Mock du Jour: Big Buffalo Trade

[dreamcastrocks]

Thanks for being so articulate.

 

[TheCardFan]

How about stay at #5 and...

1) Joe Thomas OT
2) Charles Johnson DE
3) Rufus Alexander OLB
4) Doug Free OT
5) Steve Breaston KR/PR
7) Garrett Wolfe RB

 

[Vermont Maverick]

First 4:

1. OAK: JaMarcus Russell, QB, LSU
2. TB (from DET): Calvin Johnson, WR, Georgia Tech
3. CLE: Brady Quinn, QB, Notre Dame
4. DET: Joe Thomas, T, Wisconsin

Arizona Cardinals trade the #5 pick and G/T Reggie Wells to the Buffalo Bills for the #12 pick, the #43 pick, the Bills' 6th round pick and TE Robert Royal (the run blocking TE the Cardinals need).

The next 7:

5. BUF (from ARI): Adrian Peterson, RB, Oklahoma
6. WASH: Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson
7. MIN: Ted Ginn, Jr., WR/PR, Ohio St.
8. ATL: LaRon Landry, S, LSU
9. MIA: Levi Brown, T, Penn. St.
10. HOU: Jamaal Anderson, DE, Arkansas
11. SF: Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville

The Cardinals Draft:

1. Adam Carriker, DE/OLB, Nebraska

Interesting scenerio, Reggie Wells and Buffalo makes sense due to the UFA offer that Buffalo made and the Cards matched last year. It wouldn't be my choice to trade Reggie, but this is potentially viable, especially with the coaches moving him back to guard for the spring practices.

Mitch, I always enjoy your posts and the thought you bring to them. This Adam Carriker thing baffles me, however. Three weeks ago, you were all over Patrick Willis with the 5 pick. Now, with the 12 pick, and Willis still available in your scenerio, and the fact that the Cards are looking at the 3-4, thus needing MORE linebackers - you are suggest Adam Carriker? Huh?

DE is the deepest position in this draft, and not a high need position, nor would I see Carriker as best available at this point.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Interesting scenerio, Reggie Wells and Buffalo makes sense due to the UFA offer that Buffalo made and the Cards matched last year. It wouldn't be my choice to trade Reggie, but this is potentially viable, especially with the coaches moving him back to guard for the spring practices.

Mitch, I always enjoy your posts and the thought you bring to them. This Adam Carriker thing baffles me, however. Three weeks ago, you were all over Patrick Willis with the 5 pick. Now, with the 12 pick, and Willis still available in your scenerio, and the fact that the Cards are looking at the 3-4, thus needing MORE linebackers - you are suggest Adam Carriker? Huh?

DE is the deepest position in this draft, and not a high need position, nor would I see Carriker as best available at this point.

good post.

 

[Bobcat]

First 4:

1. OAK: JaMarcus Russell, QB, LSU
2. TB (from DET): Calvin Johnson, WR, Georgia Tech
3. CLE: Brady Quinn, QB, Notre Dame
4. DET: Joe Thomas, T, Wisconsin

Arizona Cardinals trade the #5 pick and G/T Reggie Wells to the Buffalo Bills for the #12 pick, the #43 pick, the Bills' 6th round pick and TE Robert Royal (the run blocking TE the Cardinals need).

The next 7:

5. BUF (from ARI): Adrian Peterson, RB, Oklahoma
6. WASH: Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson
7. MIN: Ted Ginn, Jr., WR/PR, Ohio St.
8. ATL: LaRon Landry, S, LSU
9. MIA: Levi Brown, T, Penn. St.
10. HOU: Jamaal Anderson, DE, Arkansas
11. SF: Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville

The Cardinals Draft:

1. Adam Carriker, DE/OLB, Nebraska
2a. Justin Blalock, T, Texas
2b. Tank Tyer, NT, North Carolina St.
3. Steve Smith, WR, USC
4. Josh Gattis, S/PR, Wake Forest
5. H.B. Blades, LB, Pittsburgh
6. Renardo Foster, T, Louisville
7. Daniel Francis, CB, LSU

Are you nutz...???

BOBCAT

 

[Mitch]

Interesting scenerio, Reggie Wells and Buffalo makes sense due to the UFA offer that Buffalo made and the Cards matched last year. It wouldn't be my choice to trade Reggie, but this is potentially viable, especially with the coaches moving him back to guard for the spring practices.

Mitch, I always enjoy your posts and the thought you bring to them. This Adam Carriker thing baffles me, however. Three weeks ago, you were all over Patrick Willis with the 5 pick. Now, with the 12 pick, and Willis still available in your scenerio, and the fact that the Cards are looking at the 3-4, thus needing MORE linebackers - you are suggest Adam Carriker? Huh?

