Mock du Jour: Big Buffalo Trade

[Mitch]

First 4:

1. OAK: JaMarcus Russell, QB, LSU
2. TB (from DET): Calvin Johnson, WR, Georgia Tech
3. CLE: Brady Quinn, QB, Notre Dame
4. DET: Joe Thomas, T, Wisconsin

Arizona Cardinals trade the #5 pick and G/T Reggie Wells to the Buffalo Bills for the #12 pick, the #43 pick, the Bills' 6th round pick and TE Robert Royal (the run blocking TE the Cardinals need).

The next 7:

5. BUF (from ARI): Adrian Peterson, RB, Oklahoma
6. WASH: Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson
7. MIN: Ted Ginn, Jr., WR/PR, Ohio St.
8. ATL: LaRon Landry, S, LSU
9. MIA: Levi Brown, T, Penn. St.
10. HOU: Jamaal Anderson, DE, Arkansas
11. SF: Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville

The Cardinals Draft:

1. Adam Carriker, DE/OLB, Nebraska
2a. Justin Blalock, T, Texas
2b. Tank Tyer, NT, North Carolina St.
3. Steve Smith, WR, USC
4. Josh Gattis, S/PR, Wake Forest
5. H.B. Blades, LB, Pittsburgh
6. Renardo Foster, T, Louisville
7. Daniel Francis, CB, LSU

 

[Shogun]

Um, why take Steve Smith?

 

[SuperSpck]

Interesting.

I do have a question, is Smith of USC designed to be a Johnson replacement provided the team doesn't resign him?

Does Smith have on-field speed for that stretch that Green was looking for or is his body type/physical makeup more in line with what the team already has in Fitz/Boldin since the team will be using lots of 2 WR sets?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

1, Please do not let us take Carriker over Willis
2a. If he survives to our pick, I will be elated.
2b. Not sure how I feel about Tank yet.
3. Good value pick I guess, but I would rather see another T drafted instead.
4. I like this pick alot.

I honestly don't know enough about 5-7 to make an statement either way.

 

[lobo]

First 4:


Creative but eeeccchhh to me.

 

[kerouac9]

Well, trading out of two plateaus of talent would be a very Rod Graves kind of decision. By picking Carriker, we're forced to overpay for "the best of what's left."

There's no chance Ginn goes to Minnesota. They already have him in the form of Troy Williamson. And Ginn isn't a Top 10 pick, anyway.

Does anyone project Carriker to OLB in the NFL? He's 6'6", 280 lbs defensive end. I think you're confused about the kind of player this kid is. He can play inside our outside in a 4-3, but he's a 3-4 DE, not OLB.

If you're looking for mid-first-day DEs to convert, look at Jarvis Moss, Victor Abiamiri (if this kid ends up in New England, he could be a Pro Bowl player), Anthony Spencer, LaMarr Woodley, Jay Moore (a great 4th round choice), Quentin Moses (a third-round option), Marquies Gunn, etc. For a late-round flier, take a look at Jason Trusnik or Nu'u Tafisi.

 

[Mitch]

The Cardinals have strongly indicated they want to take 2 defensive linemen in this draft. I think a trade down to #12 is feasible for the Cardinals...they want the extra picks...and they figure that at #12 there will be good defensive linemen there (possibly Amobi Okoye, Adam Carriker, Alan Branch, perhaps even Jamaal Anderson).

Carriker is a perfect fit for the Cardinals...he's made to order as a 4-3 DE and a 3-4 DE. He's a tough, high energy player with pass rushing skill.

At #38...if Blalock is gone...I think they will take NT Tank Tyler here with the intention of taking T Tony Ugoh from Arkansas at #43.

Tyler is, pound for pound, the strongest player in the draft. He's a perfect fit as well because he can play 4-3 DT and is an ideal 3-4 NT.

Blalock and Ugoh are both maulers...Russ Grimm would be happy with either one of them. Adding Renardo Foster later is a real bonus.

