My 2 Cents on Levi Brown

Duckjake

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You're my man Duck.I see some good dancing on that bottom part starting with Note.All I noted is you picked the seahags to win.Nothing I can do or say can beat you man.You're one of best posters here and you have the best intentions at heart for the CARDINALS as much or more than I do.I know you only want the best for the team.Never will I ever try to take that from you.

You know I only kid with you.I hope so.I'm just glad to be here and if I've made you mad at me.I apologize.I know I post too much when I'm excited about our team really coming together.Its not even about yesterday as much as I really see an opening for us on National TV next Sunday night and Collinsworth having to eat his tounge.Even tho he graduated from Florida as a so so reciever.I've never liked him as a broadcaster.He's a nice guy but I can't put my finger on just one thing.Its a bunch of things that irk me about his style.His opinions seem to change just a little too fast as the wind blows.Must be the Bengal in him.:D

No dancing pods. That was the intention when it was posted. Just like I was getting on people for praising Warner a couple of weeks ago. For some reason our boys just perform better when we get on them.

BTW: The anti-curse, saying terrible things are going to happen to the Cards, is a longtime Cardinal fan tradition. Started by a wild man with the screen name JRein on the old AOL board. Some of those threads were really hilarious. Gollin, Zeno and others will remember. The stickman is a holdover from those days.
 

az jam

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Good post Cardsfanmd. You put some good thought into this. Its full of solid information. However you still have a long way to go to reach the daily plethora of words on the writeups that we get from Doug/Mitch.:D

I agree that this is Warner's last year. This will be Leinart's team next year for sure. That will cause change and the running game will be key as you said. I just hope that you are right and Levi becomes a top player.:thumbup:
 

SuperSpck

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Players chosen for a role they're out of position for... it's an interesting trend. Hopefully winding to a close.

I agree with you and Sho that Rolle would be good in a Tampa 2 (and to a lesser extent the man-press Jim Bates is known for).

When Pace was drafted the 3-4 was still a rarer formation. I think we were all surprised by how good he was in coverage.

Good writeup though.
 

earthsci

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...but we passed on a HOF RB to take him.
One could easily argue that we passed on the best offensive player in the NFL (AP) AND the best defensive player in the NFL (Patrick Willis) to fill a need that hasn't been filled.
 

Duckjake

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One could easily argue that we passed on the best offensive player in the NFL (AP) AND the best defensive player in the NFL (Patrick Willis) to fill a need that hasn't been filled.

Second best defensive player. CC is #1. :D
 

Vermont Maverick

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5 sacks, 5 penalties, the 2nd most QB hits allowed, the third most QB pressures allowed, and a 2.99 yards per carry off his backside in 5 games. You are right we are clearly not giving him enough credit.

He is clearly getting better then last year when he gave up 11 sacks, 8 penalties, league leader in QB hits and pressures allowed, and a 2.25 yard per carry off his backside.

Whats not to love.:sarcasm:

So he's on pace for 16 sacks and 16 penalties! Yikes.

Somebody get me that eye bulging smiley.
 

Catfish

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Just want to apologize now for the length. This definitely wasn't intended to be Mitch/Doug long :D

Levi play is the culmination of 4 factors IMO. First, he's essentially playing out of position. Secondly, Russ Grimm is overrated to begin with and coaching a scheme that isn't his IMO and doesn't require a lineman to do what he drafted Levi to do. Third, when Whiz took over the team he surely must have thought we were going to run a whole lot more. Finally, Levi was a reach because the team had painted itself into a corner.

Calvin Pace was a prototypical 3-4 OLB who was reached for AND drafted out of position. I dont know anyone who watched Wake Forest football and thought he was a first round prospect. When he didn't perform until we switched to the 3-4 he was labeled a bust. He has since proven that label to be incorrect.

Antrel Rolle fits in the same category. He came from a college program that had a very strong pass rush and called for their DBs to be very physical both at the line and in run support. His ability to press at the line and disrupt routes was fantastic. Courtesy of his strength at the LOS and the team's pass rush, he rarely had to cover his man longer than 2-3 seconds. For reasons unclear to me, he was drafted by a Cardinal team who wanted him to play 7 yards off the LOS and stick with a receiver for 5-7 seconds while the QB took his time through his progressions because there was no need to hurry against our porous pass rush. I think he is much better safety than most seem to give him credit for, but again, his skills portray him as more of a SS than a FS. Had he been drafted into a system that embraced his talents he would still be a CB (and a very good one IMO) and be earning more of that 8 mill he's making this year.

