Monday Evening QB

Mitch

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What to do from here:

1. I was actually quite encouraged by Derek Anderson's play yesterday, obviously until the interception. There's no question that the ball comes out of his hand so much faster and with greater steam than it does from Hall's. And there were times he threw with some touch like the pass he threw over the CB and underneath the FS to Breaston up the left side.

What I started to think yesterday is that Whiz could start to build the offense around DA's strength, which is throwing the ball downfield. He's not a good dinker and dunker. Late in the game, every time he threw short over the middle didn't you cringe? The thing is, throwing over the middle wasn't necessary...the intermediate and deep routes were available all game long.

Thus...with DA at QB, put more emphasis on the running game, with the idea that when we pass via play action or straight drops, we attack downfield...the only short dink passes being safety valves and RB, WR or TE screens...which DA threw well as evidenced by his TD to Fitz.

It's shocking that Whiz is still deliberating over whom to start. And Whiz could have offered higher praise for DA in his presser...which DA deserved...and expecially if Whiz is ever going to help DA turn the corner. Whiz looked completely soured on him.

2. Hightower should return as the starter and should be the starter until Wells proves he is an equal blocker and pass receiver. Hightower has run well this year. The fumbles have been costly, but at some point THT has to correct this. I believe he can. The big difference to me as well is...THT runs with no fear and his pad level is lower...BW runs half-scared at times, almost tiptoes and runs straight up, which is why he got planted on his keister and is now nursing a sore back.

3. The Bucs beat up the Cards' skill players and were the much more physical team on defense yesterday. They punished Breaston, LSH and Wells. One could make the argument that the most consistent, sure-tackling and disciplined safety on the field yesterday was rookie SS Cody Grimm. And between Ronde Barber, Geno Hayes and Barrett Ruud, man those guys lay a licking.

4. The Cardinals' defensive line's inability to dominate a beat-up makeshift Bucs' o-line was---aside from the turnovers---the most costly development in the game. It's just so hard to imagine that with the talent the Cardinals have up front and with 62,000 fans screaming and exhorting them on play after play that the defensive line didn't exert itself nearly the way it should have. If you gave the defensive linemen 1/4 of the intensity and passion that the fans gave yesterday the Cardinals would have taken control of this game, especially after the offense gave the team the lead twice, once in each half...only to watch Freeman and the Bucs respond with long, immediate and demoralizing TD drives.

5. What's particularly disturbing about DRC and Rhodes yesterday...their quitting on plays that wound up burning them, almost as if they were sure Freeman wouldn't or couldn't connect on the deeper passes. On the Benn play, for example, Rhodes was in perfect position to turn and sprint to stay behind Benn. Instead, he allowed Benn to run right into him and then blow past him...again, it looked like Rhodes had no belief that Freeman was going to burn him on that play and slowed down rather than sped up.

6. What a difference Steve Breaston makes for this offense. It's almost always at least 120-140 yards better with him in the game. Breaston's play yesterday was inspirational...as was that awesome leaping sideline catch.

Yet, like so many of the Cardinals, Breaston looked like he was taking way more hits and exterting far more energy than he bargained for.

7. That said, it seems this team more than most team does not relish the phsycial aspects of the game the way winning teams do. They always seem to want the easy way out...which in games like this make the difference between winning and losing. They got lucky versus the Raiders and should have learned their lesson...but these guys are so fickle, they don't seem to learn lessons, nor do they ever seem to carry momentum from one game to another. A lot of it is on the players, but a lot of it is how enabled and spoiled they are by the coaches.

Hate to say it...but this is why the team will do now shows for games---they are soft...dreadfully soft.

8. The Cardinals have to find a way to keep Daryl Washington on the field...he's too talented to be relegated to spot duty. Hayes was nice surprise..,and Lenon nas been steady, tough and reliable. But, Washington has at times been lightning in a bottle...which is what this team needs, especially when the OLBers are slow and sluggish. I sure would like to see what would happen if Washington and Wilson are moved around on passing situations and sent after the QB. Stack the edges...storm the A gaps...get them after it.

