More details and opinion on offer to Fitz

[Shane]

I'll stand by my semi-guaranteed statement. I don't see how there is any way that they can justify a 11M cap number for Al Johnson and Terrence freaking Holt last year, but 14.6M is somehow too much to have to worry about.... not buying it.

I can pretty much guarantee that Fitzgerald does not get cut. Traded, maybe. Not cut. I can say this confidently, with no insider knowledge into the Cards front office.

We can "semi-disagree" on this one.

I dont think he will be cut at all. But if he got hurt in a non-football related injury he would still be on the team and the team would have the rights to him and he wouldnt get paid a dime. Ala Calvin Pace and his arm injury.

Your first paragraph holds no water IMO because we werent handcuffed while trying trying to sign more players last year. This year when we need to try and improve the team and get more depth we are hindered because of Fitz contact. Last year we were not hindered by anything. Holts contract was smart because he didnt pan out and now we got almost 4 mill in cap relief by cutting him.

 

[red desert]

No matter how many time you spew that BS Fitz isnt holding all the leverage.

The only one spewing BS is you, IMO.

Listen up:

Fitz is absolutely holding all the cards on this one. No if's ands or buts.
And other than the weak ass "he could get injured" line, the Cards hold absolutely no leverage.

If the deal gets done, its only because Fitz wants to get it done and continue playing with the Cards.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I dont think he will be cut at all. But if he got hurt in a non-football related injury he would still be on the team and the team would have the rights to him and he wouldnt get paid a dime. Ala Calvin Pace and his arm injury.

Your first paragraph holds no water IMO because we werent handcuffed while trying trying to sign more players last year. This year when we need to try and improve the team and get more depth we are hindered because of Fitz contact. Last year we were not hindered by anything. Holts contract was smart because he didnt pan out and now we got almost 4 mill in cap relief by cutting him.

I know all about being injured on or off of the field, could "void" the contract. I don't think that Fitz is worried about "that" scenerio as much as he could be/should be. I think that he feels just fine being in the position that he is in now. Again, with more leverage than the front office.

We are hindered by the way that the contract was written in good faith based on performance. If backloaded/incentive based deals, aren't good, then they shouldn't have write them in that way.

The amount of blame that is place on Fitz at this time seems unwarranted. No one was complaining about this type of stuff last year to avoid it. Just as much blame should be placed on the FO for not resigning him last year. We had more money to do that last year. We didn't have to pay bonuses early. We didn't have to use roster bonuses, instead of signing bonuses, etc.

 

[Shane]

The only one spewing BS is you, IMO.

Listen up:

Fitz is absolutely holding all the cards on this one. No if's ands or buts.
And other than the weak ass "he could get injured" line, the Cards hold absolutely no leverage.

If the deal gets done, its only because Fitz wants to get it done and continue playing with the Cards.

Blah blah blah blah.... Its ok to be wrong really it is! They both have leverage anyway you slice it. Deal with it dude!

 

[Shane]

The amount of blame that is place on Fitz at this time seems unwarranted. No one was complaining about this type of stuff last year to avoid it. Just as much blame should be placed on the FO for not resigning him last year. We had more money to do that last year. We didn't have to pay bonuses early. We didn't have to use roster bonuses, instead of signing bonuses, etc.

I dont agree that Fitz doesnt have in his head that it is in his best interest to get a contract done. Not for a minute. Especially when you are talking the kind of money thats at stake.

I dont just blame Fitz. I absolutely blame the FO as well if not more. But Fitz is no innocent school girl either. I agree with the quoted.

 

[DaisyCutter]

I dont think he will be cut at all. But if he got hurt in a non-football related injury he would still be on the team and the team would have the rights to him and he wouldnt get paid a dime. Ala Calvin Pace and his arm injury.

Your first paragraph holds no water IMO because we werent handcuffed while trying trying to sign more players last year. This year when we need to try and improve the team and get more depth we are hindered because of Fitz contact. Last year we were not hindered by anything. Holts contract was smart because he didnt pan out and now we got almost 4 mill in cap relief by cutting him.

Can you name some examples of when this has happened, and happened to all-star players? Pace got in a fight with a friend during an in-season bye week and was shoved through a plate-glass window. Thomas Jones broke his hand slamming his fist into the refrigerator when he was told he would be benched for a guy who has since averaged about 400 yards per season. Do you have any non-Cardinal-related examples? The guy who tore his knees playing in an NFL-sponsored beach football game?

Out of the 1000 some players who have passed through the league, that's maybe four examples. None of them are superstars. If Fitz is smart, he (or his agent) likely has a massive insurance policy in case this happens. So, technically speaking, Fitz doesn't have all the leverage in this negotiation, but you don't have to be an actuary to think that Fitz has most of it.