Watching Levi at Penn State you saw a few things. He was a definite road grader in the run game. He was a hard worker and a solid individual. He also was average in pass protection. He was a left tackle. Like Rolle and (to a lesser extent) Pace, he is being asked to play to his weaknesses rather than his strengths. Being switched form the left to the right is also a much bigger deal than Grimm led on to IMO. I understand that he switched sides as a pro, but Russ was also a HOFer and a guard. There is just too much muscle memory involved. That is like asking guys who have been golfing or swinging a baseball ball strictly right-handed for 15 years to suddenly switch and go at it lefty. There are going to be a super-ambidextrous few that can do it immediately, but most are going to struggle for a while or never be as good as before.

Russ Grimm came here thinking they were going to make a Pittsburgh West, but is now being asked to help duplicate The Greatest Show on Turf--in other words, he's in O-Line Coach HELL. Here is a guy who played on a bullying O-line for his entire career. He was exceptional at run blocking and that leads one to believe that he is probably better suited to teach that aspect of the position. So here we have a run-block oriented line coach teaching his guys to pass protect for 3/4 of the game. On top of this, he is literally only given 5 guys to block with 90% of the time.

The first hole in the road was losing Leonard Davis. My opinion is that it had next to nothing to do with his on-field play. He said he didn't want to be here and had shown himself to be inconsistent with his commitment and motor. I personally, dont blame LD entirely for this, as the organization was still a joke and the way the players were still being treated in comparison with players from other clubs when he got here was sad. Either which way, Whiz didn't want to set a president by paying an underachiever who publicly displayed affection for other teams(especially douchebags like Dallas:D).

When Whiz took this team over he, like most all of us, assumed Leinart would be our starter. Whiz had good intentions for Matty and tried to give him what every young QB needs to be successful, a strong running game.So here we were with no starting quality OTs on the team, two of the top 10 receivers in the league, an aging, but future HOF running back who gained over 1,000 yards the year before behind a putrid line and a young and fragile franchise QB. Logic tells you that we were going to take the best OTs available with our first 2 picks. Looking back, I should have really known there was no real chance we'd take AP. The truth is that nobody thought he would be this good or the guy would have went #1, whether the Raiders took him or traded the pick. Either which way, we should have known we were stuck with Levi.

I believe the coaching staff knew he had slow feet and thought they could counteract that by switching him to the right side and hiding him from the premium pass rushers. Because Leinart is a southpaw, they were able to say that a great RT was necessary. In reality, I believe it was an excuse to keep the media from immediately hounding them about being the first team in the history of the NFL draft to select a RT with a top 10 pick.

In the end, after this year when Warner retires and Matt takes over things will drastically change. Asking a lineman with Brown's skill-set to pass protect all day would be like having Dockett primarily play NT in our 3-4. This team is going to be so different when we're ramming the ball down your throats with Beanie and Hightower setting up the play-action bomb to Fitz. I am excited about the future, I just wish it wasn't getting in the way of the present.

VERY intuitive post CardsfanMD------I also feel that Levi is playing out of position. That being said, however, I don't see any changes in position coming before next off-season, (unless injury dictates otherwise). I think the best we can look forward to is help for Levi in some fashion. I don't even know if we will see that, given Whizenhunt's propensity for ignoring it to date.

If we do decide to help him, then I would think we may go to twin TE's more often, and hold one in to block alongside him. Barring that, we could bring in an additional lineman, or chip block with the TE's or Backs as they head out onto their pass routes. I truly believe that we need to do something here though, because Levi is clearly not living up to anyones expectations as is.

I am sure that he feels worse than any of us on this matter-----but is pretty much helpless to do much about it, having been thrown to the wolves so to speak. I can't imagine what it must be like for him to be put in this no-win position. He was a good college player, and probably could be a good pro, under the right circumstances.

(I would like to see him at LT with Leinart at QB, like what was probably anticipated when the decision was made to go with him). That would put him at his natural position, and have the same spot as a RT for a right-handed QB. Might make a big difference, especially seeing what has become of Leonard Davis after putting him in a position to excell.
 

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Grimm is supposed to be an amazing offensive line coach who will turn his group into a bunch of road graters in the running game. I'll give him a free pass on our lack of pass blocking skills, but we absolutely suck in run blocking as well. We weren't opening up any holes in the 2nd half and you can't expect Beanie or THT to do anything when they are constantly getting hit at or behind the LOS.

Doug, the problem with Levi, and no fault of his own, is not only has he just not been a good player, but we passed on a HOF RB to take him. That's a huge reason why people are so hard on Levi, it's not just he's not good, it's how insanely good Adrian Peterson is.

People would be this hard on him regardless of who we passed on. He has been horrific for a top 5 pick, regardless of any other circumstances. If anything we should be more pissed off that we passed on Ryan Harris (Denver's ROT) 3 times in that draft, who has been absolutely amazing at RT.

I hope we have a draft reminiscent of '04 because we have some serious needs on the offensive line and at OLB.
 

MrYeahBut

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I rewatched the game last night. LB is worse than I thought, at least at the point of attack. I did see him downfield a couple of times trying to block and move the pile
 
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