9. Look at how many young players the Bucs are playing and leaning heavily on. Rookies don't always need to be coddled...think of the rookies that made a huge impact for the Bucs yesterday: Mike Williams, Arrelious Benn, Cody Grimm, LeGarrette Blount...in addition to all the young linemen they played and a second year QB.

10. The Cardinals' sideline...too much laughing and fraternizing...not nearly the right emotion...and the only coach with any semblance of fire and passion is the S & C coach, John Lott. The rest of the coaches look like chaperones for a high school dance.
 
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MadCardDisease

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What to do from here:

1. I was actually quite encouraged by Derek Anderson's play yesterday, obviously until the interception. There's no question that the ball comes out of his hand so much faster and with greater steam than it does from Hall's. And there were times he threw with some touch like the pass he threw over the CB and underneath the FS to Breaston up the left side.

What I started to think yesterday is that Whiz could start to build the offense around DA's strength, which is throwing the ball downfield. He's not a good dinker and dunker. Late in the game ,every time he threw short over the middle didn't you cringe? It wasn't necessary...the intermediate and deep routes were available.

Thus...more emphasis on the running game, with the idea that when we pass via play action or straight drops, we attack downfield...with the only short dink passes being safety valves and RB, WR or TE screens.

It's shocking that Whiz is still deliberating over whom to start. And Whiz could have offered higher praise for DA in his presser...which DA deserved...and expecially if Whiz is ever going to help DA turn the corner. Whiz looked completely soured on him.

I totally agree with this. The Max Hall experiment failed. Clearly the kid is not ready to be a NFL starter. DA is our best and only option at this point with the NFC West still in reach.

There has to be a way to mix the in the running game with play action and patterns that best suit DA. DA has to be the most frustrating QB to watch ever. One minute he looks like a probowler and the next he looks like a rookie.
 

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Mitch..Great post. You always use good insight on what the team should do.

A couple of points.

1) I agree and it disturbs me that Whiz doesn't go with DA instantly. First it will build is confidence and let our team who to rally around. DA is by far the best option and I have said MANY MANY times....We need to go deep when passing with his skill set. I don't understand why we don't even go jump ball with Fitz a few times. He proved he make that catch. Breasten did yesterday. Max Hall should never see the field again and in fact should be dropped to 3rd string. But if Max Hall starts...Whiz is dumber than I ever imagined.

2)The part you said about DRC and Rhodes. You know what....You play like you practice. I bet in practice our QB's complete that like 5% of the time so they don't have to play stellar defense. Just like you said...they acted like Freeman wouldn't get the ball on target.
 

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What to do from here:


2. Hightower should return as the starter and should be the starter until Wells proves he is an equal blocker and pass receiver. Hightower has run well this year. The fumbles have been costly, but at some point THT has to correct this. I believe he can. The big difference to me as well is...THT runs with no fear and his pad level is lower...BW runs half-scared at times, almost tiptoes and runs straight up, which is why he got planted on his keister and is now nursing a sore back.


7. That said, it seems this team more than most team does not relish the phsycial aspects of the game the way winning teams do. They always seem to want the easy way out...which in games like this make the difference between winning and losing. They got lucky versus the Raiders and should have learned their lesson...but these guys are so fickle, they don't seem to learn lessons, nor do they ever seem to carry momentum from one game to another. A lot of it is on the players, but a lot of it is how enabled and spoiled they are by the coaches.

Hate to say it...but this is why the team will do now shows for games---they are soft...dreadfully soft.


10. The Cardinals' sideline...too much laughing and fraternizing...not nearly the right emotion...and the only coach with any semblance of fire and passion is the S & C coach, John Lott. The rest of the coaches look like chaperones for a high school dance.

Very good post. The above are the thoughts I don't agree with.

If we agree that we should run the ball more and use DA for play action and long throws then Beanie would be my choice, but by a rather slim margin.

Many have posted that Whiz needs to better understand who his QB's are and stop calling a game that Warner would excel with. I agree with this thought process as well. I like that Whiz wants his Offense to run at a high level like it can and should but our QB's are not capable at this point.