WR Steve Smith is one of the most intriguing players in the draft because he has a knack for getting open in the seams. Yes, he would be the heir apparent to Bryant Johnson as the team's #3 WR...and Whiz wants to play 4 WR sets in passing situations, so Smith would see plenty of action this year as the #4 WR....as he and Anquan Boldin would line up in the slots with Larry Fitzgerald and Bryant Johnson wide.

Josh Gattis is a speedy, rangy safety who can help in the nickel and be a special teams standout as a punt returner and gunner.

H.B. Blades is a good fit as a 3-4 ILB...he's an instinctive player who snuffs plays out...not a real speedster, but in the 3-4 he'd have an easier time getting to his sideline.

Francis is a very good athlete who was a special teams ace at LSU. In time he could earn time at CB.

 

[JeffGollin]

Smith has shot up the charts (often ahead of teammate Jarrett). He's a smaller route runner whose forty time was surprisingly good. He'd fit our need for a #3 or #4 WR with the speed and separation explosion to compliment Fitz and Q.

Carriker's a good "big" DE (who'd be added to our pool of UT/LDE's for the 3-4 like Dockett and Cooper). But he's not quite on the cusp of the "red chip" talent category.

The logical argument for trading down and getting Carriker figures to be that we'd pick up Blalock and Tank Tyler in round two. A couple of concerns about this:

1. There's no guarantee Blalock will be available (many mocks have Blalock and Staley being drafted in the first round).

2. Tyler has off the field issues that need to be addressed. I'd almost rather risk taking Louis Leonard in the middle rounds than use up a pick on the Tankster this high.

Conclusion - We'd be sacrificing the opportunity to draft Thomas, L Brown, Willis, Okoye or any other elite prospect in order to draft Carriker, take a risk that Blalock will be there and another risk on a DT with "issues." I'm not crazy about that scenario.

Here's an even more complicated scenario involving Wells.

A. We trade up to #2 for Wells and our #5.

B. We then proceed to trade down; first to #4 (so that TB can get C Johnson. Of course, this assumes that Big Al decides to stay with Russell). The reason it might work is that we don't have to drive as hard a bargain as Detroit. In exchange, we swap top second round picks (our #38 for their #35 for possible "Blalock insurance")with TB and pick up their #64 pick late in the second round. (I'm guessing that Detroit would hold out for TB's #35 rather than their #64). We wind up with #4, #35 and #64.

C. If we can't make another trade down, we'd either take Thomas or L Brown with our #4 and have a shot at someone like Blalock, Spencer, Gonzalez or Meriweather with our #35 and someone like D Harris, Patrick, Buster Davis or other guys who might slip through the cracks at #64 and our own #69 picks.

D. But why not go for broke and try to trade down one more time with a team who wants Quinn or Peterson? Minnesota, Atlanta and Miami at #7, 8 or 9 would be prime candidates. Atlanta has two picks (#39 and #44) in the second round. Miami has a #40 and the Vikes a #41.

But if everyone considers the price of a 2nd round pick to trade up & get Peterson or Quinn to be too high, there's always the 3rd round. Miami has #71, Minny #72 and the Falcones #75.

The risk in trading from #4 to #7, #8 or #9 would be that we might lose out on both top tackles (Thomas or L Brown) but should that unlikely event occur, we'd still be in position to get one of the other top players - Willis, Okoye, Branch, Landry etc. We could then use our #35, #64, #69 and either a #39 - #44 or a #71 - #75 pick to load up on very good 2nd and 3rd round prospects.

We'd still get our blue chipper or red chipper with our top pick while adding two extra 2nd or 3rd round picks.

Convoluted, but it could work.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The Cardinals have strongly indicated they want to take 2 defensive linemen in this draft. I think a trade down to #12 is feasible for the Cardinals...they want the extra picks...and they figure that at #12 there will be good defensive linemen there (possibly Amobi Okoye, Adam Carriker, Alan Branch, perhaps even Jamaal Anderson).

Carriker is a perfect fit for the Cardinals...he's made to order as a 4-3 DE and a 3-4 OLB. He's a tough, high energy player with pass rushing skill.

At #38...if Blalock is gone...I think they will take NT Tank Tyler here with the intention of taking T Tony Ugoh from Arkansas at #43.