DE is the deepest position in this draft, and not a high need position, nor would I see Carriker as best available at this point.

Yeah, Vermont, but I was predicting what the Cardinals will do...not what I would do...the one where we trade down twice is the one that I would prefer, as all of those players are ones that I really really like.

The Cards have said they want to take 2 defensive linemen...so I was following their lead on that one. I also have a hunch that there are o-linemen beyond Thomas, Brown and Staley that the Cards are high on...which has me thinking that they may not draft an o-lineman in the first round.

All this said, Carriker is high on many draft team's boards. He's a lot like Patrick Kearney---tall, quick and aggressive on the edge...only Carriker likes to play LDE.

SprSp: Tank Tyler is super strong---he blew away all the weightlifting records at NC St. What I have liked about him most is I've seen him take over games late when the game is on the line, by blowing his man into the backfield and getting to the QB in a flash. He's a little inconsistent and is only 6'2"...so he won't likely be a first rounder. But I think he's be a steal at #38...and great UT/NT, who will finally give the Cards an interior pass rush, in addition to stifling the opponent's running game.

Spencer is likened to Roosevelt Colvin...he's an edge rusher and playmaker, who would wreak havoc on the weakside. He needs to get stronger versus the run...which John Lott could help.

Smith is a slot WR, flanker type, who was very productive at USC and had great chemistry with Matt Leinart. He didn't get the press that Jarrett got...but anyone who has watched the Trojans over the past three years knows that Smith has been the most clutch receiver on the team. He has a knack for getting open...good set of moves and he's slippery up the seams. And he's scored 17 TDs over the last three years, many of them on skinny posts, which makes him a good option to have in the red zone and in converting third downs.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Yeah, Vermont, but I was predicting what the Cardinals will do...not what I would do...the one where we trade down twice is the one that I would prefer, as all of those players are ones that I really really like.

The Cards have said they want to take 2 defensive linemen...so I was following their lead on that one. I also have a hunch that there are o-linemen beyond Thomas, Brown and Staley that the Cards are high on...which has me thinking that they may not draft an o-lineman in the first round.

All this said, Carriker is high on many draft team's boards. He's a lot like Patrick Kearney---tall, quick and aggressive on the edge...only Carriker likes to play LDE.

SprSp: Tank Tyler is super strong---he blew away all the weightlifting records at NC St. What I have liked about him most is I've seen him take over games late when the game is on the line, by blowing his man into the backfield and getting to the QB in a flash. He's a little inconsistent and is only 6'2"...so he won't likely be a first rounder. But I think he's be a steal at #38...and great UT/NT, who will finally give the Cards an interior pass rush, in addition to stifling the opponent's running game.

Spencer is likened to Roosevelt Colvin...he's an edge rusher and playmaker, who would wreak havoc on the weakside. He needs to get stronger versus the run...which John Lott could help.

Smith is a slot WR, flanker type, who was very productive at USC and had great chemistry with Matt Leinart. He didn't get the press that Jarrett got...but anyone who has watched the Trojans over the past three years knows that Smith has been the most clutch receiver on the team. He has a knack for getting open...good set of moves and he's slippery up the seams. And he's scored 17 TDs over the last three years, many of them on skinny posts, which makes him a good option to have in the red zone and in converting third downs.

Again, I have not seen anything from the Cards stating that they want 2 defensive linemen. Link?

 

[kerouac9]

All this said, Carriker is high on many draft team's boards. He's a lot like Patrick Kearney---tall, quick and aggressive on the edge...only Carriker likes to play LDE.

Kearney was selected 30th overall. Not 15th. Kearney likes to play LDE, too.

 

[perivolaki]

At #38...if Blalock is gone...I think they will take NT Tank Tyler here with the intention of taking T Tony Ugoh from Arkansas at #43.

Tyler is, pound for pound, the strongest player in the draft. He's a perfect fit as well because he can play 4-3 DT and is an ideal 3-4 NT.

I don't understand all the love for Tyler. I've read a lot of reports that say he was great against inferior competition but got overwhelmed and frustrated by better players. That coupled with some off field problems spells bust to me.

 

[Chainthroer]

I do not like going down to #12, when you have Peterson, Adams, Landry, Brown, Anderson, and Okoye off the board. That is, unless I had a crystal ball and knew that Patrick Willis was going to be available. If we have the oppurtunity to trade down, it should be no lower than a deal with Miami for #9.

 

[JeffGollin]

Posluszny is an enigma. Going into the offseason, he was thought to be a slightly lighter but faster version of AJ Hawk.

