My opinions on recent moves...

[Phill11]

Trading Finley was good yet bad. We got a decent trade in return. Murphy seems like a Casey Fossum. Nothing special. Abercrombie seems like another guy that we'll have to wait on. He strikes out more than Sexson. The way people talk about his speed he should just bunt the ball. Hill seems like a nice pickup, but we have Hammock, Ansman, and a lot of other good catchers. Doesn't 5 guys seem like too much?

Here's MLB's Analaysis of these guys:


Reggie Abercrombie, OF
Abercrombie is one of those tremendous raw talents who you wait for the baseball skills to come through. Now 24 and in his fourth full season, the Dodgers got tired of waiting.

When everything is going right for Abercrombie, he's got five-tool written all over him. He hit a career-high 15 homers last year, his first at Double-A. He's got great speed, as evidenced by his two 40+ steal seasons and the 28 he swiped a year ago. He's a plus defensively, with above-average arm strength.



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The only problem is that Abercrombie swings and misses. A lot. He struck out 164 times in 2003 in 448 at-bats. And here's where the frustration may have set in with the Dodgers. He didn't seem to make many adjustments this year. He got a late start because of a torn ACL, but couldn't stick in Double-A, even though it was his second season there. After hitting just .173 in 41 games (and 66 K's) with Jacksonville, he was demoted to the Florida State League, where he's hit .271 with 33 strikeouts in 34 games.

Koyie Hill, C
A switch-hitter with a line-drive stroke from both sides, Hill is just about ready to contribute at the big league level, and he should get the chance in Arizona. A Team USA alum, Hill carried a .284 career average into this season and was in the process of putting up his second straight above-.300 season at Triple-A Las Vegas before the trade.

The 25-year-old, who was drafted in the fourth round out of Wichita State in 2000, already had a career-high 13 home runs this season, though that's probably his ceiling. Originally a third baseman, Hill moved behind the plate in 2001 while playing in the South Atlantic League. His overall catching skills still could use some improvement, but he could prove to be an average Major League catcher with the glove, with an above-average bat.

Bill Murphy, LHP
Bill, we hardly knew you. Less than 24 hours after being dealt to the Dodgers from the Marlins, Murphy found his way to Arizona. Murphy originally came to the Marlins as the player to be named later in the offseason deal that sent Mark Redman to Oakland. Originally taken in the third round of the famed "Moneyball" draft out of Cal-State Northridge, Murphy has moved up the ladder quickly, reaching Double-A in 2003, his first full season.

He's spent all of 2004 in Double-A with a three-pitch repertoire: fastball, curve and changeup. While his strikeout rate is excellent -- 113 (2nd in the Southern League) in 103.2 IP -- it's more because of an effective combination and mixing of his pitches, not because of overpowering stuff. All of his pitches are solid, though the irony may be that his curve might be his best pitch and the Marlins stress developing fastball/changeup pitchers in their system.

Murphy's biggest issue is his command. He's walked 59 in those 103.2 IP, and he'll have to work on throwing more strikes if he wants to succeed at the big league level. It's clearly hurt him in the Southern League; Murphy has a 4.08 ERA despite holding hitters to a .221 average. Still, Murphy threw an impressive inning at the Futures Game in Houston and the Marlins even considered him for a spot start after the All-Star break. Down the line, the competitive lefty is seen as a No. 4 or 5 starter in the big leagues, leaning closer to 5 than 4.


The Nomar to CHC seemed to fit all teams pretty well. Nomar wasn't going to stay in Boston after the season. We all know it. The thing is why does BOS want Mienkiwetz (SP). He's a good player and all, but they have to put Kevin Millar on the bench?

Anyways, nice trade for all teams involved.


But us trading RJ is absurd.

Here's a few quotes from the big guy himself....

"I'm in a boat with no oars and the perfect storm is about to hit," Randy Johnson said Saturday, looking around a clubhouse quickly depleted by the Steve Finley deadline trade and Luis Gonzalez's season-ending surgery set for Monday. "The water's getting kind of choppy."

This guy is getting to be trouble. Trade him! Unload him! Get Prospects! I'd rather have 150% giving Finley then negative RJ.

Now onto the thing I'm pretty heated about. LA Trading LoDuca.