The list of HC's that don't jump up and down etc is rather large with many of them having HOF careers. Walsh, Landry, Billicheck, Dungy and.....you get the point. Some screamers have been sucessfull as well so my point is every HC needs to project their natural demeanor. I have seen Whiz celebrate (not like Wade Phillips goofy grin cheerleader kinda thing) and I have seen him walk over to players and congratulate them etc.
 

82CardsGrad

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What to do from here:

1. I was actually quite encouraged by Derek Anderson's play yesterday, obviously until the interception. There's no question that the ball comes out of his hand so much faster and with greater steam than it does from Hall's. And there were times he threw with some touch like the pass he threw over the CB and underneath the FS to Breaston up the left side.

What I started to think yesterday is that Whiz could start to build the offense around DA's strength, which is throwing the ball downfield. He's not a good dinker and dunker. Late in the game, every time he threw short over the middle didn't you cringe? The thing is, throwing over the middle wasn't necessary...the intermediate and deep routes were available all game long.

Thus...with DA at QB, put more emphasis on the running game, with the idea that when we pass via play action or straight drops, we attack downfield...the only short dink passes being safety valves and RB, WR or TE screens...which DA threw well as evidenced by his TD to Fitz.

It's shocking that Whiz is still deliberating over whom to start. And Whiz could have offered higher praise for DA in his presser...which DA deserved...and expecially if Whiz is ever going to help DA turn the corner. Whiz looked completely soured on him.

It's been said that there are guys who can only perform when expectations are lowered. Perhaps this is DA?? Should he start again (which I am in favor of), he simply might not be the type of guy who can handle the added pressure that comes with being the starter...

2. Hightower should return as the starter and should be the starter until Wells proves he is an equal blocker and pass receiver. Hightower has run well this year. The fumbles have been costly, but at some point THT has to correct this. I believe he can. The big difference to me as well is...THT runs with no fear and his pad level is lower...BW runs half-scared at times, almost tiptoes and runs straight up, which is why he got planted on his keister and is now nursing a sore back.

Could be a mute point as Beanie got banged up again yesterday... THT is now, by far the healthier of the two as Beanie is still recovering from knee surgery and now a bad back...

3. The Bucs beat up the Cards' skill players and were the much more physical team on defense yesterday. They punished Breaston, LSH and Wells. One could make the argument that the most consistent, sure-tackling and disciplined safety on the field yesterday was rookie SS Cody Grimm. And between Ronde Barber, Geno Hayes and Barrett Ruud, man those guys lay a licking.

I would agree with this... though we did lay a good hit on Blount when he fumbled. 'Course, he came back from that hit and ultimately killed us...

4. The Cardinals' defensive line's inability to dominate a beat-up makeshift Bucs' o-line was---aside from the turnovers---the most costly development in the game. It's just so hard to imagine that with the talent the Cardinals have up front and with 62,000 fans screaming and exhorting them on play after play that the defensive line didn't exert itself nearly the way it should have. If you gave the defensive linemen 1/4 of the intensity and passion that the fans gave yesterday the Cardinals would have taken control of this game, especially after the offense gave the team the lead twice, once in each half...only to watch Freeman and the Bucs respond with long, immediate and demoralizing TD drives.

Nothing new here... we haven't see our d-line have the ability to control the line of scrimmage in a very long time, dating back to last year. Campbell has literally disappeared... Dockett remains inconsistent at best. B-Rob is putrid. Branch - see Dockett. Iwebema is too damn small and too damn slow. Williams is the only one that gives you any hope....

5. What's particularly disturbing about DRC and Rhodes yesterday...their quitting on plays that wound up burning them, almost as if they were sure Freeman wouldn't or couldn't connect on the deeper passes. On the Benn play, for example, Rhodes was in perfect position to turn and sprint to stay behind Benn. Instead, he allowed Benn to run right into him and then blow past him...again, it looked like Rhodes had no belief that Freeman was going to burn him on that play and slowed down rather than sped up.