But he didn't test all that well, and his rating is said to have slid (to somewhere between the Giants at #20 and the first or second NE pick (#24 and #28).

So here's the dilemma: He's said to have 2nd round athleticism but very high 1st round intangibles (tough, finds the ball, sure tackler, team leader). Do you place a high priority on those intangibles and draft him higher in the first round? Or do red flags go up?

A couple of other OT things I just thought of:

- Most teams are better at scouting certain positions than others. The Cards used to be deadly drafting RB's but started to fall off during and after the Buddy era. Same thing after the Sharpe and Tootie Robbins draft. After that (since Buddy R), we've had trouble drafting really good offensive linemen. Ever since Sully came here (and after he left), we've been very good at drafting wideouts.

- Certain pairs of teams make for better trading partners than others. The Cards have always had good trading relationship with the Jets, NO and (I seem to recall) New England. I'm sure this is true with regard to other NFL teams. (For example, most AFC East teams uncharacteristically seem to have no problems trading within their division).

 

[kerouac9]

Tyler isn't an NT. He's big and strong, but he plays a narrow base and is more of a one-gap penetrator and disruptor. Such a player might mesh well with Darnell Dockett in a one-gap attacking scheme like what Pendergast would probably like to run. But he'd be a wasted pick in the transition to a 3-4.

The Sporting News compares him to Gerard Warren.

 

[WildBB]

I do not like going down to #12, when you have Peterson, Adams, Landry, Brown, Anderson, and Okoye off the board. That is, unless I had a crystal ball and knew that Patrick Willis was going to be available. If we have the oppurtunity to trade down, it should be no lower than a deal with Miami for #9.

I like the idea of Thomas at 5 obviously. If not then Peterson, then probobly Adams. Or trade with Miami to take Brown. No further than that.

If we take Peterson or Adams we'll need an Ot in the 2nd for sure and that means we'll pass up the best OLB's and CB's in this draft MTL.

I'm hearing buku good things about the Michigan ILB Harris if he's there when we pick at our #38. He's probobly on parr with Willis or right in that company allmost. I know we'd rather have the WSLB slot filled in the 4-3, but he'd be awsome in the 3-4 too.

The reason I don't like Adams as much is that we'll be able to get good/servicable DE's right into our 4th round pick.

If Thomas is gone and Peterson available, I definately go that way however.

I really like the Hawaii kid in the 3rd BTW. I hope he's there. May be wishful thinking though - at least it's a high 3rd so (cross fingers).

If we go OT first, then LB or DE/LB in the 2nd seems the best way to go, so I'm not opposed to getting Brown either. That would answer alot of questions for us. But with maybe Blaylock being available when we pick 2nd (?). I don't think there is such a huge dropoff between them.

So this is my prefered draft:

1- Peterson - RB
2- Blaylock - OT
3- Alama-Francis - DE/OLB or J. Marten - OT
4- Quincy Black - OLB or T. Shaw -OLB
5- C. J. Gaddis - CB

Alternate would be:

1- Brown - OT
2- Woodley - DE/OLB or T. Crowder - DE
3- J. Durant - ILB or B. Davis - ILB
4- T. Shaw - OLB or K. Scott - CB

I won't be surprised to see trades on draft day. But if these guys are there when we pick we'd be idiotic IMO to trade down.

Sorry if it's confusing. This whole draft is somewhat.

 

[Scot1]

The big problem with Mitch's strategy is that it doesn't solve our problem at OT, even if we accept that Carriker can do the OLB job in the 3-4 (but what about LB when we're in 4-3?). Two problems with Blalock are that he's likely to be gone (top guard, is gone in most mocks), especially troubling since the strategy relies on him to solve the OT problem. And second, he's a great guard, but a little questionable as a tackle. Profilers (War Room, etc.) are iffy about agility, ability to handle speed rushers, etc. Could we have another LD on our hands (not personality but real skill set)?

Foster is a lump, and Sears and Marten both have even bigger trouble with speed rushers, plus others. If we can't get Thomas, I sure wouldn't trade past Brown, and if I did, I'd trade down so that getting Staley is reasonable and odds-on.

A separate question that no one, even coach interviews, has addressed (that I've seen): Why are they putting Dansby at ILB in the 3-4 rather than OLB? I thought he was somewhat small for ILB, and was mobile enough to be a good OLB.

 

[kerouac9]

A separate question that no one, even coach interviews, has addressed (that I've seen): Why are they putting Dansby at ILB in the 3-4 rather than OLB? I thought he was somewhat small for ILB, and was mobile enough to be a good OLB.