Tyler is, pound for pound, the strongest player in the draft. He's a perfect fit as well because he can play 4-3 DT and is an ideal 3-4 NT.

Blalock and Ugoh are both maulers...Russ Grimm would be happy with either one of them. Adding Renardo Foster later is a real bonus.

WR Steve Smith is one of the most intriguing players in the draft because he has a knack for getting open in the seams. Yes, he would be the heir apparent to Bryant Johnson as the team's #3 WR...and Whiz wants to play 4 WR sets in passing situations, so Smith would see plenty of action this year as the #4 WR....as he and Anquan Boldin would line up in the slots with Larry Fitzgerald and Bryant Johnson wide.

Josh Gattis is a speedy, rangy safety who can help in the nickel and be a special teams standout as a punt returner and gunner.

H.B. Blades is a good fit as a 3-4 ILB...he's an instinctive player who snuffs plays out...not a real speedster, but in the 3-4 he'd have an easier time getting to his sideline.

Francis is a very good athlete who was a special teams ace at LSU. In time he could earn time at CB.

1st, when have the Cards said that they wanted to draft 2 defensive linemen? In fact, if they draft two linemen, it better be on the offensive side of the ball.

2nd. Carriker is not a perfect fit for the Cards as it stands now. The Cards should draft Willis, who immediately steps in at OLB and makes a huge impact. Willis, Hayes, and Dansby makes a great trio, and would make the eventual move to the 3-4 much easier.

3rd. I think that if Blalock is gone, that they should draft Ugoh before Tank.

4th. I agree with you on the Smith/Gattis picks still.

5-7 I still don't know enough about them to comment on.

 

[Mitch]

1st, when have the Cards said that they wanted to draft 2 defensive linemen? In fact, if they draft two linemen, it better be on the offensive side of the ball.

2nd. Carriker is not a perfect fit for the Cards as it stands now. The Cards should draft Willis, who immediately steps in at OLB and makes a huge impact. Willis, Hayes, and Dansby makes a great trio, and would make the eventual move to the 3-4 much easier.

3rd. I think that if Blalock is gone, that they should draft Ugoh before Tank.

4th. I agree with you on the Smith/Gattis picks still.

5-7 I still don't know enough about them to comment on.

How is Carriker not a perfect fit? He's a strong side DE who gets after the QB like a madman. Check him out in the Senior Bowl, for example. He was by far the best DE there.

I have no problems taking Willis, as I think he's going to be superb. He can play outside in the 4-3 and inside in the 3-4.

However, the LB that I think Whiz and Co, would want even more is Paul Posluszny, because he's a more physical player than Willis. Poz could play SLB, allowing Dansby to play WLB...and in the 3-4 Poz could slide inside next to Hayes, thus keeping Dansby on the perimeter.

Of all the LBs in the draft, I think POz is the best fit for the Cardinals.

I agree dream...it make be wiser to take Ugoh before Tyler...but I think the Cardinals have 3-4 Ts picked out that they like in this draft and the NT prospects in this draft are real thin.

 

[Duckjake]

Carriker is not a perfect fit for the Cards as it stands now. The Cards should draft Willis, who immediately steps in at OLB and makes a huge impact. Willis, Hayes, and Dansby makes a great trio, and would make the eventual move to the 3-4 much easier.

What will make this draft most interesting is that we don't know which way the Cards will go on defense. There is a completely different group of players they would take if they go 3-4 than 4-3. I would think that if they are determined to go 3-4 they'd want more picks because they'll need more new guys, especially at LB to fit the 3-4 scheme.

 

[TheCardFan]

First 4:

The Cardinals Draft:

1. Adam Carriker, DE/OLB, Nebraska
2a. Justin Blalock, T, Texas
2b. Tank Tyer, NT, North Carolina St.
3. Steve Smith, WR, USC
4. Josh Gattis, S/PR, Wake Forest
5. H.B. Blades, LB, Pittsburgh
6. Renardo Foster, T, Louisville
7. Daniel Francis, CB, LSU

Why trade Reggie Wells?
Why not take Patrick Willis...Carriker is not a stud.
Blalock is a G.
I like the Foster pick.