This guy would be buried in his Dodger uniform. Why didn't we offer like Hammock, Ansman and a few others for him? This guy is a gamer. He brings it all to the field.


That's just my opinons. What ya'll think?

 

[thirty-two]

I don't blame Randy for feeling like a boat with no oars - his past few starts have either given him a no decision or a loss - due to our poor run support and other lack of fundamentals.

I am happy that we didn't trade RJ - I like how we still have that #1 all-star as the face of this organization.

Also, if Randy REALLY didn't want to be here, then he would have flat out said so in the media... "Trade me - I absolutely do not want to be here!" From my perspective it just seemed like he would be willing to go in a trade, as long as the DBacks got something good in return - but I didn't get that "Oh my god I want to leave" type feeling. I feel bad that he's stuck on a crap team (for this season at least)... but he decided on doing the extension last year (or whenever it was), he didn't make too much of a stink before the trade deadline, etc.

Also, I am sad to see Fins go, but I'm excited for the prospects we got - especially the new catcher. Hammock is OK but not quite good enough. And plus he's hurt. Brito is a good defensive catcher, but he's lacking somewhat offensively. Maybe just maybe we'll be able to sign Finley after this season, but I really wouldn't shed a tear if we didn't.

 

[green machine]

I'm glad Finley is gone, and I'm glad we got decent prospects for him.

What will happen is Terrero will play every day, and that's when we'll find out how much of a winner we are for trading Fins.

Terrero will be very good for the team, and he'll give the Dbacks second thoughts on bringing Finley back. Personally, I think it's time to move on.

 

[Evil Ash]

I'm glad Finley is gone, and I'm glad we got decent prospects for him.

What will happen is Terrero will play every day, and that's when we'll find out how much of a winner we are for trading Fins.

Terrero will be very good for the team, and he'll give the Dbacks second thoughts on bringing Finley back. Personally, I think it's time to move on.

While I agree that Terrero will help keep people's minds off of Fins not playing here for the rest of the season but I don't think it should completely stop them from looking at bringing Fins back.

Bautista will more than likely not be re-signed (I expect a waiver deal for him soon). So that only leaves us with an outfield for next year of ... Gonzo, Terrero, and ???. Fins could fill in that last spot

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

If Finley is offered arbitration by the Dodgers and we re-sign him, I'll officially dismiss this team. I have a feeling Fins is going to want a multi-year deal and with Jackson, Quentin, Terrero, and Kroeger most likely ready in 2006, what's the point in bringing Finley back? It was good while it lasted Fins, but go back to San Diego and retire.

Phil I don't know what your infatuation with Hammock and Ansman is, but they both have had their opportunities and have not capitalized. Hammock is simply not an everyday major league catcher. Period. There's a good reason why Brito was brought in here as opposed to Ansman. There's also a good reason Garagiola was "desperate" for a catcher according to many sources. The Dodger organization has punched out some solid catchers over the last twenty years, hopefully Koyie is the next.

I can see the resemblance between Murphy and Fossum although I think they're a little different. Murphy is more dominating but has control problems while Fossum is more of a control pitcher. I think both will be fine with solid coaching (and once Fossum gets his velocity back), something they won't receive under the current conditions. This team is going to need a power pitcher other than RJ at some point if it's going to make any noise before the decade ends.

They'll probably try to convert Abercrombie to a pitcher. It's a crap shoot but we only gave up Brent Mayne for him so who gives a crap?

Johnson is untradeable until the offseason so there's no point in speculating about it now. This winter's a whole other story but expect Alomar, Hillenbrand, and Bautista to clear waivers and become trade bait. I can't understand why anyone would want Alomar back, he's totally lost his range and his bat speed from the right side of the plate seems like it's in slow motion. There may be more of a market for RJ this winter anyway once some teams clear some payroll and figure out their finances.

 

[Phill11]

If Finley is offered arbitration by the Dodgers and we re-sign him, I'll officially dismiss this team. I have a feeling Fins is going to want a multi-year deal and with Jackson, Quentin, Terrero, and Kroeger most likely ready in 2006, what's the point in bringing Finley back? It was good while it lasted Fins, but go back to San Diego and retire.