Oh, and BTW, Calvin Pace, who had been a waste of space up until that point, still got paid his whole salary that year.

 

[Shane]

Can you name some examples of when this has happened, and happened to all-star players? Pace got in a fight with a friend during an in-season bye week and was shoved through a plate-glass window. Thomas Jones broke his hand slamming his fist into the refrigerator when he was told he would be benched for a guy who has since averaged about 400 yards per season. Do you have any non-Cardinal-related examples? The guy who tore his knees playing in an NFL-sponsored beach football game?

Out of the 1000 some players who have passed through the league, that's maybe four examples. None of them are superstars. If Fitz is smart, he (or his agent) likely has a massive insurance policy in case this happens. So, technically speaking, Fitz doesn't have all the leverage in this negotiation, but you don't have to be an actuary to think that Fitz has most of it.

Oh, and BTW, Calvin Pace, who had been a waste of space up until that point, still got paid his whole salary that year.

Kellen Winslow Jr. is the only other one that coems to mind. It doesnt matter how many you can name or recall. The bottom line is that its a very real possabillity. Oh and Im 100% certain you are wrong about Paces salary.

 

[Stout]

I thought 14.6M is his cap figure? The 17M is next year's figure.

Nope. The total cap number on the books for Fitz this year is $16,592,500. His base salary is 14,592, but we're on the hook this year for 2 million in bonuses as well. This is pulled directly from Joe's spreadsheat. I think the reason all the reporters keep throwing around 14.6 million is because that's what we have to actually pay him. What he actually costs us against the cap is more, which is what we the fans should be worrying about.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I dont agree that Fitz doesnt have in his head that it is in his best interest to get a contract done. Not for a minute. Especially when you are talking the kind of money thats at stake.

I dont just blame Fitz. I absolutely blame the FO as well if not more. But Fitz is no innocent school girl either. I agree with the quoted.

I do believe that he has motivation to get it done, for his own, and the team's benefit.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Nope. The total cap number on the books for Fitz this year is $16,592,500. His base salary is 14,592, but we're on the hook this year for 2 million in bonuses as well. This is pulled directly from Joe's spreadsheat. I think the reason all the reporters keep throwing around 14.6 million is because that's what we have to actually pay him. What he actually costs us against the cap is more, which is what we the fans should be worrying about.

I stand corrected then. I haven't looked at his sheet for a while.

If 16.6M is what is cap figure is....even more leverage for him.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Kellen Winslow Jr. is the only other one that coems to mind. It doesnt matter how many you can name or recall. The bottom line is that its a very real possabillity. Oh and Im 100% certain you are wrong about Paces salary.

True enough on Winslow. But do you really think that Larry Fitzgerald is doing donuts in a Community College parking lot on his brand new motorcycle? Again, it's all about the actuarial tables, and they're not in your favor. It doesn't happen very often, and Fitz takes great care of his body.

I was wrong about Pace's salary. I think that they didn't go after his signing bonus.

 

[Shane]

Oh and Daisycutter you were absolutely wrong about Paces salary. They even went after the prorated bonus.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2225914

 

[Shane]

True enough on Winslow. But do you really think that Larry Fitzgerald is doing donuts in a Community College parking lot on his brand new motorcycle? Again, it's all about the actuarial tables, and they're not in your favor. It doesn't happen very often, and Fitz takes great care of his body.

I was wrong about Pace's salary. I think that they didn't go after his signing bonus.

No sir I dont believe that he is doing outlandish crap such as that. But just look at the % that people will be involved in some sort of major accident that cause an injury in their lifetime. They are pretty damned good. I believe he has leverage no doubt. But far from all of it like people (red desert) claim.

It is in his best interest to get a new deal and around 30-35 million GUARANTEED! Because the 32 mill he has on the table isnt GUARANTEED in any way.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

No sir I dont believe that he is doing outlandish crap such as that. But just look at the % that people will be involved in some sort of major accident that cause an injury in their lifetime. They are pretty damned good. I believe he has leverage no doubt. But far from all of it like people (red desert) claim.

It is in his best interest to get a new deal and around 30-35 million GUARANTEED! Because the 32 mill he has on the table isnt GUARANTEED in any way.

They are only offering him 25 right now. If they were offering 30-35, I think he would have been signed by now.

 

[Shane]

They are only offering him 25 right now. If they were offering 30-35, I think he would have been signed by now.

We dont know that. We really dont.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

We dont know that. We really dont.

True.

It "seems" like a Cards offer. I'll take that stereotype and run with it, even if these aren't the "same 'ol Cards."

 

[Stout]

I stand corrected then. I haven't looked at his sheet for a while.

If 16.6M is what is cap figure is....even more leverage for him.