 

[kerouac9]

1) We have our ILBs for the 3-4, in Dansby, Hayes, and Beisel. If we get another guy, it'll be a depth player.

2) We're wasting a pick on Carriker if you're taking him to rush the passer. 3-4 DEs rarely rush the passer. We have a pretty solid group of 3-4 DEs right now.

3) What we don't have is a good 3-4 OLB. That's where Gaines Adams would fit in.

4) I think Smith compares to Anquan Boldin, and could end up being of similar value. He's on the spectrum of Boldin to Bobby Engram as a chain-moving slot WR. I'd actually like to see him on the Bengals. I think he'd excel there.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

How is Carriker not a perfect fit? He's a strong side DE who gets after the QB like a madman. Check him out in the Senior Bowl, for example. He was by far the best DE there.

I have no problems taking Willis, as I think he's going to be superb. He can play outside in the 4-3 and inside in the 3-4.

However, the LB that I think Whiz and Co, would want even more is Paul Posluszny, because he's a more physical player than Willis. Poz could play SLB, allowing Dansby to play WLB...and in the 3-4 Poz could slide inside next to Hayes, thus keeping Dansby on the perimeter.

Of all the LBs in the draft, I think POz is the best fit for the Cardinals.

I agree dream...it make be wiser to take Ugoh before Tyler...but I think the Cardinals have 3-4 Ts picked out that they like in this draft and the NT prospects in this draft are real thin.

I think that Carriker is not the best fit for the Cards because as we all know, we are scary thin at LB. We need more LB's that DE's at this point, and contrary to what Whiz & Co. are saying, Barry/Okefor are going to have a hard time transitioning to the 3-4. We need linebackers in the worst way. Watson/Clancy will do fine manning the middle, and Dockett will be fine on one of the sides. Berry/Okefor can do the job on the other.

Who does that leave for the LB's? POZ would be a good fit for the Cards, but the draft picks that they have won't let that happen. He is definitely a reach a 5, and 12, and he will be long gone at 38.

The Willis pick makes the most sense at 12 for the Cards.

 

[lobo]

Convoluted, but it could work.[/quote]

You must have had quite a buzz on to figure that one out. It's easier to keep our fingers crossed and hope Thomas is there then proceed to best DB and LB in the next two rounds.

 

[Mitch]

The interesting thing is...

SF loves Carriker...if they take him over Okoye...the Cards could take Okoye (4-3 UT and 3-4 NT) at #12...and instead of Tank Tyler in the 2nd round, at #38 or #43, go for DEs Charles Johnson or Anthony Spencer...or Ikalaika Alama-Francis instead.

1. Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville
2a. Charles Johnson, DE, Georgia
2b. Tony Ugoh, T, Arkansas
3. Tim Shaw, LB, Penn. St.
4. Josh Gattis, S, Wake Forest
5. Johnnie Lee Higgins, WR, UTEP (slot WR)
6. Mansfield Wrotto, G, Georgia Tech
7. Deon Anderson, FB, Connecticut

 

[Denny Green Fan]

Peterson told Peter King he thinks he is going to the Browns. They asked Phil Savage about it last night on NFL network and he said Peterson and Quinn wants to go to Cleveland

 

[vinnymac]

Mitch, we are the only ones on this board that show Carriker any love on this board. If the Cardinals want to draft D-line with their first pick, Carriker is the man. The only thing is. I don't think Carriker gets past the 49ers. The 49ers are in desparate need of D-lineman as well and so are the rams. Better believe the Rams are not going to be afraid to draft up to get their guy.

Justin Durant is a linebacker that the cardinals need to look at, because he played some 3-4 in college. Scouts have him as a poor man Timmons. Carriker teammate, Stewart Bradley, is another linebacker that the cardinals need to take a look at. He has good technique, plays the run well, and good on the blitz.

I feel in the fourth Micheal Bush. The only reason his stock has dropped so much is because he had to have a second surgery on his leg. At the beginning of the 2006 season Bush was rated to go in the top ten in this year draft. It is a shame that he got injuried in the first game. IF he is there in the fourth when the cardinals pick then the cardinals have to draft him.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

Mel Kiper has Bush going to the Falcons in the third round. He also has Chris Henry going in the third round.