Phil I don't know what your infatuation with Hammock and Ansman is, but they both have had their opportunities and have not capitalized. Hammock is simply not an everyday major league catcher. Period. There's a good reason why Brito was brought in here as opposed to Ansman. There's also a good reason Garagiola was "desperate" for a catcher according to many sources. The Dodger organization has punched out some solid catchers over the last twenty years, hopefully Koyie is the next.

I can see the resemblance between Murphy and Fossum although I think they're a little different. Murphy is more dominating but has control problems while Fossum is more of a control pitcher. I think both will be fine with solid coaching (and once Fossum gets his velocity back), something they won't receive under the current conditions. This team is going to need a power pitcher other than RJ at some point if it's going to make any noise before the decade ends.

They'll probably try to convert Abercrombie to a pitcher. It's a crap shoot but we only gave up Brent Mayne for him so who gives a crap?

Johnson is untradeable until the offseason so there's no point in speculating about it now. This winter's a whole other story but expect Alomar, Hillenbrand, and Bautista to clear waivers and become trade bait. I can't understand why anyone would want Alomar back, he's totally lost his range and his bat speed from the right side of the plate seems like it's in slow motion. There may be more of a market for RJ this winter anyway once some teams clear some payroll and figure out their finances.

Ansman was the catcher in the Futures game. He seems ready to me. Maybe it's just because he's ruling in my OOTP League. Hammock is a valuable backup. With Brito as a #3 guy I'm happy. We also have a few other guys (For heavens sake I can't remember their names).

I can't see any of these prospects we traded for making a difference. Unless some of them start to take sterious like made and become pumped up stretch arm strongs.


We need to get rid of these guys IMO:
Johnson
Alomar
Dessens
Bautista

This sounds kinda crazy, but what if we try to get Griffey and Dunn/Kearns (Whichever we can get)

We offer a deal like Johnson, Alomar, and Dessens. Maybe we add in some prospects and Bautista.

Kearns and Dunn are going to be huge. Griffey is back. And he has a good 5-6 years I think in him.

So unload those guys and get a potential all-star (HR Hitter Dunn or .300/20 Kearns). And then add veteran Griffey to balance out the salary.

The likelyness of happening: 0%. Just trying to get some discussion going.

 

[minercon]

Keep Alomar, Johnson and Bautista. None of these young guys really impress me that much. Terraro has "shone" the most . Maybe because he is new. I remember when Kato and Tracy had their first few games...they really showed promise and then the shine left. For Pete's sake, trade Cintron in the off season. That guy bugs me the most. He can't seem to stay awake out there and be alert.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Phil I don't remember Ansman in the Futures Game. Perhaps you're confusing him with our new catcher, Koyie Hill, who was on the roster and is actually regarded as a top prospect. If Murphy ever figures out his control, him and Hill should become solid contributors.

Trading Johnson for Griffey and Dunn/Kearns is probably the worst idea I have ever heard. Putting these two strikeout artists in the lineup with Sexson would basically ensure the DBacks having the most strikeouts and worst OBP in baseball.

Alomar and Bautista are gone and rightfully should be. One has decided to only show up in his contract year and even then he can't stay healthy and the other is way past his prime. Am I the only one who has noticed how pitifully slow Alomar has become from the right side? Cintron has absolutely no trade value so there's no point in even talking about it. My suggestion is waiting for Stephen Drew.

 

[Bob Chebat]

Joe Jr has completely dismantled the franchise and NOT getting a deal done for Randy Johnson was just another sign of his ineptness to refuel this team.

You have to think Randy would have bent a little more had another great opportunity come up. Organizations that come to mind are St. Louis, Chicago Cubs, maybe even the Braves.

I don't think Joe tried very hard to trade him. Based on the reports, they never really talked to Randy about getting traded. How true that really is, who knows. Randy denied all reports that the team and he were talking about him getting moved anywhere. I guess we'll never really know for sure.

However, I cannot believe that one of the contenders for a division could not put together a sweet package to bring him in. Joe Jr has been fleeced on most deals he has made. Now, the league is laughing as Randy continues to pitch for the worst team in baseball. His value will never be as high as it was this season, especially with his supporting cast.

The worst deal of the summer was the one that did not get done.