Only if he and his agent are truly and completely trying to hold the team hostage. He only gets PAID the 14.6. He counts against the cap for 16.6. Now, if they want to be ***** and say 'look at how high our cap number is...ooh, 2 million higher even...you'd better pony up!' then yes, it's more leverage. Fortunately, that's a good way to turn negotiations acrimonious and resentful, and I don't think they want to do that.

 

[Shane]

Only if he and his agent are truly and completely trying to hold the team hostage. He only gets PAID the 14.6. He counts against the cap for 16.6. Now, if they want to be ***** and say 'look at how high our cap number is...ooh, 2 million higher even...you'd better pony up!' then yes, it's more leverage. Fortunately, that's a good way to turn negotiations acrimonious and resentful, and I don't think they want to do that.

They cant use that 2 mill as leverage because its money that Fitz has already pocketed.

 

[DaisyCutter]

No sir I dont believe that he is doing outlandish crap such as that. But just look at the % that people will be involved in some sort of major accident that cause an injury in their lifetime. They are pretty damned good. I believe he has leverage no doubt. But far from all of it like people (red desert) claim.

It is in his best interest to get a new deal and around 30-35 million GUARANTEED! Because the 32 mill he has on the table isnt GUARANTEED in any way.

I'm not an actuary, but I kind of doubt that the tables say that the likelihood is greater than, say, 0.5% (5 out of 1000 people) who drive 20 miles or fewer each day to work (all off-peak traffic times) will get involved in a serious accident in any period of 24 months (which is the only period that matters in your "negotiation").

I think that $30-35 million guaranteed on a four-year contract gets it done. But these numbers, which obviously aren't conjured out of thin air, don't make it seem like that. The other issue, of course, is whether we're talking about a new four-year contract, or four years on top of the current two that he has left.

 

[ThunderCard]

Maybe I am the only one not really concerned ... Even Fitz at 16.4 Million is not all that bad and if we do want a long term contract I believe the guaranteed salary should be at least 35 million. Also I don't buy into Fitz is killing our cap. We have 102 million spent with Dansby's tag /// with a cap at 123 million. We still have 21 million under the cap so why are we blaming Fitz for our problems. It seems like another ploy not to spend to the cap and or shell out front loaded contracts that make no sense.

 

[Stout]

They cant use that 2 mill as leverage because its money that Fitz has already pocketed.

That's...what I just said

I only said they can use it as leverage because it raises his cap number higher and makes it harder for us to sign FA and/or re-sign Pace.

 

[jefftheshark]

To be a true fan of the Cardinals, I guess you need to be a CPA, a transactional attorney and a Freudian Psychologist. Being able to peer into the future wouldn't hurt either.

My take on the situation is that Fitz has the leverage right now and that the downside risk to his his doing nothing while letting negotiations take place, is minimal. If I was his agent, I would be doing the same thing.

I think that it is funny for people to actually suggest that Fitz should take a pay cut "for the good of the team". How many here would volunteer to take a pay cut so that their employer could hire some additional personnel? All of you who raised their hands to this question are welcome to come to work for me.

I am on record as not being a fan of Graves, but even I think we need to see how this whole thing plays out before we castigate the man. So far, if he screwed up anything, it was that he actually made a good choice when he drafted Fitz.

JTS

 

[Stout]

Maybe I am the only one not really concerned ... Even Fitz at 16.4 Million is not all that bad and if we do want a long term contract I believe the guaranteed salary should be at least 35 million. Also I don't buy into Fitz is killing our cap. We have 102 million spent with Dansby's tag /// with a cap at 123 million. We still have 21 million under the cap so why are we blaming Fitz for our problems. It seems like another ploy not to spend to the cap and or shell out front loaded contracts that make no sense.

You aren't concerned with one player making up 1/6 of our total cap? I guess you aren't concerned with driving a team into the ground either, because that is poor football business logic.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You aren't concerned with one player making up 1/6 of our total cap? I guess you aren't concerned with driving a team into the ground either, because that is poor football business logic.

Allowing a player to take up 1/6 of the cap is poor football business logic.

 

[SuperSpck]

I think that it is funny for people to actually suggest that Fitz should take a pay cut "for the good of the team". How many here would volunteer to take a pay cut so that their employer could hire some additional personnel? All of you who raised their hands to this question are welcome to come to work for me.

I have volunteered that some of my co-workers take a pay cut for the good of me. Does this count?

I am on record as not being a fan of Graves, but even I think we need to see how this whole thing plays out before we castigate the man. So far, if he screwed up anything, it was that he actually made a good choice when he drafted Fitz.

JTS

I remain cautiously optimisitic, but am also becoming madingly aware of the ticking clock on the FA wall.