 

[Mitch]

Or...trade down again from #12 to #21 with Denver...they love Carriker...for the #21, CB Dominque Foxworth (made expendable by the Dre Bly trade) and Dever's first 3rd rounder #70.

The Cardinals draft:

1. Paul Posluszny, LB, Penn. St.
2a. Tank Tyler, NT, North Carolina St.
2b. Anthony Spencer, DE, Purdue
3a. Steve Smith, WR, USC
3b. James Marten, T, Boston College
4. Jay Moore, DE/OLB, Nebraska
5. Allen Barbre, T, Missouri Southern
6. Mansfield Wrotto, G, Georgia Tech
7. Andrew Shanle, S, Nebraska

Now I am buzzed!!! I would go wild for this draft. If it were up to me I'd even take Poz at #12...I love the way he plays the game...smart, tough and super competitive. Tyler's my 2nd favorite DT in this draft, behind Okoye. Spencer has future star written all over him...Smith already has tremendous chemistry with Leinart and would be a first-rate chainmover from the slot...Marten is the most under-rated tackle in this draft...go watch game tapes of this kid...he's tough and hardly ever gets beat on the edge, just as Gaines Adams. Barbre is a major sleeper...as is Wrotto...and Shanle would be another great special teams addition.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm pretty sure that Kiper has Spencer and Moss as first-round picks at this point. DEs are often overdrafted, and I doubt that you'll only see two go in the first stanza of this draft.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Or...trade down again from #12 to #21 with Denver...they love Carriker...for the #21, CB Dominque Foxworth (made expendable by the Dre Bly trade) and Dever's first 3rd rounder #70.

The Cardinals draft:

1. Paul Posluszny, LB, Penn. St.
2a. Tank Tyler, NT, North Carolina St.
2b. Anthony Spencer, DE, Purdue
3a. Steve Smith, WR, USC
3b. James Marten, T, Boston College
4. Jay Moore, DE/OLB, Nebraska
5. Allen Barbre, T, Missouri Southern
6. Mansfield Wrotto, G, Georgia Tech
7. Andrew Shanle, S, Nebraska

Now I am buzzed!!! I would go wild for this draft. If it were up to me I'd even take Poz at #12...I love the way he plays the game...smart, tough and super competitive. Tyler's my 2nd favorite DT in this draft, behind Okoye. Spencer has future star written all over him...Smith already has tremendous chemistry with Leinart and would be a first-rate chainmover from the slot...Marten is the most under-rated tackle in this draft...go watch game tapes of this kid...he's tough and hardly ever gets beat on the edge, just as Gaines Adams. Barbre is a major sleeper...as is Wrotto...and Shanle would be another great special teams addition.

I love the idea of trading down again, but instead of trading with Denver, trade with New England. What about the #12 and the #69 picks, for the #24, #28, and getting our 6th round pick back from NE?

 

[SuperSpck]

1. Paul Posluszny, LB, Penn. St.
2a. Tank Tyler, NT, North Carolina St.
2b. Anthony Spencer, DE, Purdue
3a. Steve Smith, WR, USC
3b. James Marten, T, Boston College
4. Jay Moore, DE/OLB, Nebraska
5. Allen Barbre, T, Missouri Southern
6. Mansfield Wrotto, G, Georgia Tech
7. Andrew Shanle, S, Nebraska

Could you break down what it is you like about Tyler, Spencer and Smith specifically?

I'm curious because I don't know what these players can bring to the table as Cardinals.

I do dig all the linemen. Especially guys from BC and Louisville (from one of your previous posts).

 

[kerouac9]

I love the idea of trading down again, but instead of trading with Denver, trade with New England. What about the #12 and the #69 picks, for the #24, #28, and getting our 6th round pick back from NE?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

i'm not a Carriker fan at all. If we did that trade i would like our draft to look like this:
1-Alan Branch
2a-Blalock or Sears
2b-David Harris
3-Quentin Moses
4-Kenny Scott
5-Dallas Sartz
6-Andrew Carnahan
7-Conrad Bolston