 

[Dback Jon]

I have also heard that contrary to what is being reported, Randy only ok'd being traded to one team - the Yankees. If that is true, then the deal fell apart with the Dodgers because of Randy, not Joe. That kind of limits any GM's options.

 

[Evil Ash]

His value will never be as high as it was this season, especially with his supporting cast.

I disagree. Next year his value will greatly increase due to the amount of money that teams will have to pay of RJ's contract (only approx $4 million if they wait until the trade deadline)

The majority of the teams that were intersted couldn't afford his contract as it stands now ... namely the Cardinals, Angels, and Dodgers (they wouldn't offer their best prospects due to not wanting to trade valuable players that don't make much). The Yankees were the only team that had no problem with his contract but they had NOTHING to offer in return.

The worst deal of the summer was the one that did not get done.

You wanted to get a deal similar to that of the Schilling deal? I want to be overwhelmed in a deal for the best and most dominating pitcher in baseball.

The deal that the Dodgers offered was far from overwhelming

 

[thirty-two]

You wanted to get a deal similar to that of the Schilling deal? I want to be overwhelmed in a deal for the best and most dominating pitcher in baseball.

The deal that the Dodgers offered was far from overwhelming

Great point.

I didn't want RJ to be traded at all... especially if the deal was just ho-hum.

 

[BOB_Man24]

I have also heard that contrary to what is being reported, Randy only ok'd being traded to one team - the Yankees. If that is true, then the deal fell apart with the Dodgers because of Randy, not Joe. That kind of limits any GM's options.

To me i think Randy would have accepted a trade to ANY contending team. Clearly the Angels didnt want to give away their future, and neither did the dodgers. I dont blame them for that either. Fact of the matter is that the DODGERS didnt want to give up Edwin Jackson and Jayson Werth along with Penny. Would have been a great deal for us, but THEY didnt want to do it.

Bottom line is, Joe Jr. simply wasnt shopping RJ, and the teams that wanted him didnt want to give up enough.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Ash is right on this one, the DBacks simply did not match up with any team for Randy. The Dodgers, Angels, and BoSox had financial constaints as well as key players looming in free agency and the Yankees didn't have any prospects. You can bet that there will be a market for Randy this winter but I doubt he goes anywhere. Next July is another issue altogether.

I guarantee you there will be teams that earmark money and prospects before the season starts in anticipation of possibly getting RJ at the deadline, such as what the Astros did this year in acquiring Beltran. GMs are forward thinkers and they're going to know that the DBacks will again be uncompetetitive next year and looking to deal their ace pitcher before he leaves in free agency.

EDIT - I disagree with Ash in his stance that the deal that Joe Jr thought he had with the Dodgers was not a good one. I heard what Joe wanted was Brad Penny, Edwin Jackson, Jayson Werth, and Chad Billingsley. That would have been a huge steal for the DBacks and I'm not surprised DePodesta didn't go for it.

 

[Bob Chebat]

It's time for Joe Jr to move on. No, I did not want to see another deal like the Schilling one, or even worse yet, the Sexson deal.

My point is, I cannot believe with all the contenders out there that the D-backs were not trying harder to make something happen.

The reports about where Randy would or would not go have all been contradictory, so we'll never really know what happened.

I guess as long as the checks keep rolling in, he is happy playing for a team that is 41 games under 500 and getting worse by the day. Seems to me that would be somewhat demotivational.

 

[Djaughe]

I have to say I am a little confused regarding the Dbacks financial situation - I guess they are not as desperate as the media portrays them.

I believe if they give up (trade) randy then they are saying next year is a lost cause.

 

[BC867]

... or even worse yet, the Sexson deal.

Don't you think that the Sexson deal was progressing as a good one?

A player who didn't miss one inning last season. A legitimate cleanup hitter, who was making things happen at bat, and fielding a pretty good 1B.

And drawing fans.

The Sexson injury was the problem. I wouldn't blame Management for that.

I just hope that Richie brainwashes himself that, for the rest of his career, you start a swing . . . you complete a swing.

It's just not worth it for a pitch or an at-bat to try to get your upper body moving in an opposite direction while swinging at a pitch.

It's interesting that the Brewers lost Junior Spivey for the season to injury and, surprisingly, that Lyle Overbay, who was doing so well as a line-drive hitting RBI guy, and seemed so consistent, has been in a terrible slump.