Hey - Rhodes showed you can block a FG and NOT be offsides! :D Actually, on the long pass play that he was burned on (happened right in front of me), he had great position on the WR the whole way, until just at the last second, Kerry turned one way (he may have guessed?) and turned his back to the WR, while the WR turned inside and grabbed huge separation from Rhodes... Other than that, I think Rhodes played another solid game. DRC is a clueless, free-lancing punk. Been saying this for 2 straight years now. I can't stand the kid. He thinks he's Deon Sanders, yet, in truth, he can't even hold Deon's jock. I'm you or someone else can do this - I know I can't - but, DRC must lead the league in giving up 3rd down conversions... He SUCKS!

6. What a difference Steve Breaston makes for this offense. It's almost always at least 120-140 yards better with him in the game. Breaston's play yesterday was inspirational...as was that awesome leaping sideline catch.

Yet, like so many of the Cardinals, Breaston looked like he was taking way more hits and exterting far more energy than he bargained for.

How in the world have we not locked him up?? All he does is give 110% on every single play. All he does is make big catch after big catch... He easily and consistently gets the greatest separation versus any other WR on our team. What a great game he played yesterday, particularly when you factor in it was his first game back after knee surgery... Luv the kid!


7. That said, it seems this team more than most team does not relish the phsycial aspects of the game the way winning teams do. They always seem to want the easy way out...which in games like this make the difference between winning and losing. They got lucky versus the Raiders and should have learned their lesson...but these guys are so fickle, they don't seem to learn lessons, nor do they ever seem to carry momentum from one game to another. A lot of it is on the players, but a lot of it is how enabled and spoiled they are by the coaches.

Hate to say it...but this is why the team will do now shows for games---they are soft...dreadfully soft.

Seriously... other than Dockett and Wilson (who is not at all a sure tackler as much as he's a big hitter...), who else plays with the sort of toughness we see from other teams? Branch did this against the Hawks but wasn't even seen yesterday... Perhaps Hayes can bring some toughness and sure-tackling now that he's back. Toler show signes of being a solid tackler. But last I checked there are 11 guys on defense. We have 2 or 3 that can be characterized as solid, sure tacklers... that's it!

8. The Cardinals have to find a way to keep Daryl Washington on the field...he's too talented to be relegated to spot duty. Hayes was nice surprise..,and Lenon nas been steady, tough and reliable. But, Washington has at times been lightning in a bottle...which is what this team needs, especially when the OLBers are slow and sluggish. I sure would like to see what would happen if Washington and Wilson are moved around on passing situations and sent after the QB. Stack the edges...storm the A gaps...get them after it.

A HUGE weakness for sure is our LB situation... Washington is by far the most exciting player in that sad group. And Hayes will hopefully come back and add his tough, sure tackling qualities up the middle. Other than that, we are completely void at the LB position...

9. Look at how many young players the Bucs are playing and leaning heavily on. Rookies don't always need to be coddled...think of the rookies that made a huge impact for the Bucs yesterday: Mike Williams, Arrelious Benn, Cody Grimm, LeGarrette Blount...in addition to all the young linemen they played and a second year QB.

It's time... BOTH Washington and Williams need to start and play the majority of the snaps. D-Wash has been starting and seeing much more playing time, but still not enough... Williams just needs to be on the field as much as possible.

10. The Cardinals' sideline...too much laughing and fraternizing...not nearly the right emotion...and the only coach with any semblance of fire and passion is the S & C coach, John Lott. The rest of the coaches look like chaperones for a high school dance.

I mentioned this a few weeks back (in a thread where I believe you too raised the issue about Whiz and Davis being too similar). If Whiz were not the OC on top of being the HC, I would think he would have more time to dedicate to walking the sidelines, talking to players, keeping them focused and engaged... I've seen Belicheck do this and I wouldn't exactly call him a Pete Carroll type rah-rah guy. You don't have to be Pete Carroll, but it sure would help if we had our HC available to be more fired up when it's required. Instead, he's too damn caught up in calling passing plays on first down on the Tampa 20 yard line with just over 2 mins to play!! :bang:
 

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What to do from here:


10. The Cardinals' sideline...too much laughing and fraternizing...not nearly the right emotion...and the only coach with any semblance of fire and passion is the S & C coach, John Lott. The rest of the coaches look like chaperones for a high school dance.