Because he's really small to be an OLB in a 3-4, which we're converting to. Check out the sizes of Joey Porter, DeMarcus Ware, and Shawne Merriman, and then go look at Dansby's size. No way.

 

[WildBB]

Because he's really small to be an OLB in a 3-4, which we're converting to. Check out the sizes of Joey Porter, DeMarcus Ware, and Shawne Merriman, and then go look at Dansby's size. No way.

How big is Ware? I thought Dansby's about his size.

 

[kerouac9]

Ware's 6'4", 257.

Dansby's 6'4", 240.

 

[perivolaki]

DE is the deepest position in this draft, and not a high need position, nor would I see Carriker as best available at this point.

It's deep if you're looking for a traditional 4-3 end. If you're looking for a 3-4 end it there aren't many servicable ones out there.

Carriker is really the perfect 3-4 end. He has that perfect size, 6' 5" 295, and is stout against the run and won't get pushed off the line of scrimmage. He is a very good pass rusher for a guy that size playing that position. He had a great Senior Bowl.

He also is a high character guy that loves the game, gives his all, and plays through injuries. He may not be a superstar but this guy would be a very very safe first round pick.

 

[Garthshort]

Dreamstocks' Question

In response to Mitch's claim that the team wanted to draft two DL's, he asked where did that come from? I believe I heard it on one of the Rod Graves videos, speaking about the draft.

 

[Redsz]

Because he's really small to be an OLB in a 3-4, which we're converting to. Check out the sizes of Joey Porter, DeMarcus Ware, and Shawne Merriman, and then go look at Dansby's size. No way.

I'd have to disagree with you here, K9.

NFL.com has Dansby listed as 6'4 240.

Joey Porter is only 6'3 250, Kamerion Wimbley is 6'3 245 and Clark Haggans is 6'4 243. Those are three good OLB's from teams that use the 3-4 who aren't 260-270lbs. I think Dansby could work on the inside and outside IMO.

Personally, I think moving Dansby to ILB allows the teams best players on the field. If Dansby was at OLB, Beisel starts at ILB and Berry doesn't start on the outside.

Berry, Dansby, Hayes, Okeafor > Dansby, Beisel, Hayes, Okeafor IMO.

 

[JeffGollin]

Garth - I usually have my antennae tuned for tidbits of revealing info hidden between the lines of what folks like Graves or Wiz say.

What I remember hearing Rod say was that he wanted to establish a tougher, more physical presence at point of attack. He wasn't specific about how he wanted to accomplish it (i.e. via a DE, a DT or a SLB or MLB - or whether he meant one, two or more players).

My interpretation of what Rod said was that it probably would translate to a NT or a MLB. Others have interpreted it to mean we're going to draft a DE and some assume it would be a "big" DE like Carriker. But, as you know, around draft time talk is cheap. I don't think we'll really know what he meant until after he drafts the players.

 

[Mitch]

Garth - I usually have my antennae tuned for tidbits of revealing info hidden between the lines of what folks like Graves or Wiz say.

What I remember hearing Rod say was that he wanted to establish a tougher, more physical presence at point of attack. He wasn't specific about how he wanted to accomplish it (i.e. via a DE, a DT or a SLB or MLB - or whether he meant one, two or more players).

My interpretation of what Rod said was that it probably would translate to a NT or a MLB. Others have interpreted it to mean we're going to draft a DE and some assume it would be a "big" DE like Carriker. But, as you know, around draft time talk is cheap. I don't think we'll really know what he meant until after he drafts the players.

Jeff: RG clearly stated in the interview: "We'd like to draft two defensive linemen."

Usually when the Cards say things like this, they follow up on it.

 

[kerouac9]

I'd have to disagree with you here, K9.

NFL.com has Dansby listed as 6'4 240.

Joey Porter is only 6'3 250, Kamerion Wimbley is 6'3 245 and Clark Haggans is 6'4 243. Those are three good OLB's from teams that use the 3-4 who aren't 260-270lbs. I think Dansby could work on the inside and outside IMO.

Personally, I think moving Dansby to ILB allows the teams best players on the field. If Dansby was at OLB, Beisel starts at ILB and Berry doesn't start on the outside.

Berry, Dansby, Hayes, Okeafor > Dansby, Beisel, Hayes, Okeafor IMO.

Wimbley was a rookie last season. I'll bet that he adds 5-10 pounds this offseason. Haggans plays on the other side of the defense. 10 lbs is a lot in the NFL. Look at the size of DeMarcus Ware and Shawne Merriman.

I agree with you that if Dansby's going to play in the new 3-4 defense, he's going to have to play ILB.

 

[vinnymac]

I would love to have Carriker, but as long as the players the cardinals pick work out that is all that matters.