If Sexson didn't have that freak injury, and then do it again, our offense would have been alot different. I hope we re-sign him for next year.

 

[Bob Chebat]

Don't you think that the Sexson deal was progressing as a good one?

Even if Sexson would have had an MVP year, they overpaid for a guy whose contract was due to expire at the end of the season. So to answer your question, no. Injury or not, Joe got fleeced again.

 

[BOB_Man24]

Even if Sexson would have had an MVP year, they overpaid for a guy whose contract was due to expire at the end of the season. So to answer your question, no. Injury or not, Joe got fleeced again.

Maybe his contract expires at the end of the year. But you assume he doenst get injured, he produces more, the team produces more, we are actually in contention or at least the season had more upside on it. Then we have NO PROBLEM resigning him.

Now the PROBLEM is that why would he want to resign with a team that is dreadful. Had his injury not occured his FA status would not have been a problem.

 

[Espo]

Maybe his contract expires at the end of the year. But you assume he doenst get injured, he produces more, the team produces more, we are actually in contention or at least the season had more upside on it. Then we have NO PROBLEM resigning him.

Now the PROBLEM is that why would he want to resign with a team that is dreadful. Had his injury not occured his FA status would not have been a problem.

I think we should let Sexson go and we should re-sign Shea. Then we can go after a big time outfielder or numerous top pitchers that are on the market. Sexson is a huge question mark and unless we can get him for cheap i dont think we should want anything to do with him. The only way i re-sign him is if its a one year deal so we can see if he can really come back. DON'T BREAK THE BANK FOR SEXSON

 

[BOB_Man24]

I think we should let Sexson go and we should re-sign Shea. Then we can go after a big time outfielder or numerous top pitchers that are on the market. Sexson is a huge question mark and unless we can get him for cheap i dont think we should want anything to do with him. The only way i re-sign him is if its a one year deal so we can see if he can really come back. DON'T BREAK THE BANK FOR SEXSON

I agree that we definately have to look to rebuild our pitching staff. I know that Odalis Parez is going to be on the market, but my guess is that the Dodgers just moved a Lo Duca to clear up some salary space and will attempt to resign him.

My issue is, how will we get any FAs to come play for our team now?

 

[Bob Chebat]

Maybe his contract expires at the end of the year. But you assume he doenst get injured, he produces more, the team produces more, we are actually in contention or at least the season had more upside on it. Then we have NO PROBLEM resigning him.

Now the PROBLEM is that why would he want to resign with a team that is dreadful. Had his injury not occured his FA status would not have been a problem.

What is worse than the money he is making this season is what Joe gave up to get him. Like I said, they gave away the farm to get this guy. Sure, without the injury, things could have been a lot different. However, I don't think the injury makes this deal look any worse than it originally was.

I knew they gave up on Overbay way too soon. The team was still good when last season ended. Every move Joe Jr made over the winter made them worse, not better. If you are planning to rebuild, you do not trade away youth.

I am not anti-Joe Jr, although it may seem that way. I just think his time here is up and he needs to move on. This team needs to refuel and it starts there.

 

[BOB_Man24]

What is worse than the money he is making this season is what Joe gave up to get him. Like I said, they gave away the farm to get this guy. Sure, without the injury, things could have been a lot different. However, I don't think the injury makes this deal look any worse than it originally was.

I knew they gave up on Overbay way too soon. The team was still good when last season ended. Every move Joe Jr made over the winter made them worse, not better. If you are planning to rebuild, you do not trade away youth.

I am not anti-Joe Jr, although it may seem that way. I just think his time here is up and he needs to move on. This team needs to refuel and it starts there.

I agree its time to start over, though id like to think that the trade that brought this organazation down was the Schilling trade. We simply got fleeced. We attempted to get some young arms to use, but instead we made our "salary dump" look like handing 20 dollars to someone and getting 1 buck back in return. Iknow we were dumping salary, but WHAT we got in return was simply putrid.

In the Sexson trade we did give up a lot, but at least we got a player with value as a return. We really shouild have been able to trade for "trade bait" to then send off in the Sexon trade. Then it would have at least been more of a Schilling for Sexson deal instead of giving away the farm and our ACE.