One guy our team can't loose is MITCH!!!! Always thoughtful non emotional posts that make us (me) think and generate plenty of other good posts.
 
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Russ Smith

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Beanie admitted to Somers he thinks he's running too upright and that he needs to run lower. So hopefully that's something he can change. he's a tall RB so that's always a concern.

The thing with Hightower is fumbles are so costly, yes he pass blocks better but if you choose your RB on who pass blocks better then you're a passing team and we should not be a passing team with our QB situation.

Even whiz gets this it's why on that first drive after the nice run by Beanie he went to the pass, he gets that defenses think Beanie in run, Tim in pass. Whiz actually had success crossing them up several times including the TD run by Hyphen. But he clearly doesn't trust Tim to not fumble despite him saying he wasn't afraid to run Tim at the end of the game.

I think his comment regarding DA was understandable, Max is a rookie who was staring guys down, TB's players even said they'd been preparing for that all week. DA isn't a rookie, he should not be staring guys down at this point in his career, but he does. ANd above all else he should know at that point in the game 2 things, protect the ball, and don't take a sack that might put you out of FG range. But DA told Somers he thought he threw to the right spot, so I'm not sure what Whiz is supposed to do if into triple coverage is what his veteran QB thinks is the "right spot."

I do like your point about changing the system to fit DA. We need to run more, if teams bring up their safeties, then you throw over the top and DA has the arm to do that. That really ought to be the focus going forward because it's clear Max can't be the starter and it's clear we can't trust DA in an offense that throws as much as we do, especially over the middle. Aside from the picks his staredowns get players drilled.
 

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Steve Breaston--when healthy--has been a revelation this season. He's going to deserve the five-year, $40 million contract he gets from someone next offseason.

He's perfect for the quick-passing, fast break offense that Whis clearly wants to run. The irony is that Larry Fitzgerald is perfect for the deep-passing play action offense that Whis needs to run, but doesn't want to. Part of the problem is that I'm not sure Anderson can execute the offense with the way that Fitz wants/can get to the ball.
 

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:mulli: Sad to say it is true. :D I think Whiz should give the team the rest of the week off and just play the game Sunday. I'm sure the guys are really wore out after yesterday!
 

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I totally agree with this. The Max Hall experiment failed. Clearly the kid is not ready to be a NFL starter. DA is our best and only option at this point with the NFC West still in reach.

There has to be a way to mix the in the running game with play action and patterns that best suit DA. DA has to be the most frustrating QB to watch ever. One minute he looks like a probowler and the next he looks like a rookie.

I do not think Max will ever be an NFL QB. You cannot coach height, hand size, arm strength. He has the will but you cannot overcome what he was born with. We sure cannot afford to keep him on our team next year. The only reason to keep him this year is if Anderson gets hurt he is the only QB who has played.
 

Sandan

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It's shocking that Whiz is still deliberating over whom to start. And Whiz could have offered higher praise for DA in his presser...which DA deserved...and expecially if Whiz is ever going to help DA turn the corner. Whiz looked completely soured on him.

What makes you think this ?

What he said was he doesn't need to make that decision yet and NFL coaches give nothing away they don't have to.

It says nothing about if he has made it
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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What makes you think this ?

What he said was he doesn't need to make that decision yet and NFL coaches give nothing away they don't have to.

It says nothing about if he has made it

Fine. If YOU think Whiz's indecision is good, fine. I don't. We disagree.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
 

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I'd be more comfortable with DA if he was throwing the ball about 20 times a game instead of 30+. I like the idea of using him mostly for throwing deep to keep the safeties back and running more but I think Whiz is determined to keep running the same offense that we had with Warner.
 

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This team needs a hard-ass defensive coach & a ILB who leads by nastiness ala Ray Lewis/Patrick Willis that always challenges his teammates to not accept mediocrity!!! As Mitch says, this team is soft & needs to add some grit on both sides of the ball.
 

MrYeahBut

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This team needs a hard-ass defensive coach & a ILB who leads by nastiness ala Ray Lewis/Patrick Willis that always challenges his teammates to not accept mediocrity!!! As Mitch says, this team is soft & needs to add some grit on both sides of the ball.


