

[Cards Czar]

I am representing the Cards in a CBS forum mock draft. Here is how it is going so far, with what I hope will be the Cards 6th and 7th round picks if they are still available.


1 David DeCastro | Offensive guard | Stanford
3. Bobby Massie, OT, Miss
4. Aaron Henry, FS, Wisconsin
5. Emmanuel Acho, OLB, Texas


Possilbe 6th and 7th picks:
Keith Tandy, CB, West Virginia
Jordan White: WR, Western Michigan
Will Blackwell, C/OG, LSU

What do you guys think? Have I done us proud?

Well i went there and took a look and your draft in the 6 round is all messed up. The Cardinals have 2 picks and there is only one listed. Did you trade a 6th rounder?? Cound not find any posts stating that the pick we got from washington was traded?? If not then your draft is messed up.

Just Saying.

 

[kerouac9]

Here:






So how can you say that ILB is not a need area for Arizona? Just because the coaches think they are set with Lenon and Bradley? Sorry, these are the same coaches who thought they were set at OT with Keith and LBrown. The Cards need better players at SILB than "another team's Ron McKinnon".

There's a difference between what I think the Cards will do and what I would do if I were in charge of the Cards.

The Cards won't draft Keuchly because they have Paris Lenon and Stewart Bradley.

The Cards shouldn't draft Keuchly because there will be more valuable players at #13 overall and because the marginal benefit of drafting him would be smaller than drafting the best offensive lineman, wide receiver, tight end, defensive back, defensive end, outside linebacker, and nose tackle. Heck, the marginal benefit would be greater if they drafted a running back at 13th overall.

We were allowing 17 points a game over the last half of the season. What difference would a 20% upgrade over Paris Lenon make? Is Paris Lenon and Stewart Bradley holding us back from being the 2000 Ravens or the 1985 Bears? Really?

 

[Duckjake]

There's a difference between what I think the Cards will do and what I would do if I were in charge of the Cards.

The Cards won't draft Keuchly because they have Paris Lenon and Stewart Bradley.

The Cards shouldn't draft Keuchly because there will be more valuable players at #13 overall and because the marginal benefit of drafting him would be smaller than drafting the best offensive lineman, wide receiver, tight end, defensive back, defensive end, outside linebacker, and nose tackle. Heck, the marginal benefit would be greater if they drafted a running back at 13th overall.

We were allowing 17 points a game over the last half of the season. What difference would a 20% upgrade over Paris Lenon make? Is Paris Lenon and Stewart Bradley holding us back from being the 2000 Ravens or the 1985 Bears? Really?

SILB is the glaring hole in the defense. The Cards gave up 463 yards rushing combined in the last 3 games of the season. 7 teams rushed for 150 or more vs Arizona in 2011.

Is Levi Brown or Rex Hadnot holding Kevin Kolb back from being Drew Brees of 2012? Is Early Doucet and Andre Roberts holding us back from being the Rams of 1999-2001? Really?

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Well i went there and took a look and your draft in the 6 round is all messed up. The Cardinals have 2 picks and there is only one listed. Did you trade a 6th rounder?? Cound not find any posts stating that the pick we got from washington was traded?? If not then your draft is messed up.

Just Saying.

You are correct. They screwed me out of our Wash Pick in the 6th round. On top of that, right after that someone took the CB I had pegged with that pick. So our rounds 6 and 7 sort of got all messed up. I will know next time, if we do that again, that we are owed that pick. The person picking for Wash should have owned up to it when the pick came about......oh well, it was just for fun anyway.

We might do it all again, now that the combine is over. We will all have to choose new teams to pick for. So if any of you want to take the Cardinals, you will be welcome to join us. I will probably take the Colts during the next Mock draft, if we do one.

 

[52brandon]

Vilma was traded from the Jets to the Saints when he was unable to make the transition to 3-4 ILB from what he played when he was a Rookie of the Year candidate (he might have won it for all I remember).