I'd like somebody to slap that sh** eating grin off DRCs grille
 

splitsecond

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Williams has been under-respected by damn near every team he has played. There is a reason I started him in FF yesterday. He is a good receiver, and teams almost ignore his ability. Much like what happened with Miles Austin last year.
 

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Great stuff again Mitch-----I too believe that DA is the best QB on the roster now. I believe that Whiz may have trouble starting him, because if K-9 and Chris Sanders were right about the handling of Leinart, and the announcement of DA as our starter, the brass may not want DA starting because of his contract incentives tied to starting. They may be forcing Whiz' hand at starting Max Hall, then bringing in DA to relieve him. Too bad if that is the case, because DA is far and away more ready for this game than Max Will be more than a year from now.

How would you like to see a starting D-line of DD, Watson, and Branch, with Williams spelling Watson, and with Campbell spelling Branch and DD. I believe that this combo would let us do a much better job of stopping the run up the middle, and that IF those guys ever get to do this together, they just may turn this Defense on. My recollections of this are that good stuff, that happens because you made it happen, breeds more of the same. I would really like to see this Defense playing hard, and loving it, because the talent is there. Something like that might even energize DRC, although, if he can't get energized by watching Toler play, I don't know if he can even BE energized.

I too liked seeing Hayes back in the middle. He brought some needed strength to the linebacking corps, and a little spark too. He and Lenon could be a formidable pair at the S & W ILB positions. I would then like to see Washington and Wilson used like you said, up front and off the edges. Damn-----this defense could really be good, if it just had one real coach who could, (or would), make them mad enough to take their frustrations out on somebody, or at least light a fire under them.
 

cardpa

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So to me the real question is if you can't get DRC to play up to his abilities then what do you do with him long term?

Do you trade him for some help at other positions (God knows we have needs) or do you just let him walk after his contract is up.

It doesn't seem like Henderson can get him motivated.
 

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Great post Mitch as always :)

I would just like to say that I agree with you about THT entirely. Plus with Whiz benching him as he did and the flip flop of qb. it sends a message of 'make a mistake and you don't play' this makes players play concervative and even scared. you can't play pro sports like that you have to let your talent flow and know that your coach has your back.
i'm not saying that a player mistakes can be ignored but we seem to be getting into a one strike and your out.
with one statement Whiz says Hall will make mistakes and we will have to live with it and let him learn and then in the next breath he says mistakes are unacceptable and we can't stand them.
this mess is on Whiz so pick one and play him for crying out loud my personal choice is DA give him the right offensive calls and we can win with him in this division.
but whichever is going to be the QB make the choice and stand by your decision.
 

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Great post Mitch as always :)

I would just like to say that I agree with you about THT entirely. Plus with Whiz benching him as he did and the flip flop of qb. it sends a message of 'make a mistake and you don't play' this makes players play concervative and even scared. you can't play pro sports like that you have to let your talent flow and know that your coach has your back.
i'm not saying that a player mistakes can be ignored but we seem to be getting into a one strike and your out.
with one statement Whiz says Hall will make mistakes and we will have to live with it and let him learn and then in the next breath he says mistakes are unacceptable and we can't stand them.
this mess is on Whiz so pick one and play him for crying out loud my personal choice is DA give him the right offensive calls and we can win with him in this division.
but whichever is going to be the QB make the choice and stand by your decision.

Could it also be that because of the massive realignment of the football team that CKW is trying different combination's to try to get something that works?

The situations with Lutui and Dan Williams would tend to indicate that it is more likely your scenario is correct. On the other hand the handling of Andre Roberts would suggest otherwise.

Puzzling season no matter how you look at it.
 

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I agree that Max Hall experiment has failed. Unfortunately, DA is the only option rest of the season. He showed improvement this game except for that game costing int in the end. But the game was actually lost by two pick-sixes by Hall.

Hightower must start... he is a more complete back. But he must eliminate his fumbling. I'm also pissed at Beanie's comments complaining he only got two carries in the second half... WTF?
 

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