A.J. Hawk was a huge disappointment. He was the 5th overall pick in the draft and never became an impact player. The only reason he's still in Green Bay is because he decided to take a massive paycut. Don't be surprised if they come up to him again in two years for another contract re-do.

I'd rather have Daryl Washington than A.J. Hawk. I don't think you use the 5th overall pick on a linebacker and then are happy four years later when he might get mentioned among the top 20 ILBs in the NFL.

Oh I'd definitely take Wash over Hawk. But I still would say Hawk is good. Vilma is better though. I still wouldn't be mad if I drafted either. Leinart, Levi Brown are busts. Hawk and Vilma aren't bad

 

[kerouac9]

SILB is the glaring hole in the defense. The Cards gave up 463 yards rushing combined in the last 3 games of the season. 7 teams rushed for 150 or more vs Arizona in 2011.

Is Levi Brown or Rex Hadnot holding Kevin Kolb back from being Drew Brees of 2012? Is Early Doucet and Andre Roberts holding us back from being the Rams of 1999-2001? Really?

Now you're exaggerating because you know you're wrong. The 2012 Cards don't need to be the 2011 Saints or the 2001 Rams to win 12 games if the defense can maintain their momentum.

The need to be the 2011 Bengals. Do I think that an extra wide receiver or a huge uppgrade at RT replacing Brandon Keith could prove the Cards' offense from 24th in the league in scoring to 14th? Yes. Yes, I do.

 

[Chopper0080]

There's a difference between what I think the Cards will do and what I would do if I were in charge of the Cards.

The Cards won't draft Keuchly because they have Paris Lenon and Stewart Bradley.

The Cards shouldn't draft Keuchly because there will be more valuable players at #13 overall and because the marginal benefit of drafting him would be smaller than drafting the best offensive lineman, wide receiver, tight end, defensive back, defensive end, outside linebacker, and nose tackle. Heck, the marginal benefit would be greater if they drafted a running back at 13th overall.

We were allowing 17 points a game over the last half of the season. What difference would a 20% upgrade over Paris Lenon make? Is Paris Lenon and Stewart Bradley holding us back from being the 2000 Ravens or the 1985 Bears? Really?

Yeah, this is why I'm not very high on Keuchly either. He is a good player, but he is a questionable fit for a 3-4 and he does not play an impact position. I would rather trade up for Bobby Wagner in the 2nd round if we wanted to upgrade at ILB than take Keuchly is the 1st. I can easily say I would rather have DeCastro, Ingram, Perry, Kendall Wright, Michael Floyd, or Cordy Glenn over Luke Keuchly.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Yeah, this is why I'm not very high on Keuchly either. He is a good player, but he is a questionable fit for a 3-4 and he does not play an impact position. I would rather trade up for Bobby Wagner in the 2nd round if we wanted to upgrade at ILB than take Keuchly is the 1st. I can easily say I would rather have DeCastro, Ingram, Perry, Kendall Wright, Michael Floyd, or Cordy Glenn over Luke Keuchly.

.... but, I do want him on the board when we pick.

I have the feeling that Philly would jump at getting him given their LB woes.

 

[Stout]

.... but, I do want him on the board when we pick.

I have the feeling that Philly would jump at getting him given their LB woes.

Definitely. I like him, think he would help us, and feel that SILB is definitely a position of need. He would be a luxury pick there for us, though, so I like him as trade bait.

 

[Chopper0080]

.... but, I do want him on the board when we pick.

I have the feeling that Philly would jump at getting him given their LB woes.

Keuchly to Philly makes so much sense, but their drafting history makes you question whether they think that position is a priority in the first round. They tend to draft "impact" positions in the first round.

 

[Chopper0080]

Definitely. I like him, think he would help us, and feel that SILB is definitely a position of need. He would be a luxury pick there for us, though, so I like him as trade bait.

Yes, SILB is a need, but so many greater needs that should be filled in the first round over it.